PvP The Deadliest Ganker Tactic - The "Double Yo-Yo"

[Bob Lighthouse]

I hadn't considered a size 4 pulse laser, mainly because I'm pretty sure it's not available in a turret. I like turrets because they aim, I pilot, but I will look into the size 4 pulse laser.

You could even run a c4 gimballed beam for around 3x the damage.

Regarding MC's and the Pulse Laser, I read that in PvP, all gimballed weapons were at a disadvantage because they require too much ToT (Time on Target). Is this not true?

It's the suceptability to chaff that's a problem.

Rails/Imperial Hammers: I can't aim well enough when steering my ship even on close encounters. I tried the rails targeting farther out. It was really hard to hit anything over 2500 meters. I don't know how I could make use of the long range enhancement. What did I miss?

It's often harder to hit things with them at close range, believe it or not, since things can cross your screen faster.
You can't really take advantage of the "snap" to target feature either.

 

[MUSKETEER]

If you can't hit target with fixed weapons then surely gimballed won't be disadvantage to you.
It may turn into your advantage if your opponent has no chaffs and you are evasive enough not to get hit by TLB and DF PAs.

Don't bother with turreted weapons.

 

[Krash]

If you can't hit target with fixed weapons then surely gimballed won't be disadvantage to you.
It may turn into your advantage if your opponent has no chaffs and you are evasive enough not to get hit by TLB and DF PAs.

Don't bother with turreted weapons.

Turrets have their place, IMO, but that place is not in the biggest hardpoint.

 

[MAAD DAWG]

If you can't hit target with fixed weapons then surely gimballed won't be disadvantage to you.
It may turn into your advantage if your opponent has no chaffs and you are evasive enough not to get hit by TLB and DF PAs.

Don't bother with turreted weapons.

I got to where I am in this game using turreted lasers and gimballed MCs. They've been an extremely effective combination in PvE.

I don't think any turreted weapons are available in Size 4.

 

[Krash]

I got to where I am in this game using turreted lasers and gimballed MCs. They've been an extremely effective combination in PvE.

I don't think they are available in Size 4.

I engineered a huge turreted cannon (long range/force shell) for kicks and giggles. But in general what everyone here seems to be saying is (for PvP at least) your best strategy is a gimbaled weapon in the huge hardpoint for the purposes of improved DPS. Looking at your other weapons, do you resist the use of another firegroup?

 

[MAAD DAWG]

Krash, what do you mean by "resist"? Do you mean "not"?

I use multiple fire groups on most of my ships.

 

[Krash]

Krash, what do you mean by "resist"? Do you mean "not"?

I use multiple fire groups on most of my ships.

Good to know. I probably made some bad assumptions. How do you arrange your firegroup with those weapons? Which is trigger 1/trigger 2?

The main point is you could put class 1 turrets in all your hardpoints and still be king of the hill vs the paper NPCs. You're now testing the PvP waters. Using a class 3 turret in your huge HP looks like another self imposed handicap. And I'm wracking my brain over why someone might do that.

 

[MAAD DAWG]

Good to know. I probably made some bad assumptions. How do you arrange your firegroup with those weapons? Which is trigger 1/trigger 2?

The main point is you could put class 1 turrets in all your hardpoints and still be king of the hill vs the paper NPCs. You're now testing the PvP waters. Using a class 3 turret in your huge HP looks like another self imposed handicap. And I'm wracking my brain over why someone might do that.

I'll explain my rationale for my setup. Afterwards, I want you to explain yours.

All ships:
Right Trigger: Lasers - This includes both turret lasers, gimbal lasers, and any mixture of the two. (If no lasers, then something else.)
Left Trigger: Everything else, from MCs to chaff to rockets. If MCs, they are always gimballed. I never use gimballed MCs.

Not all NPCs are paper. All class 1 turrets would not be a viable loadout. Maybe you don't encounter some of the NPCs I have. Ever taken out a wing of 3 Elite Anacondas all by yourself with just a Vulture using two size 3 turret beam lasers? I have. And the turrets are awesome while I pilot the Vulture. It took a while but I got it done. My ship was in rough shape when the battle was over 10-15 minutes later, but the 3 Anacondas were destroyed and I was alive.

