The ARX Bamboozle - Cows to the Slaughter

[Stigbob]

Oh look, it's Stigbob. I wondered when you'd white-knight your way in here after I posted. Maybe you should read my first post in this thread, I'll even bold the relevant bit for you, an argument you keep avoiding, because you can't justify it.

I skim read your incessant griping since I don't value your opinions.

If you don't like the game stop playing it, if you don't like ARX don't buy them and never spend all your money on video game stuff. Any other incredibly simple things you need urgent help with ?.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here's the bottomline:

If you don't like the change into Arx, and you feel you're being ripped off, or you feel the change is an underhanded tactic to the point you no longer want to send any money to that business, you don't. You're a customer, it's your prerogative when where and how you want to spend your easily earned monies. You make this decision for yourself, and for yourself only. Other customers may have other sentiments. The sentiments of other customers are outside your wheelhouse. They will decide for themselves whether the conditions are acceptable.

 

[babelfisch]

Oh look, it's Stigbob. I wondered when you'd white-knight your way in here after I posted. Maybe you should read my first post in this thread, I'll even bold the relevant bit for you, an argument you keep avoiding, because you can't justify it.

Regarding the highlighted part, I don't get it:
'It's not about doing what is best for the game any more, it's become about doing what is best for the business, at the expense of the game.'

First, it was always about what's best for the business. That's how capitalism works. No business, no game. That doesn't mean the game needs to suffer from business because no game or unhappy customers means no business either. So following that (in my opinion indisputable ) argument, even doing everything to make your customers happy is doing what's best for business, unless just having happy customers isn't profitable.
Second, I don't see how Arx are damaging the game. Well apart from the bugs that came with it of course, but I somehow doubt that was intended. So how does the game suffer from Arx? I'd like to hear an objective argument by the way. Stuff like 'it breaks my immersion' can easily be countered by 'but some people like to earn paintjobs in game'. Arguments like 'it's wasted dev time because the effort could've gone into other areas of the game' don't count either. If you are right, and Arx are better for business, then the profits coming with it can be put into improving the game.

 

[Red Anders]

Why did I stop giving money to SWTOR? Because I ran out of money.

Now please do justify Frontier doing that to people.

Serious question, have you ever been declared bankrupt? You may want to consider debt counselling if not because it sounds like you're heading that way.

Of course, if what you mean is 'I spent the portion of my disposable income which I'd set aside for purchasing gaming cosmetics' then you don't need to bother with the counselling but might want to think about editing your drama post to make that clear.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

With the benefit of hindsight, I suppose we really should have moaned that we were forced to buy entire packs instead of individual paint-jobs that we actually wanted.

People did, and that they wanted to be able to obtain cosmetics through gameplay, and be able to preview them properly in-game before purchase.

"Frontier have changed their cosmetic shop to how players said they'd prefer to interact with the cosmetic shop. This is an exploitative disgrace designed to make them more money!"

 

[babelfisch]

People did, and that they wanted to be able to obtain cosmetics through gameplay, and be able to preview them properly in-game before purchase.

"Frontier have changed their cosmetic shop to how players said they'd prefer to interact with the cosmetic shop. This is an exploitative disgrace designed to make them more money!"

I actually do hope they make more money with the new system:
First, because it means they'll continue to support the game.
Second, because I will never understand how people can get upset about spending their money. Either they want something and buy it, or they don't. Everything else is just completely stupid.

 

[Rat Catcher]

People did, and that they wanted to be able to obtain cosmetics through gameplay, and be able to preview them properly in-game before purchase.

"Frontier have changed their cosmetic shop to how players said they'd prefer to interact with the cosmetic shop. This is an exploitative disgrace designed to make them more money!"

I really like that paint packs have been split, even if individual paints are slightly more expensive than the pack price, I also like being able to preview before buying, I even have no issue with buying a nice pack of Arx for £YY (being less than I might have paid out previously) to get cosmetics I'd like. I have 'stock' of Arx now in case I see something I'd really like (thinks... Lunar Hunter and Operator PJ) and should I not spend any, they grow a little each week.

My personal opinion is that Frontier have made a good decision, I don't know if overall the new store/Arx will bring in more revenue, but for me it has allowed a freedom in purchasing, because I buy a pack of Arx for now and the future rather than spend today, then again in a while...

 

[Cmdr Bazil Yat]

I personally like the changes. I appreciate being able to buy only the paintjobs I want.

 

[sollisb]

People did, and that they wanted to be able to obtain cosmetics through gameplay, and be able to preview them properly in-game before purchase.

"Frontier have changed their cosmetic shop to how players said they'd prefer to interact with the cosmetic shop. This is an exploitative disgrace designed to make them more money!"

you mean 'some players'? I know I never asked for a site that looks like it was designed by someone on an acid trip.

It is there to make them more money. But not my money I'm happy earning free arx for doing nothing. The way I look at it; I can't see my ship so I really don't give a toss what it looks like. Maybe the NPCs like psychedelic paint jobs?

 

[Stealthie]

People did, and that they wanted to be able to obtain cosmetics through gameplay, and be able to preview them properly in-game before purchase.

Fair comment.
I did mean to say that but it'd escaped my tiny brain by the time I'd got to the end of the sentence.

My point, though, was that we were already being "ripped off" under the system that forced us to buy entire packs for a single paint-job but we (mostly) accepted that "that's the way it is".
Now we have the opposite scenario, where - potentially - we're being "ripped off" because the price of the packs has gone up a bit... even though we no longer have to buy entire packs if we don't want to.

