The disconnect between the theme and the animals of the Africa pack is very problematic

[yoav_r]

For starters, the theme and the animals themselves are amazing!

However, how far the theme and the animals are from each other is a flaw in the pack, and in my opinion, problematic.

For comparison, imagine a North America pack, with Moose, Beaver, Wolverine, and Armadillo, but a Mexico theme, and then you'd get Aztec-style Moose. It would look ridiculous, and this is how I feel about the egyptian style Meerkats. It is just... bad.

The distance from the Namib desert (where Meerkats live) and Egypt is like the distance between Brazil and Canada.

I don't know if these were supposed to be two different packs originally, but they are now merged but the end result is problematic.

It's bad enough that people conflate all of sub-Saharan Africa as one culture and region. But including north Africa and the middle east is problematic, and at best culturally insensitive.

As a "region", it is bigger than both americas together. You wouldn't do an "Americas" theme, would you?

This pack goes up next week, and not much can be done, but I'd be glad if you would avoid such broad generalizations in the future.

 

[markun]

I don’t have a problem with the concept of an Africa pack in general. Yes it’s a diverse and varied continent but so is South America.

I’d love more specific packs but support won’t last forever so I think we have to accept that packs will have a broad reach as Africa alone could take up all the DLCs already released plus those still to come.

What I do have a problem with is the frankly bizarre ancient Egyptian meerkat pieces. Some zoos do indeed have ancient Egyptian inspired architecture - like Antwerp and Memphis - but including an animal from southern Africa in Egyptian style pieces is ridiculous.

 

[Moonfox]

I’m already in agreement because I personally find the objects too fitted to a theme-park style, and not something I would use in a zoo.

It’s definitely silly to have such strongly themed pieces for animals that aren’t from Egypt, for example, and I agree that it comes across pretty badly. Like Egypt = Africa. I wish they’d gone with an animal pack for African expansion, since we have so many beautiful and more versatile pieces already. If they really wanted to have build sets alongside animals for this pack, they should have been more general zoo items. Hopefully we get some of those in the patch!

A lot of people will love the build items that come in this pack and I’m happy for them. They are beautifully made items and they are cool, just not at all to my personal taste.

Edit: We’ve only seen a very small selection of what’s in the pack, to be fair. I think it would be awesome if - alongside the more bold thematic items - we also got some more versatile, general statues and decor for the new species. Maybe going forward, Frontier could do a split of themed and realistic build pieces in packs?

 

[Firestar97]

They could've done a Africa Animal Pack and maybe at some Point a Egypt Pack with this Building Set. I assume only the Fennec and the Scarab Beetle even live there due to the Rhino obviously being the Southern Subspecies and the Penguin only living in Coast Regions.
Hope we'll at least see also some more accurate Egyptian Statues. Don't think I would use them very often but it would be great to see Statues of Gods like Sobek, Ra and Anubis. Could be great for something like a Egypt Themed Cheetah Shelter. A Egyptian Style Cat Statue could also be nice.
But the Meerkat Statue is just weird

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

A cheetah statue would be great, they were even kept as pets in the antic, so they would right fit in. Also more love for the cheetah is allways appreciated

 

[Firestar97]

A cheetah statue would be great, they were even kept as pets in the antic, so they would right fit in. Also more love for the cheetah is allways appreciated

I think I've even built their Shelter in one of my Zoos based on that Fact. I think they were also used to help hunting. Also yes, more love for the Cheetah. We still need that Running Enrichment Item. It would be so awesome to see in the Game

 

[yoav_r]

I don’t have a problem with the concept of an Africa pack in general. Yes it’s a diverse and varied continent but so is South America.

I agree completely, but then it should've either been an animal pack or an actual generic african theme like the one already in the game. This "Egypt==Africa" thing is very bad optics to say the least.

 

[FoxyDee]

I may be more chill about it if it was not the only theme, like in SA pack, they had both bamboo pieces and temple pieces.

Or perhaps it has something to do with ZT2 nostalgy? I remember their African adventure had a Egypt theme, just as SA had temple theme just like ZT2:

 

[yoav_r]

I may be more chill about it if it was not the only theme, like in SA pack, they had both bamboo pieces and temple pieces.

Or perhaps it has something to do with ZT2 nostalgy? I remember their African adventure had a Egypt theme, just as SA had temple theme just like ZT2:

These pictures give me nostalgia, while also making me realuze how much better PZ is

 

[markun]

I agree completely, but then it should've either been an animal pack or an actual generic african theme like the one already in the game. This "Egypt==Africa" thing is very bad optics to say the least.

To be fair I’m not sure they are saying Egypt equals Africa.

Egypt is indeed part of Africa and it’s fair to highlight that architectural style with an African pack even if I think this constant Epcot style theming is often over the top and should be an extra once all the basic zoo building pieces are done.

In some ways it’s good as they are showing the diversity of African cultures, that it’s not just “safari”. Perhaps “generic Africa” is a bad optic as African cultures are many and diverse.

My issue is that the Egyptian meerkats are just bizarre and over the top and like you say, the two have nothing in common.

 

[yoav_r]

To be fair I’m not sure they are saying Egypt equals Africa.

Egypt is indeed part of Africa...
In some ways it’s good as they are showing the diversity of African cultures, that it’s not just “safari”.

My problem is that while egypt technically a part of Africa, it is culturally and ecologically disconnected from the rest of Africa. It is actually part of the middle east from a cultural/ecological persepective, and the division between north Africa (including Egypt) and the rest of Africa is actually larger than division between north Africa and Europe.