Do you play on an XBox 1 or PS4? If not, then you will likely not understand why I use turret lasers. (I don't use turrets for anything else, just lasers.)

Precise, quick piloting with an XBox 1's two tiny joysticks is almost impossible. (I have written about this subject several times in this post.) It's more like sloppy piloting. I use turrets because they are self targeting. I pilot the ship; the turret lasers track my opponent. And if they are beam lasers, they continuously pour heat into the opposing ship; eventually, it will start to suffer internal heat damage, even before its shields go down.

Why have I used a size 3 turret beam laser on the belly of a FDL? Partly because of the placement of the class 4 hardpoint on the FDL; it's not very useful. Using a gimballed laser, you're blind most of the time. If your opponent is too high above your forward view, it can't be targeted. If your opponent is below your forward view, it can't be targeted. With a turret beam laser, I can target an opponent in front of me; if the opponent goes below my line of sight, my turret beam laser stays targeted and firing on that opponent. Yes, a size 3 laser is not as powerful as a size 4, but it never stops firing on my opponent if he/she is in front of me or below me. It's also engineered for long-range, 6000 meters with no fall-off in damage to my opponent. If I pilot well, it stays locked on my opponent's ship.

And then, there's the heat issue. My FDL is hot. A size 4 gimballed beam laser would overheat my ship frequently. For heat management, it was easier to use a size 3 turret beam laser. It can fire all the time and not overheat my ship. However, after reading about the size 4 gimballed pulse laser, I may investigate it. However, with any gimballed weapon on the bottom hard point of the FDL, there is the whole target visibility issue. You can't target and keep a lock on what you can't see.

Okay, your turn.

 

[MAAD DAWG]

One last post on turret lasers:

I think they're one of the most overlooked and maligned set of weapons in the game. They offer many advantages:

Lower power draw than gimballed or fixed lasers.
Lower heat generation than gimballed or fixed lasers.
Passive operation; you target them and they will stay focused on your opponent until they lose target lock, for whatever reason.
Properly engineered, while on target, they never stop heating up the inside of your opponent's ship. Eventually, if you put enough heat into your target, its ability to dissipate heat will be overwhelmed, and it will begin to take internal damage, even before their shields go down.
If you're a one-man crew on a big ship, it helps to have at least some of your weapons automated.
They work well in concert with gimballed lasers. For instance, on my big ships, I have both turret and gimballed lasers on the right trigger. I target an opponent's ship, squeeze the right trigger, and all the lasers fire on my opponent. When I let go of the right trigger, the gimballed lasers disengage and stop firing but the turret lasers keep firing. This is a nice feature set, especially if your gimballed lasers produce a lot of heat.
If you engineer 1 or more of them to be long-range, they will inflict full damage all the way out to 6000 meters. The long-range option draws a lot of power, generates a lot of heat. Using the low power consumption feature of turret lasers helps compensate for the knockoffs of the long-range option.

Drawbacks? A few:

Lower damage inflicted than gimballed lasers, but what if your gimbals keep overheating your ship? Turrets are an option.
Good piloting is required for them to maintain target lock. If you make a bunch of quick, jerky moves, they will lose target lock and have to reaquire, which they will, but you want them to stay on target, so pilot as smoothly as you can.

 

[Krash]

I'll explain my rationale for my setup. Afterwards, I want you to explain yours.

All ships:
Right Trigger: Lasers - This includes both turret lasers, gimbal lasers, and any mixture of the two. (If no lasers, then something else.)
Left Trigger: Everything else, from MCs to chaff to rockets. If MCs, they are always gimballed. I never use gimballed MCs.

Not all NPCs are paper. All class 1 turrets would not be a viable loadout. Maybe you don't encounter some of the NPCs I have. Ever taken out a wing of 3 Elite Anacondas all by yourself with just a Vulture using two size 3 turret beam lasers? I have. And the turrets are awesome while I pilot the Vulture. It took a while but I got it done. My ship was in rough shape when the battle was over 10-15 minutes later, but the 3 Anacondas were destroyed and I was alive.

