Engineers The Engineers is turning into a deja vu for me

I run an Asp with deliberately down-graded shields and have no issues outrunning the interdictions.
Maybe you need to adjust your tactics rather than calling for a lowering of the standards?

If you're running cargo, fit a few mine launchers. At the very least it WILL cause them to slow down, alter their course, and give you a few seconds to get out.
Don't bother giving these people advice, they don't want to learn, they want the AI to simply sit in front of them and explode in pretty colors. They don't actually want to learn and improve because its too hard for them. Just ignore them and move on.
 
What DO you expect passenger missions to be? That's what you do with passengers - bring them from A to B safely. Probably get attacked by slavers all the way. Those billions of slaves on the markets have to come somewhere from.
If it brings nothing new and worthwhile, then do something else! Simple as...
 
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I kitted out a shieldless cobra with no engie upgrades and I went off to Sothis tonight for the first time, I got absolutely bored rigid going about collecting stuff and driving for hours in an SRV for the engies.

I put on up to lvl 3 upgrades all over my corvette, I cant really see much difference.

I think 3/4 of the player base are in Sothis area. I went back and forwards doing data missions about 5 times, got bored, no interdiction's at all. I took more damage landing on a pad than anything else.

So I took 1 snakey snake 3m'ish mission back about 400ls away, had 1 elite DBE interdiction, lost 20% hull, that's it.

I believe they are doing a lot on the server side everyday and fiddling with the NPC ai, we just don't get told much, probably why no dev update this week. A lot of meetings going on in FD and probably some heated debates.
 
Its a shame the Design Discussion Forum was scrapped. It had a wealth of experienced gamers to pitch ideas to and get feedback from. Yes it wasn't perfect, but nothing ever is. But with it gone we now seem to have a game being designed by people who grew up playing sonic the hedgehog, people who think repetitiveness is 'good gameplay'. Where did the imagination and innovation go? It's frustrating as the actual foundation of ED, it's visuals, sounds, and scope, are superb, but the actual content and gameplay seem like tacked on afterthoughts.

Thing is, the concept sounded great, the application less so
 
Don't bother giving these people advice, they don't want to learn, they want the AI to simply sit in front of them and explode in pretty colors. They don't actually want to learn and improve because its too hard for them. Just ignore them and move on.
What is this? Salt about salt? You a salty sea dog, mate, that's totally meta-saline.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Another issue that they have on the back burner is the problem of winging up. Here in Australia we cannot wing up with anyone in the US. Multiplayer has been in existence now for years and the tech is hardly new. I submitted a ticket and was told its an ongoing issue and get a vpn which I did. Yes, the vpn has fixed the issue to a large degree and its only a few dollars a month. The point is I shouldnt have to do it.

ED has massive potential, 2.1 for the most part is good, I love the missions however there is much that is not good and that needs to be fixed.

Yes it is quiet at FD this week.
Absolute rubbish it's an on going issue. How is MP an "issue" when every other game in existence pretty much does it perfectly fine? It's unbelievable it's in the shoddy state it's in right now and they had to add "Wings" like it was some marvel of the universe or something. They even boast (lol) about it in their list of "Expansions" we had through the first season like they just invented it or something. It's so lame it's laughable but also incredibly frustrating. Just admit you don't know how to code MP!

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Truely?! No hireable AI crew? I was skeptical at first (about multicrew), but now I am downright worried that FD have lost their minds. Why would you develop a MultiCrew system when the Netcode is not up to snuff and there are fewer players online at any given time? Doesn't make sense.
Did anyone stop to think passed..."multicrew"? So I'm in my ship and I pick you up - what exactly are you going to do in the co-pilots chair? Manage the pips? Sit in a turret? There's not enough to do on your own let alone another crew member and going by the half hearted, unfinished products we've had so far, this will be another one.
 
Did anyone stop to think passed..."multicrew"? So I'm in my ship and I pick you up - what exactly are you going to do in the co-pilots chair? Manage the pips? Sit in a turret? There's not enough to do on your own let alone another crew member and going by the half hearted, unfinished products we've had so far, this will be another one.
You'll get your own seat in the cockpit, and you'll be in control of at least five buttons...


That's five whole buttons?

Tell me more about these buttons; are some illuminated?

Head of Safety. Five buttons. I'm in!
 
ADid anyone stop to think passed..."multicrew"? So I'm in my ship and I pick you up - what exactly are you going to do in the co-pilots chair? Manage the pips? Sit in a turret? There's not enough to do on your own let alone another crew member and going by the half hearted, unfinished products we've had so far, this will be another one.
This is the worrying thing isn't it...

