General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Arry]

If people are tired of lies they should be moving away from the really easily verifiable anti-vax conspiracy lies though. Seems completely counterintuitive.

I won't entertain anti-vax propaganda in any way. If I start to read or hear something in that vain, I stop and dismiss as rubbish. However: I still have little trust, in anything our load and masters, have to say to us. This is not based on any anti-vax campaigns, dark state, lefty rubbish or right wing stupidity. Just based on historical facts. They lie, they have been seen to be lying, to achieve their own aims and have also done so, even on this subject. They even claim, that their lies, are based on 'the science' or have be lead 'by the science'. But these lies, have been based on 'cherry picked science' that only back up their own agendas and so, if by chance, they happen to be telling the truth, 'this time', what reason, do I or anyone else have, to trust them, this time?

Don't get me wrong here: I personally will always look for another souse. WHO or John Hopkins, for example, but I am not Joe Public and I can fully understand the lack of trust, they have and why it is the case.

I want the vaccine and can't wait to be offered it. I may even not mention, my Penicillin allergy, just to get it; because this virus really worries my and right now, it is my only chance, of getting back to a normal life.

 

[Arry]

People aren't tired of lies. They're tired of not hearing what they want. Reality is confronting and scary, lies are better.

There is one thing that is really angering me: We get to a lock-down, months too late and as soon as it happens, the anti-lockdown idiots, that are putting profit before people. Get a news channel platform to complain and discourage, that which is common sense and whch the medical profession, has been begging for, for weeks and months. Why don't they just shut these profiteers up and not give them a platform?

 

[Stigbob]

I won't entertain anti-vax propaganda in any way. If I start to read or hear something in that vain, I stop and dismiss as rubbish. However: I still have little trust, in anything our load and masters, have to say to us. This is not based on any anti-vax campaigns, dark state, lefty rubbish or right wing stupidity. Just based on historical facts. They lie, they have been seen to be lying, to achieve their own aims and have also done so, even on this subject. They even claim, that their lies, are based on 'the science' or have be lead 'by the science'. But these lies, have been based on 'cherry picked science' that only back up their own agendas and so, if by chance, they happen to be telling the truth, 'this time', what reason, do I or anyone else have, to trust them, this time?

Don't get me wrong here: I personally will always look for another souse. WHO or John Hopkins, for example, but I am not Joe Public and I can fully understand the lack of trust, they have and why it is the case.

I want the vaccine and can't wait to be offered it. I may even not mention, my Penicillin allergy, just to get it; because this virus really worries my and right now, it is my only chance, of getting back to a normal life.

Johnson was sacked from his first job as a times reporter for falsifying a quote from his own godfather. He then became a Tory politician and was sacked from the cabinet for lying to John Major the PM at the time. He then became mayor of London and awarded contracts to one mistress and took legal action to prevent the public being told how many illegitimate children he had at the time. Then he told verifiable lies about Brexit and got that through on their back despite being pro Europe himself. This toppled the PM so he got that job and shacked up in number 10 with a new mistress whilst his wife suffered through cancer alone. All verifiable facts and an amazing example of how the super posh fail upwards.

You would be insane to trust anything said by or a government led by that man.

Scientists and doctors however lack his character flaws so the vaccines good.

 

[Arry]

Johnson was sacked from his first job as a times reporter for falsifying a quote from his own godfather. He then became a Tory politician and was sacked from the cabinet for lying to John Major the PM at the time. He then became mayor of London and awarded contracts to one mistress and took legal action to prevent the public being told how many illegitimate children he had at the time. Then he told verifiable lies about Brexit and got that through on their back despite being pro Europe himself. This toppled the PM so he got that job and shacked up in number 10 with a new mistress whilst his wife suffered through cancer alone. All verifiable facts and an amazing example of how the super posh fail upwards.

You would be insane to trust anything said by or a government led by that man.

Scientists and doctors however lack his character flaws so the vaccines good.

I already knew all of the above. Not that it will remain here for long.

I fully understand the those producing the vaccines, all have good and honest intentions and 'can be trusted' to get us through this thing. On the other hand. No vaccine producer tested their product on the over 65 year olds, to any real extent, before close to 12 million people in the UK were injected with it. It was a trial, like it or not. A trial that the scientists had little power over. It was a gamble, because no one knew, what would happen.

