The Definitive Stealth Guide!

[Ydiss]

So short update on my progress for anyone interested... I'm trying to record footage for my next videos but it's just too difficult right now. The issues are:

1) Too many crashes/disconnects related to missions (mostly when a mission passes, it triggers Blue Cobras and in the case of what just happened, a basic black screen hang forever). It seems the blue cobra occurs on every single kill of this raid mission so that's not going to be fun at all.
2) Of course, this now means I cannot loot a single thing from this settlement because everything will be deleted upon my return. The whole point of me making these videos is to show how you can naturally gather mats as you go. But of course, you cannot.
3) Scavenger/enemy NPCs are now virtually omnipotent when it comes to detection (no idea why they felt this needed to change, it was so well designed up until update 6 and now it's just horrid). If you want to do these missions stealthy, you might as well not bother. They see you when you approach to land and if you approach in an SRV they'll still see you from 100s of metres away. It's just tedious now. Much simpler to just go in full combat load. And the game isn't better for it.

I may just need to avoid combat style missions (but I mean, ugh...) but the bottom line is it's just not nearly as fun as it used to be. I may just wait for update 7 and hope they address these issues.

 

[Screemonster]

So short update on my progress for anyone interested... I'm trying to record footage for my next videos but it's just too difficult right now. The issues are:

1) Too many crashes/disconnects related to missions (mostly when a mission passes, it triggers Blue Cobras and in the case of what just happened, a basic black screen hang forever). It seems the blue cobra occurs on every single kill of this raid mission so that's not going to be fun at all.
2) Of course, this now means I cannot loot a single thing from this settlement because everything will be deleted upon my return. The whole point of me making these videos is to show how you can naturally gather mats as you go. But of course, you cannot.
3) Scavenger/enemy NPCs are now virtually omnipotent when it comes to detection (no idea why they felt this needed to change, it was so well designed up until update 6 and now it's just horrid). If you want to do these missions stealthy, you might as well not bother. They see you when you approach to land and if you approach in an SRV they'll still see you from 100s of metres away. It's just tedious now. Much simpler to just go in full combat load. And the game isn't better for it.

I may just need to avoid combat style missions (but I mean, ugh...) but the bottom line is it's just not nearly as fun as it used to be. I may just wait for update 7 and hope they address these issues.

that's weird, 'cause I've not really been having problems with scavengers, even if I see their lights from the air I can land 300-400m away on the far side of the settlement from them, disembark and dismiss my ship, and by the time I'm in position they've stopped looking for me and dropped their shields. Maybe it's the ship-dismissing that calms them down - I have recalled and dismissed my ship from a position where I can see them and watched their flashlight beams follow it up into the sky, then go back to a regular patrol route when the ship jumps out.

 

[ubermick]

I think there's something to the idea Steve floated elsewhere about since Update 6, NPCs attach the "detection box" of what you happen to be when they first spot you. If you're in your ship, you're forever "ship sized" to them, SRV, or on foot... I've noticed the "omnipotent NPC" effect is greatly diminished when I land 2km+ away, egress to no closer than 500m in the SRV and make the rest of the way on foot. (That said, I'm also dealing with lower levels than you, given that I'm only now starting to encounter NPCs with three shield bars?)

 

[Ydiss]

that's weird, 'cause I've not really been having problems with scavengers, even if I see their lights from the air I can land 300-400m away on the far side of the settlement from them, disembark and dismiss my ship, and by the time I'm in position they've stopped looking for me and dropped their shields. Maybe it's the ship-dismissing that calms them down - I have recalled and dismissed my ship from a position where I can see them and watched their flashlight beams follow it up into the sky, then go back to a regular patrol route when the ship jumps out.

I mean, the fact we even need to dismiss our ship isn't right, to me. None of the way this works now is better than how it was before. It was just fun before.

Further to my post above, I've noticed the Blue Cobra happens when I killed a specific NPC (maybe the type of NPC, it was a worker). I was able to finish the mission by just killing the guards instead and they updated the mission without crashing.

 

[Northpin]

It was just fun before.

It was a bit far fetched... land at the settlement and the scavs were being oblivious and completely ignored the ship landed 100m from them

At least now they react to the ship / srv
And while they're alerted, they can really see you / shot you from a longer distance

 

[Ydiss]

It was a bit far fetched... land at the settlement and the scavs were being oblivious and completely ignored the ship landed 100m from them

At least now they react to the ship / srv
And while they're alerted, they can really see you / shot you from a longer distance

It's just not as fun, simple as that.

Also doesn't help that you get the Blue Cobras so frequently. I crash, come back... oh look they're all back and now start shooting at my ship as I recall it. And I have to kill them all again.