It would be more accurate (though still not accurate at all) to throw in Red deer and European Lynx in a north Africa theme than it is to throw south africa in.

 

[Chuditch]

This "Egypt==Africa" thing is very bad optics to say the least.

The building set is specified as "North Africa" though, they're not trying to sell it as a generic African theme because, like you said, we already have one. The Egyptian/Moorish architectural style is simply the most famous and iconic one remaining from Africa, hence why they chose it.

I don't understand what's so different about the theming this time that's getting everyone all riled up. Not all of the Arctic is Nordic, not all of South America is temples and bamboo, not all of Australia is rustic red desert, and not all of Africa is Egyptian/Moorish. We've always had animals come with themes that don't really fit them, for example Dall Sheep in the Arctic Pack and the Southern Cassowary in the Australia Pack (also arguably the Arctic Wolf and Koala). Frontier isn't trying to convey that there are North American wild sheep in Scandinavia or cassowaries in the Outback. I can understand that this is probably the first time that more animals don't fit the theme than do, but even so I really don't think it qualifies this kind of response. It's more of a problem with the trend of having the animal scenery items match the heavy theming chosen for the DLC rather than an issue for this pack specifically.

In the end, if you don't want Egyptian meerkats, just don't use them.

 

[markun]

My problem is that while egypt technically a part of Africa, it is culturally and ecologically disconnected from the rest of Africa. It is actually part of the middle east from a cultural/ecological persepective, and the division between north Africa (including Egypt) and the rest of Africa is actually larger than division between north Africa and Europe.

But North Africa, including Egypt is Africa. Just as much as Botswana or Kenya. Africa is diverse and those cultural and ecological disconnections show that.

Just like the most arid parts of southern Spain are equally European as the taiga forests of northern Sweden.

 

[Aramar]

When discussing what themes could be added to the game, the most commented African themes were Moroccan and Egyptian, so I think it's great that these are the chosen themes for an African pack to complete the theme that we already had.

The only "problem" I see is that the game lacks statues, so getting one for the meerkat in a style and size which might not be the most suitable one for that species is what is arising some concerns.

 

[Bearcat9948]

You're all correct that there is somewhat of a disconnect with the animals and the theming, but this really shouldn't be a surprise after the SA pack did the same thing, cram a huge and biodiverse continent and all of it's cultures into one tiny pack. And they did the same with Australia, it's just culturally that country is pretty homogenous comparably.

Also, I'm a huge nerd when it comes to Mediterranean ancient and classical history (random, I know). But I think I understand why the made the meerkat statues as they are. I'm pretty sure they take inspiration from the statues in the Tomb of the Valley of the Kings, which has nothing to do with meerkats, but is a big symbol of the ancient Egyptians.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Also imagine an undead Meercat overlord. Doesnt that spark joy in your hearts? I will make sure it wont do that for the players of my next DnD campain

 

[yoav_r]

You're all correct that there is somewhat of a disconnect with the animals and the theming, but this really shouldn't be a surprise after the SA pack did the same thing, cram a huge and biodiverse continent and all of it's cultures into one tiny pack. And they did the same with Australia, it's just culturally that country is pretty homogenous comparably.

Also, I'm a huge nerd when it comes to Mediterranean ancient and classical history (random, I know). But I think I understand why the made the meerkat statues as they are. I'm pretty sure they take inspiration from the statues in the Tomb of the Valley of the Kings, which has nothing to do with meerkats, but is a big symbol of the ancient Egyptians.

Oh, they definitely took inspiration from there, but then again sn animal much more fitting for recreating the statue would be the Hamadrayas Babboon, which actually lived in Egypt.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Oh, they definitely took inspiration from there, but then again sn animal much more fitting for recreating the statue would be the Hamadrayas Babboon, which actually lived in Egypt.

From a purely theming perspective sure, I mean the ancients did actually consider the Hamadrayas baboon to be sacred, which is why it's also known was the Sacred baboon. But, worth noting those don't stand upright like meerkats do, so the statues actually look good here imo.

 

[Firestar97]

Also imagine an undead Meercat overlord. Doesnt that spark joy in your hearts? I will make sure it wont do that for the players of my next DnD campain

Pet of Anubis. The grand Eater of Scorpions

From a purely theming perspective sure, I mean the ancients did actually consider the Hamadrayas baboon to be sacred, which is why it's also known was the Sacred baboon. But, worth noting those don't stand upright like meerkats do, so the statues actually look good here imo.

Thanks for the Information. Didn't know that Hamadryas Baboons were sacred. But now that I think about it, isn't there a Baboon headed God? I think his Name is Thot or something similar

At everyone who wants more generic Zoo Pieces, Tile Decorations will also be in the Pack, so I assume we'll also get a (hopefully Flexicolor) Tile Wall

 

[Bearcat9948]

Thanks for the Information. Didn't know that Hamadryas Baboons were sacred. But now that I think about it, isn't there a Baboon headed God? I think his Name is Thot or something similar

At everyone who wants more generic Zoo Pieces, Tile Decorations will also be in the Pack, so I assume we'll also get a (hopefully Flexicolor) Tile Wall

Thoth, the god of knowledge and writing, is more closely associated with the ibis, usually he's depicted with an ibis head. Which is also how the African sacred ibis got it's name lol. See a pattern there? Sad part is they're extirpated in Egypt atm.