Just seems like FDev can't win, even when they're trying to give people more buying choices.

 

[Rat Catcher]

you mean 'some players'? I know I never asked for a site that looks like it was designed by someone on an acid trip.

It is there to make them more money. But not my money I'm happy earning free arx for doing nothing. The way I look at it; I can't see my ship so I really don't give a toss what it looks like. Maybe the NPCs like psychedelic paint jobs?

It was 'The Community'... You know, like 'The Community' all wrote an Open Letter

Having never been on an acid trip though, I am not qualified to verify your impression of the store

 

[Stigbob]

Fair comment.
I did mean to say that but it'd escaped my tiny brain by the time I'd got to the end of the sentence.

My point, though, was that we were already being "ripped off" under the system that forced us to buy entire packs for a single paint-job but we (mostly) accepted that "that's the way it is".
Now we have the opposite scenario, where - potentially - we're being "ripped off" because the price of the packs has gone up a bit... even though we no longer have to buy entire packs if we don't want to.

Just seems like FDev can't win, even when they're trying to give people more buying choices.

You are never "forced" to buy a cosmetic.

 

[Ezren]

Lol. Customer choice BAD. Alrighty.

People were asking for the ability to buy individual skins for years. When Frontier gave us what we wanted, you turned around and decided that you wanted it every way.

But I find it funny that you think being able to more specifically buy what you want is somehow against "customer choice". Logic isn't your strength.

 

[Rat Catcher]

You are never "forced" to buy a cosmetic.

Oh... so you never noticed the Lunar Hunter decal then....

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

But I'm a hypocrite because I've played SWTOR a lot, and subbed to it, and bought items with their virtual currency, and been ok with it. How can I be ok with SWTOR's virtual currency, but not Frontier's? I think the main difference is SWTOR always had (or at least always has had since I started playing it) a virtual currency, whereas Elite hasn't.

SWTOR is the only other game i've spent a fair amount of extra monies in.. and they largely seem to do it right. All the cosmetics are player tradeable, which makes all the store only stuff accessible even if you don't want to pay. I go on grinding binges there (now every few years) to buy up all the cosmetics i've missed since last playing.. to me that's more interesting than stat based gearing. Yeah the fact that people can sell the mtx items for in game credits is the main factor that gives it a pass. Its also neat how they have uses for the currency that players like me would be inclined to use as well (the collections interface and account unlocks).

The other interesting thing is there is no obfuscation with the points pricing.. you can easily work out how much you need and how much its going to cost without using a calculator.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

People were asking for the ability to buy individual skins for years. When Frontier gave us what we wanted, you turned around and decided that you wanted it every way.

But I find it funny that you think being able to more specifically buy what you want is somehow against "customer choice". Logic isn't your strength.

What's wrong with offering paintjobs individually AND as part of packs? They're not mutually exclusive you know.

You questioning my logic is a bit rich tbh.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I actually do hope they make more money with the new system:

Well, that's an interesting question. I never considered just me a valid conclusion, but now theres at least someone else who's doing the same thing as me.. with an already established collection, instead of going for the new more expensive (or requiring purchase) options, its now possible to consider the cheap options instead and being content with one of those for free every 2 weeks (free stuff is actually the greater novelty than the ship skin).

Its only the 6000+ items which they may take more out of your wallet upfront.. but given the cost of everything they've given up the next transaction that would have happened without arx.. and the fact that consensus is generally very mistaken about things being more expensive...

Well pending what they do on the limited edition sales i wonder how they could.

I'm stocking up a fresh account started post arx, and while i have much self control from experience and prior duplicate purchases.. i've only bought one or two cheap arx bundles and stopped at that. Its actually quite a bit less than i have paid prior.

 

[Phongsalt]

 

[Red Anders]

What's wrong with offering paintjobs individually AND as part of packs? They're not mutually exclusive you know.

You questioning my logic is a bit rich tbh.

Is a fair point. I can remember hundreds of people over the years asking for paints to be sold separately. I can't remember anybody ever asking them to stop selling packs. I'm guessing that the chnange to the store architecture only allows individual paints now but I'm also sure that it could have been designed to allow packs and there really isn't any reason not to sell both.

I'm sure if they did though, Wicked would be back saying that the fact packs cost (example) $5 worth of Arx but the individual paints cost $1.50 each is just another evil marketing ploy to encourage people to spend extra money to buy the set when they were only going to buy a couple of paints before they saw the pack offer. That's the trouble with this thread really, the starting point is 'FDev are evil capitalist pigs' and any and all evidence will be twisted to fit the hypothesis.

If some people on here found a tenner on the floor they'd spend all day moaning that it wasn't a twenty.

 

[Ezren]

Oh look, it's Stigbob. I wondered when you'd white-knight your way in here after I posted. Maybe you should read my first post in this thread, I'll even bold the relevant bit for you, an argument you keep avoiding, because you can't justify it.

If you were hoping to make a point by highlighting where you implied that ARX was harmful for the game, I hope you had something better than that. You're not saying anything new, you're retreading arguments made and addressed over and over in every thread with the word "ARX" in the title.

But let's grasp where you hinge your whole argument.

How can I be ok with SWTOR's virtual currency, but not Frontier's? I think the main difference is SWTOR always had (or at least always has had since I started playing it) a virtual currency, whereas Elite hasn't.

Consoles have had virtual currencies for years in Frontier Points, so... no. But you were more okay paying for a subscription (which was not a virtual currency cost but you are apparently a-okay with, hmm).

It comes down to you just deciding that you're not okay with ARX and struggling to justify it. Your answer to why is basically a shrug.