The AX nerf problem is that there is no obvious reason why, please explain...

[Aashenfox]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

 

[Zwajo]

welcome to elite... home of the extreme knee jerk nerf patch... grab a soda and some popcorn.. the fireworks aint over yet.

 

[Mav359]

They already confirmed that it was intended and there is a Galnet article explaining that the Thargoids are adapting to our weapons.

 

[Aashenfox]

They already confirmed that it was intended and there is a Galnet article explaining that the Thargoids are adapting to our weapons.

They didn't say why though, and I want a double confirmation on the degree of the nerf please. It's so ludicrous (and affects the wrong stat according to their own patch notes), that I honestly think someone messed up. If that's not the case, they only need to confirm one more time (and would quiet a lot of people) and I'll say 'Fine' and move on. The 'adapting to our weapons' thing is a poor excuse, but it works, just about, as long as the justification is sound. It's that justification I'm interested in. We all know that's just the cover for the nerf, whoever heard of that kind of adaptation in a matter of minutes (it was minutes, the server ticked, the Thargoids were unkillable again)? Pleeeeease.

Some will say that if we could kill them already, what would be the point of doing the CGs that give other thargoid weapons, if we don't need them. Well, firtly, it's not easy to killa thargoid with missiles, even wings of pilots have run out before downing one, the MCs would still have been useful. If they had NOT nerfed the AX missiles, I would be doing the MC CGs, cos MCs are cheaper to use than missiles and suit my gameplay style better. Now, as it is, if the Thargoids are going to adapt to everything we produce (if that is indeed the idea of the story), then that will simply ensure that I do NOT take part in the CGs.

Everyone who was saying 'make them hard' was happy. You could have just increased their resistances a little, or as I previously suggested, bring in a new wave of retextured thargoids that are tougher (that would fit better with the adaptaion line), and leave a few of the originals for us combat pilots to play with.

 

[Mav359]

The 'why' is probably to help with what they see as the story driven/content release phase of 2.4, it was already getting too easy to kill them (people were killing them with adders) and would have taken away from what ever is coming next.... i'm guessing but it makes sense to me.

There's new multi-canons around the corner and talk of more to come, just wait till the BGS ticks over on Thursday and see where it takes us

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

My issue that cant be handwaviumed away is if the thargoids have adapted and the missiles no longer as effective why have human ships adapted as they are not as effective on them either? .. smells like a rush job and not thought through gents, bad form.

 

[Aashenfox]

We know the implementation is a bit off (the poostorm has already ensured they will do things better in future I believe, nerfing the missiles instead of buffing the aliens, was indeed the main error here), but let's hear the justification, in their own words. It might go some way to appeasing us, the disappointed.

 

[EvE4evah]

We know the implementation is a bit off (the poostorm has already ensured they will do things better in future I believe, nerfing the missiles instead of buffing the aliens, was indeed the main error here), but let's hear the justification, in their own words. It might go some way to appeasing us, the disappointed.

o7 Fox! My guess is FDev wants the Bugs to incentive co-op gameplay, so when they saw some CMDRs soloing them they nerfed the missiles a bit.

 

[Aashenfox]

o7 Fox! My guess is FDev wants the Bugs to incentive co-op gameplay, so when they saw some CMDRs soloing them they nerfed the missiles a bit.

Hey bro! o7

I could accept that, and then my question would become; the degree of the nerf...? Did you really intend it to require 100 ships instead of, say 6 coordinated ones? Or was it just so that the new MCs would be needed? And if so, what reassurances do we have that the exact same thing won't happen? And if it will happen, is that supposed to be compelling gameplay?

 

[EvE4evah]

Hey bro! o7

I could accept that, and then my question would become; the degree of the nerf...? Did you really intend it to require 100 ships instead of, say 6 coordinated ones?

Hmm that one sounds like a gross miscalculation on the nerf values and damage kind (breach damage instead or armour piercing).

 

[Vardaugas]

They released the new weapons and instead of having them ineffective from the start they let you have a go with them and kill a few bugs. Of course more weapons will come out and they need a reason to exist, so with the patch scheduled near the release of a new weapon, they nerf the missiles to their planned damage capacity. I mean, try to imagine they had released the missiles as they are now. Think of the response then.