It's just a mess. But sure, let's continue the same argument that realism trumps fun. This is a prime example where it doesn't. I don't care if it was "far fetched". Shields are impossible, not even far-fetched. Lasers are far-fetched. This change did not make scavenger missions more fun, it's changed them to entirely non-stealth events unless you enjoy travelling about whilst you wait for your ship to return. It's just added tedium or just removed stealth, take your pick.

 

[Northpin]

It's just not as fun, simple as that.

I heard you can still take an Apex... and they will not mind the Apex at all...

Edit: but i kinda like it now.
Kill scavs go pretty fast now. I just land at the settlement and they all line up there waiting for me to kill them as soon as i disembark

 

[Ydiss]

Edit: but i kinda like it now.
Kill scavs go pretty fast now. I just land at the settlement and they all line up there waiting for me to kill them as soon as i disembark

And this is an enhancement? "Finding" them was never an issue. If you wanted this "feature", you just fired your weapon in the air and you're done.

This isn't an enhancement, you're just reaching for a game play reason when it just comes down to the usual "but immersion". Anyway, not in the mood to keep arguing with you on this same topic. This is a rubbish change. And it's rendered these missions much less about stealth (not that I needed them to be about stealth, I was quite capable of derping them face on without stealth - the game just isn't better for this lack now).

 

[Northpin]

It's just a mess. But sure, let's continue the same argument that realism trumps fun. This is a prime example where it doesn't. I don't care if it was "far fetched". Shields are impossible, not even far-fetched. Lasers are far-fetched. This change did not make scavenger missions more fun, it's changed them to entirely non-stealth events unless you enjoy travelling about whilst you wait for your ship to return. It's just added tedium or just removed stealth, take your pick.

Come on, you cant Stealth in if you land your ship in the settlement or just nearby
Take an Apex or Land a km from the settlement - and dont fly over it while approaching...

 

[Ydiss]

lol, and now about 12 missions just disappeared from my transactions! All gone, both the ones I'd completed and the ones I still had yet to do!

Sorry, can't convince me that this is currently in a playable state.

 

[Ydiss]

Come on, you cant Stealth in if you land your ship in the settlement or just nearby
Take an Apex or Land a km from the settlement - and dont fly over it while approaching...

Oh because Apex is "stealthy", apparently.

Nope, none of this is better.

 

[Northpin]

lol, and now about 12 missions just disappeared from my transactions! All gone, both the ones I'd completed and the ones I still had yet to do!

Sorry, can't convince me that this is currently in a playable state.

Quit to desktop. Then restart the game.
IF you lose the connection with the mission server, Quit to Menu will not restore it


Edit:

Oh because Apex is "stealthy", apparently.

No, but it's anonymous

Anyway, granted that Update6 is not in your ballpark.
Wait for Update 7?

 

[Ydiss]

Quit to desktop. Then restart the game.
IF you lose the connection with the mission server, Quit to Menu will not restore it

Thanks, that worked.

 

[Retropolitan]

3) Scavenger/enemy NPCs are now virtually omnipotent when it comes to detection (no idea why they felt this needed to change, it was so well designed up until update 6 and now it's just horrid). If you want to do these missions stealthy, you might as well not bother. They see you when you approach to land and if you approach in an SRV they'll still see you from 100s of metres away. It's just tedious now. Much simpler to just go in full combat load. And the game isn't better for it.

This gave me a lot of trouble for the first day or two*, but it hasn't been a problem for me since then. I always take advantage of the terrain and building layout to keep my ship and SRV out of their line of sight - and I enjoy the additional challenge of doing that. As long as I make a much more cautious approach than I used to do they don't see me coming, and once on foot I just have to be a bit more careful **. It's very rare for them to spot me now.

For me, after the adjustment there's just a bit more challenge now to something that had become too easy.

* I used to like parking my SRV right up against a building's wall when the gravity was too high for jumping so I could use the SRV as a step up. I don't do that any more.

** And now I really hate flat terrain around a settlement.

 

[Ydiss]

This gave me a lot of trouble for the first day or two*, but it hasn't been a problem for me since then. I always take advantage of the terrain and building layout to keep my ship and SRV out of their line of sight - and I enjoy the additional challenge of doing that. As long as I make a much more cautious approach than I used to do they don't see me coming, and once on foot I just have to be a bit more careful **. It's very rare for them to spot me now.

For me, after the adjustment there's just a bit more challenge now to something that had become too easy.

* I used to like parking my SRV right up against a building's wall when the gravity was too high for jumping so I could use the SRV as a step up. I don't do that any more.