Do you play on an XBox 1 or PS4? If not, then you will likely not understand why I use turret lasers. (I don't use turrets for anything else, just lasers.)

Precise, quick piloting with an XBox 1's two tiny joysticks is almost impossible. (I have written about this subject several times in this post.) It's more like sloppy piloting. I use turrets because they are self targeting. I pilot the ship; the turret lasers track my opponent. And if they are beam lasers, they continuously pour heat into the opposing ship; eventually, it will start to suffer internal heat damage, even before its shields go down.

Why have I used a size 3 turret beam laser on the belly of a FDL? Partly because of the placement of the class 4 hardpoint on the FDL; it's not very useful. Using a gimballed laser, you're blind most of the time. If your opponent is too high above your forward view, it can't be targeted. If your opponent is below your forward view, it can't be targeted. With a turret beam laser, I can target an opponent in front of me; if the opponent goes below my line of sight, my turret beam laser stays targeted and firing on that opponent. Yes, a size 3 laser is not as powerful as a size 4, but it never stops firing on my opponent if he/she is in front of me or below me. It's also engineered for long-range, 6000 meters with no fall-off in damage to my opponent. If I pilot well, it stays locked on my opponent's ship.

And then, there's the heat issue. My FDL is hot. A size 4 gimballed beam laser would overheat my ship frequently. For heat management, it was easier to use a size 3 turret beam laser. It can fire all the time and not overheat my ship. However, after reading about the size 4 gimballed pulse laser, I may investigate it. However, with any gimballed weapon on the bottom hard point of the FDL, there is the whole target visibility issue. You can't target and keep a lock on what you can't see.

Okay, your turn.

PC player here. I do different setups depending on the ship and the scenario. For example, I have a PA setup and a MC setup for my PvP vette. When I face big ships I want the PAs, small to med ships I want the MCs. You seem to be happy with your methods and the only way to see it differently will be to get out there and get some PvP practice. Too bad we cant meet up for a duel. I think you’ve gone as far as you can with the NPCs.

Have you tried the Mamba? You might like it.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I got to where I am in this game using turreted lasers and gimballed MCs. They've been an extremely effective combination in PvE.

I don't think any turreted weapons are available in Size 4.

Pump da brakes!

Aren't you stagnated and asking for help?

Do you want advice or not?

To be blunt, it is a terrible choice to put a c3 turret in the FDLs c4 hardpoint.
It's ludicrous but people are treating you with kid gloves.

Please stop trying to defend the choice when people are trying to help.
It's unbecoming.

 

[jasonbarron]

Pump da brakes!

Aren't you stagnated and asking for help?

Do you want advice or not?

To be blunt, it is a terrible choice to put a c3 turret in the FDLs c4 hardpoint.
It's ludicrous but people are treating you with kid gloves.

Please stop trying to defend the choice when people are trying to help.
It's unbecoming.

You know what would be totally dank in that c4 slot of Maad Dawg's? A docking computer.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

You know what would be totally dank in that c4 slot of Maad Dawg's? A docking computer.

Maybe a few more in the optionals for good measure?

What the FDL should look like:

What OPs FDL looks like:

 

[jasonbarron]

Maybe a few more in the optionals for good measure?

What the FDL should look like:

What OPs FDL looks like:

I immediately thought of about 12 responses that had to do with guns, food items and various anatomical parts, but ultimately decided to keep them to myself because I think Arguendo is about ready to ban me

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Lol, I find it fascinating that the saddest looking hotdog I could find was on wikihow.

 

[Wargfoot]

Arguendo is about ready to ban me

I'll LOL if you get ganked by the Feds.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

I encountered this ganker tactic in the Homeworld (Shinrarta Dezhra) system one evening between 8:30-9:00 p.m. MDT. while piloting an all Class A component, Grade 5+ engineered, FDL with Prismatic Shields.

I high waked into the system to purchase components at the Jameson Memorial station. Immediately, I saw 2 human piloted ships near my destination. Both moved to intercept my path.

I was interdicted. I focused on my Targeting panel to target my interdictor when another ship entered our space. Before I could assuredly target either ship, I was hit by a PA with TLB. If I had a target lock on either ship, I lost it.