Question: If the scientists are so confident in their product, why will they not pass if fit to give to children?

This whole thing is and has been, politically lead, from start to date and these people will put their own interests, before the interests of the general public; each and every time.

 

[Arry]

Quote: "Scientists and doctors however lack his character flaws so the vaccines good."

Example: Watch the lady leading scientist at the Lord Chump press conference, when he talked of injecting disinfectant. She was visibly cringing, almost withdrawing into herself. YET SHE SAID NOTHING. Because she was not in charge and the same goes for most of the scientists that have to stand up and back the PM/MPs at the U.K. daily press briefings.

The issue up for discussion at this moment is not the validity of the vaccines. It is about the lack of trust, in those that have been seen to be lying to the general public, throughout this pandemic.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

100%

 

[Stigbob]

I already knew all of the above. Not that it will remain here for long.

I intended it as a list of verified recent historical events rather than a political opinion, you could well be right though.

I fully understand the those producing the vaccines, all have good and honest intentions and 'can be trusted' to get us through this thing. On the other hand. No vaccine producer tested their product on the over 65 year olds, to any real extent, before close to 12 million people in the UK were injected with it. It was a trial, like it or not. A trial that the scientists had little power over. It was a gamble, because no one knew, what would happen.

Question: If the scientists are so confident in their product, why will they not pass if fit to give to children?

This whole thing is and has been, politically lead, from start to date and these people will put their own interests, before the interests of the general public; each and every time.

It could be an acknowledgement that kids are the most resistant and lack comorbidities plus a lot of the anti-vax conspiracies centre around kids, so you don't risk either a huge medical problem or exacerbating the conspiracies. A calculated risk maybe.

The grubby little tykes can still act as a pool of infection though.

 

[Stigbob]

Quote: "Scientists and doctors however lack his character flaws so the vaccines good."

Example: Watch the lady leading scientist at the Lord Chump press conference, when he talked of injecting disinfectant. She was visibly cringing, almost withdrawing into herself. YET SHE SAID NOTHING. Because she was not in charge and the same goes for most of the scientists that have to stand up and back the PM/MPs at the U.K. daily press briefings.

The issue up for discussion at this moment is not the validity of the vaccines. It is about the lack of trust, in those that have been seen to be lying to the general public, throughout this pandemic.

Correcting it would have been their last appearance at a formal press conference which could have an even worse effect on the quality of information being given out if they were replaced with a total yes man an idiot or both. Damage control.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

 

[Arry]

Correcting it would have been their last appearance at a formal press conference which could have an even worse effect on the quality of information being given out if they were replaced with a total yes man an idiot or both. Damage control.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

Yet not correcting it; cost lives.

Dr Anthony Fauci was the same. Always standing there as the 'face of the science', but constantly, looking at his shoes. You could see his demeanour change, with each and every sentence, coming out of his idiot bosses mouth.

 

[Patrick_68000]

People are most definitely idiots. A person is smart maybe as an individual but put us all together and we are a big dumb group of lemmings. Sorry to say (not really)

Indeed, the homogeneity kills the heterogeneity.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The French Minister of Health declared :

"40% of caregivers in nursing homes, 30% of all caregivers, this is not enough"

"When we are caregivers, it is our responsibility to vaccinate ourselves. You protect yourself and you protect your patients. Vaccination would protect against contagiousness. As of tomorrow, I will write a letter to the caregivers to encourage them to be vaccinated".

"If that were not enough, we could consider a referral to the National Ethics Council."

There is indeed here, an ethical question concerning the compulsory vaccination.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The French Prime Minister declared:

"Only one in three caregivers is vaccinated, this is not normal, it compromises our ability to fight effectively against the virus".

Indeed, how do you want to be motivated to get vaccinated if the caregivers themselves are not convinced.

 

[Gortron]

Correcting it would have been their last appearance at a formal press conference which could have an even worse effect on the quality of information being given out if they were replaced with a total yes man an idiot or both. Damage control.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

I feel sorry for Government employed scientists. They tend to get wheeled out to back up the latest ridiculous ideas cooked up by politicians (universally so this isn’t really political statement) and if they say something that isn’t in-line with what is wanted they get sacked.