** And now I really hate flat terrain around a settlement.

Thing is, this was already in the game with massacres and it was fine that it worked that way when they were tipped off. It's a fun, challenging version of the massacre missions. But it doesn't need to be that way for all combat missions!

Scavenger missions were absolutely fine the way they worked before. They didn't need to change. I'm guessing this is the same for restore missions with scavengers in place?

And "it doesn't cause me trouble" isn't really biting down on the right end of the stick. I don't have "trouble" with any of this. It's been months since killing scavengers presented a remote challenge for me. In fact, employing stealth just takes longer. And sure, I can go the extra mile and demonstrate exactly what you're talking about in my videos because I know how to do it. And, if the scavenger situation remains as it is now, that's exactly what I will do. But it simply is not as fun as it was before.

And I feel sorry for new players who take on restore or scavenger missions. It was hard enough as it was when they didn't immediately start tearing your ship new holes as soon as you land! The number of missions that now require this protracted approach is just too high. It's not better. It's just "immersive" because sure, they behave more like real people might behave.

Except for Apex. They trust that Apex are just dropping off uh... who? Another scavenger? Obviously, having them blow up the Apex ship would be rubbish for game play and it'd suck if they actually hunted you down after the Apex landed (assuming, as most real people would, that the Apex dropped someone off and so they need to be killed) but that's my point! It's both less fun and still not consistent. Whatever argument anyone might have as to why Apex remains undetected can be applied to our ships too.

Of all the things the game needed to be improved, this (even if it is objectively better, which it obviously isn't) should be right down the list of things Fdev decided to nail. It's like the L6 NPCs (who I've yet to see). I mean, great... sure, add them but... NPC aggressiveness wasn't a significant "need" for EDO. Not before fixing the fact that scavengers all have this default, ultra aggressive swarming nature that makes combat for new players an absolute nightmare.

 

[Retropolitan]

And I feel sorry for new players who take on restore or scavenger missions. It was hard enough as it was when they didn't immediately start tearing your ship new holes as soon as you land! The number of missions that now require this protracted approach is just too high. It's not better. It's just "immersive" because sure, they behave more like real people might behave.

I agree RE new players. I think the difficulty of all these missions need to scale with rank, or possibly with threat level (if there were threat levels low enough, anyway). But I quite like the fact that the scavengers "behave more like real people might behave."

Theyt don't seem to swarm in large groups, either: I had one bunch of scavengers arrive after I'd powered up a settlement, and about half a dozen of them spotted my SRV and attacked it. Once I'd dealt with them, the scavs in another area were still going about their business. It's not a swarming pile-on like it was at release (or was that alpha?)

 

[Ydiss]

Anyway, all of that isn't the biggest issue (and just means I've got a new topic to cover with my guides because plenty of players will need additional help with these missions now). I've taken on 9 missions today and with none of the ones that are suitable for looting have I been able to do it due to Blue Cobras and all the loot being deleted. That's the main issue with the game's state and me trying to record videos showing how you collect materials and do missions. So that's the primary reason I'm reluctant to even try. I hope this gets fixed in 7.

 

[Northpin]

've taken on 9 missions today and with none of the ones that are suitable for looting have I been able to do it due to Blue Cobras and all the loot being deleted. That's the main issue with the game's state and me trying to record videos showing how you collect materials and do missions. So that's the primary reason I'm reluctant to even try. I hope this gets fixed in 7.

I think they went too far with the anti-relogging "fixes" (quotes because they did nothing to fix the underlying cause people were relogging in the first place...)

Indeed, relogging makes for bad gameplay, but come on, with the game constant crashing and the game deleting any loot post restarting, this really kills any fun.

 

[Ydiss]

I think they went too far with the anti-relogging "fixes" (quotes because they did nothing to fix the underlying cause people were relogging in the first place...)

Indeed, relogging makes for bad gameplay, but come on, with the game constant crashing and the game deleting any loot post restarting, this really kills any fun.

Yeh, I've been against this "fix" for a long time. But right now it's rendering the game nigh on unplayable (at least from the standpoint that I've always tried to promote it, that engineering/mats gathering is possible "as you play" - it definitely isn't right now).

So I've spent the afternoon recording footage but all it'd do if I released it is go to show how broken things are right now. So I think it best I just leave it until it's fixed. Which is a pity, the game hasn't always been in this state.

 

[Ydiss]

So last mission of the day, a sabotage that basically doesn't recognise that the containment unit is a mission target and so cannot complete the mission despite taking all of the steps leading up to the last point of inserting it (is this because it's now changed so that these mission items don't come with you automatically when you disembark at the mission location? Seems that was the issue? Not the best change if so)... Relog... (of course all stuff is now gone) and my ship departs as well. So now I've got a 2k run.

Just...