I turned back toward my canopy and radar view to see one ship in front of me, one behind me. I targeted the ship in front of me. I was instantly shot from behind by the second ship which broke my target lock again.

I attempted to re-target. As I did, both enemy ships exchanged positions at high speeds, one in front of me, one behind me. Again, I targeted the ship in front of me. I was instantly shot from behind by the other ship, which again, broke my target lock.

Rinse, repeat, maybe 3 times. My ship was destroyed.

All of this happened in approximately 20-30 seconds. It was the fastest time in which I've ever been destroyed in a well engineered ship.

The gankers were using what I would best term a "Double Yo-Yo" tactic with me always in the middle of their yo-yo maneuvers.

I paid the insurance to reacquire my FDL, made my way to the Jameson Memorial station in Solo play mode, and exchanged ships. I selected my all Class A component, Grade 5+ engineered, Corvette with Prismatic Shields. I returned to Open Play mode.

I left Jameson Memorial station and took a short cruise around the Shinrarta Dezhra system to attempt to study their tactics and see how they did it, since I was fairly certain they were hanging out in this system. The System communication panel lit up with a message: "This time he has a Vette."

I was interdicted again and the same pattern of engagement ensued. This time, I didn't try to engage them. I boosted to nearly-out-of-weapons range and high-waked to a nearby system. Damage to my ship: none to hull, shields down 2/3rds. Total engagement time was approximately 20-30 seconds.

================

This is the deadliest ganker tactic I've ever encountered. Against 2 very practiced pilots using PA w/TLB, and almost certainly using HOTAS, I don't think a solo pilot stands a chance.

One ganker was piloting a FAS; don't know about the other pilot. Their names? Odd, not easily memorable, and there was not enough time for me to study and remember them. Every time I tried to do something, look at something, my ship was hit.

I would welcome any ideas on how a single pilot could counter and win against these 2 gankers.

If you play on an XBox 1 and want to experience this tactic for yourself, I encourage you to visit the Homeworld (Shinrarta Dezhra) system between 8:30-9:00 pm MDT. I am pretty sure these 2 gankers hang out in this system because it has a very high traffic rate which gives them a lot of fresh meat.

It is the deadliest ganker tactic I have ever encountered. Any and all comments are welcome.

Same happened to me about a month ago. It happened so fast, I was looking at the rebuy screen before I realized what had happened. Having billions and billions, a trip to the rebuy is just a trip to the rebuy. But wondering what the hell caused it, is priceless. Thanks

 

[MAAD DAWG]

PC player here. I do different setups depending on the ship and the scenario. For example, I have a PA setup and a MC setup for my PvP vette. When I face big ships I want the PAs, small to med ships I want the MCs. You seem to be happy with your methods and the only way to see it differently will be to get out there and get some PvP practice. Too bad we cant meet up for a duel. I think you’ve gone as far as you can with the NPCs.

Have you tried the Mamba? You might like it.

I think you're right, NPCs, even in a wing, are no longer a challenge. That's why I was testing the PvP waters when I got hugely ganked. But, no pain, no lesson.

The size 4 hard point on an FDL? I will probably experiment with a gimballed pulse laser again to see if I missed something the first time I tried it. As I recall, it severely overheated my FDL...

A duel would be fun. I wish cross platform play was an option. No I haven't tried the Mamba. Your recommendation is enough for me to give it a look.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

I was watching some clips of this morning's fun.
Don't feel bad OP, you had absolutely no chance in that crowd.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The size 4 hard point on an FDL? I will probably experiment with a gimballed pulse laser again to see if I missed something the first time I tried it. As I recall, it severely overheated my FDL...

A 6A PD w/ charge enhanced/super capacitors has a wep recharge of ~7.8 at 2 pips.

A class 4 gimballed G5 efficient beam only draws ~4.9.
You can shoot that all day and even run thermal vent which will frost your ship up.
A class 4 gimballed G5 focused or LR pulse laser is ~1.56.
Thermal load is slightly higher with focused but still negligible.

If you're overheating with those it's not the lasers at fault.