Take Dr David Nutt as an excellent example. He said something (look him up) was less dangerous than horse riding and although completely true was sacked ASAP. The science didn’t fit policy, so they sacked him and got in a new scientific advisor to come up with a more suitable hypothesis.

At the same time science is just a way of testing the world around you to see if it does what you think it does and adapting your testing if what you thought was wrong.

Science doesn’t provide a common sense element. The WHO was saying there was no evidence for wearing face masks.

The U.K. government followed WHO advice on Face masks. I’m not defending it but the U.K. government followed the science (it choose to) AND there was no evidence Face masks work at the time. It’s obvious wearing a face mask works but nobody had studied it........ so no scientific evidence.

 

[Gortron]

The French Prime Minister declared:

"Only one in three caregivers is vaccinated, this is not normal, it compromises our ability to fight effectively against the virus".

Indeed, how do you want to be motivated to get vaccinated if the caregivers themselves are not convinced.

Indeed. I know you’re more rebellious in France than in the U.K. but it doesn’t make sense that care givers are so reluctant to get a vaccine in France. They are the most likely people to catch the virus and spread it around.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Indeed. I know you’re more rebellious in France than in the U.K. but it doesn’t make sense that care givers are so reluctant to get a vaccine in France. They are the most likely people to catch the virus and spread it around.

I have heard that it is cultural among caregivers this reluctance to vaccinate.

 

[Arry]

Science doesn’t provide a common sense element. The WHO was saying there was no evidence for wearing face masks.

The U.K. government followed WHO advice on Face masks. I’m not defending it but the U.K. government followed the science (it choose to) AND there was no evidence Face masks work at the time. It’s obvious wearing a face mask works but nobody had studied it........ so no scientific evidence.

The first sentence is not quite correct, about what the WHO said. Which was basically, masks are not a total defence against this virus. Then twisted into, no prove that they are really affective.

As to the 'testing of masks' under such conditions; or as you put it, the lack of and therefore the lack of testing and fact based evidence? Masks have been used to protect, patients and doctors, since Florence Nightingale. Ebola, SARS etc. etc.

 

[Stigbob]

I feel sorry for Government employed scientists. They tend to get wheeled out to back up the latest ridiculous ideas cooked up by politicians (universally so this isn’t really political statement) and if they say something that isn’t in-line with what is wanted they get sacked.

Take Dr David Nutt as an excellent example. He said something (look him up) was less dangerous than horse riding and although completely true was sacked ASAP. The science didn’t fit policy, so they sacked him and got in a new scientific advisor to come up with a more suitable hypothesis.

At the same time science is just a way of testing the world around you to see if it does what you think it does and adapting your testing if what you thought was wrong.

Science doesn’t provide a common sense element. The WHO was saying there was no evidence for wearing face masks.

The U.K. government followed WHO advice on Face masks. I’m not defending it but the U.K. government followed the science (it choose to) AND there was no evidence Face masks work at the time. It’s obvious wearing a face mask works but nobody had studied it........ so no scientific evidence.

Prohibition doesn't work, it made the mafia what they are and is now doing the same for people like the the yardies. Legalize the soft stuff and tax it, absolutely everyone wins other than drug dealers/smugglers.

With masks it was a case of not having followed their own scientific advice on pandemic stockpiling and the subsequent PPE shortage meant they didn't want to compete with the public for buying masks at the start hence the changing directives.

Same as the initial herd immunity strategy the attraction of that was that it's the cheapest least effort option in terms of everything except human life.

 

[Patrick_68000]

In France, a majority of caregivers do not want to be vaccinated because they are the only owners of their body and decide what to do with it (like everyone else).

And no study to date proves that vaccination prevents the contagiousness.

It looks like the government is backing down and will not make vaccination mandatory for caregivers.

 

[metatheurgist]

In France, a majority of caregivers do not want to be vaccinated because they are the only owners of their body and decide what to do with it (like everyone else).

And no study to date proves that vaccination prevents the contagiousness.

It looks like the government is backing down and will not make vaccination mandatory for caregivers.

And yet they want to block vaccine exports from Europe! C'mon guys, make up your mind.

 

[Patrick_68000]

And yet they want to block vaccine exports from Europe! C'mon guys, make up your mind.

In fact France is not the European Union.

It's not the only one to decide.