 

[vindicator jones]

I made a video about this today.

[video=youtube_share;6EVWuqz1MBI]https://youtu.be/6EVWuqz1MBI[/video]

 

[fsdraconis]

I'm going to bet the reason we did not get the larger missile rack had nothing to do with the CG. But had everything to do with the whole "telling of the story of the arms race". We will get the bigger missile rack later on. That is my assumption.

 

[Muetdhiver]

My issue that cant be handwaviumed away is if the thargoids have adapted and the missiles no longer as effective why have human ships adapted as they are not as effective on them either? .. smells like a rush job and not thought through gents, bad form.

I missed the part where our ships are now biological and self-adaptive like the thargoids Oo

The thargoids are bio-tech masters. I mean, they grow bases and ships, and clearly are not late comers
to the whole war thing. You really think that its the first time someone try to bug spray them with chemical
weapons ?

I kind of see where FD wants to go with this. I quite like it, but I hope they'll do something deeper than rock/paper/cissor with it.

 

[Duckfat]

We need to develop a really big shoe. Then some sort of a delivery mechanism for throwing it really hard.

 

[Pumabear8]

o7 Fox! My guess is FDev wants the Bugs to incentive co-op gameplay, so when they saw some CMDRs soloing them they nerfed the missiles a bit.

This was mentioned by someone else, and in my opinion it's akin to 'forcing' co-op if you want in on the Thargoid action, this is unfair to those who prefer to play in solo, the promise initially for this game is there would be an offline mode, that promise was not kept, but some of us let it slide because of solo mode, not all of us are into group participation.

 

[Hadarmil]

I'll throw in my completely asinine and pointless suggestion for FDevs, one made by someone who doesn't know biowaste about game design:

How about this for adapting?

1. 20 CMDRs come to gank the goid? They one shot it, everybody congratulate each other that it was so easy...then "unknown signature detected" and 5 goids warp in tomato red and start tearing everybody. Everyone scrambles to turn while shooting at each other and feeling somewhat more damp in the nether regions. They adapted! Total classic Aliens moment of dread.

2. Reverski? It just dodges. Claimed to be fixed but I wouldn't know.

3. Easy wings? Hostile the moment hardpoints are deployed. Still isn't easy.

Now I'll shut up about it and go back to getting back to the bubble.

 

[kofeyh]

I'm going to bet the reason we did not get the larger missile rack had nothing to do with the CG. But had everything to do with the whole "telling of the story of the arms race". We will get the bigger missile rack later on. That is my assumption.

Frontier makes arbitrary decisions all the time, based on CG outcomes; if they want them in the game, however, they will simply invent them into the game, as they see fit regardless of any CG outcomes. The hand of frontier, moves in mysterious ways.

 

[kofeyh]

1. 20 CMDRs come to gank the goid? They one shot it, everybody congratulate each other that it was so easy...then "unknown signature detected" and 5 goids warp in tomato red and start tearing everybody. Everyone scrambles to turn while shooting at each other and feeling somewhat more damp in the nether regions. They adapted! Total classic Aliens moment of dread.

An escalated response. 12+ commanders dogpiling a thargoid, it is shredded, then a couple of it's flower-brothers and flower-sisters wake in because of the distress of the former 'goid, and open up a giant can of whoop a-stuff. Code brown. Repeat, code brown. Probably works out well for all, really, from an engagement perspective.

It's just easier to just clobber the guns, though, with a bit of hand-wavium as a reason; simpler, lower risk vector for introducing other issues. It's just arguable if that's actually addressed whatever it was supposed to address.

--

All this talk of "adapting" reminds me of this bit in fifth-element, tho:

[as the Federation ships prepare to fire on the dark planet]
Scientist's Aide: Its structure has just solidified on the surface.
Head Scientist: I think it's anticipating the attack. Anticipation denotes intelligence.
Priest Vito Cornelius: The most terrible intelligence imaginable, Mr. President.

 

[Franc Kaos]

I made a video about this today.

https://youtu.be/6EVWuqz1MBI

Cool, a youtuber has complained about Galnet finally (text dump, hard to follow story). I fully expect fdev to now fix that in a couple of patches (never mind players have been spilling salt over it for ages).