The Engineers has simply rebadged exactly what we've been doing for the last 18 months. ie: Now it sprinkles Materials randomly through the old gameplay for us to pick up.

So 2.2 will allow us to do the same gameplay as we've been doing for the past 18 months, now with an extra fighter to hand.

And 2.3 will allow us to do the same gameplay as we've been doing for the past 18 months, now with a group of CMDRs on a single ship.


Just imagine if the development time for "The Engineers" had implemented some gameplay that 2.2 and 2.3 could have utilised? eg: Convoy escort/protect missions, ideally with Wing support and/or NPC wing craft you could jsut instruct attack this/defend that/retreat. Straight away, in 2.1 you'd have that new gameplay to enjoy. And then with 2.2 and 2.3 those new mechanics could then be employed within it to. eg:-
  • In 2.2, you could instruct your main craft what to do (defend this!), while you do something else in your fighter.
  • In 2.3, a CMDR (multi-crew) could be instructing the NPC Wingmen what to do.

Add to this, those same missions/mechanics could have also been used in Powerplay/CGs maybe?
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
Exactly this.
They need to replace tedium with challenge.
I understand why they put the 200 lavaian brandy req on unlocking an engineer, because that wanted to make it difficult to get to, and have a sort of progression of content. But it's really not difficult at all, just extremely tedious.
They need to change the mindset from making things painfully tedious to making them challenging. Tell us where the rare elements are or give us the in-game tools to find them, and then like Erimus said, make them challenging to retrieve.

I also think an engineer specific missions board is sorely needed. Allow us to unlock engineer services by allowing us to do things for them until we build up enough rep with them. This allows the player to choose what type of content they want to play to reach the goal, as opposed to the arbitrary (and painful) "bring me 200 tons of rare brandy".
It's weird to read all these posts about tedium and not enough to do because many of us have been screaming this since day 1, that the game needed more depth to it and back before any updates were released there was a whole crowd saying how "perfect" the game was - at 1.0! This is exactly what many people feared that if FD kept on going down this road, it was going to spell disaster for the game. With all the negativity that this patch has caused with even more grind and then the complaints about the way too difficult AI (coupled with the decision to include AI with modded weapons) so people are now saying they're too scared to even launch, it's about time they hired a lead game developer who knows what they're doing before they release the next massive grindfest and kill the game for good.

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In all fairness I've never seen how big the development team is for ED. Could have 6 people for all i know. [squeeeee]
This is a dev team of 1 guy, all by himself.....


[video=youtube;Kti6jlpKFIU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLmfwphtkQOc64s6uyIhBBMNRZo4Oqa8TN&v=Kti6jlpKFIU[/video]
 
they should just get rid of any materials taking up cargo space. problem solved.
That's problem created, not problem solved.

You are saying if I get a reward of 2 tons of Modular connectors, that I know I need for an Engineer mod (longer FSD jump range) but don't yet have one material, your solution is I should throw the commodity away? How does that solve any problem? That just loses any and all progress I just made, especially when some of these mission reward cargos are rare. We need a way to store these items off-ship.

Problem 2. Assuming I have all the materials needed for the mod blueprint, I then cannot take the ship I want upgraded to the engineer unless I buy a cargo rack for it and I cannot do that without swapping to the ship that doesn't have a cargo rack without discarding the cargo. Now need to do mission again (assuming it is even available).

There are gaping holes in the Engineers game mechanic right now that can only be worked around, by only ever working on one blueprint at a time that requires commodities and getting them last, after all required materials. And having cargo racks on every ship.

Without the means to "hand in" commodities to the engineers prior to blueprint completion or a storage mechanic that is off-ship, there are problems. Throwing stuff away is a setback, not a solution.
 
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That's problem created, not problem solved.

You are saying if I get a reward of 2 tons of Modular connectors, that I know I need for an Engineer mod (longer FSD jump range) but don't yet have one material, your solution is I should throw the commodity away? How does that solve any problem? That just loses any and all progress I just made, especially when some of these mission reward cargos are rare. We need a way to store these items off-ship.

Problem 2. Assuming I have all the materials needed for the mod blueprint, I then cannot take the ship I want upgraded to the engineer unless I buy a cargo rack for it and I cannot do that without swapping to the ship that doesn't have a cargo rack without discarding the cargo. Now need to do mission again (assuming it is even available).

There are gaping holes in the Engineers game mechanic right now that can only be worked around, by only ever working on one blueprint at a time that requires commodities and getting them last, after all required materials. And having cargo racks on every ship.

Without the means to "hand in" commodities to the engineers prior to blueprint completion or a storage mechanic that is off-ship, there are problems. Throwing stuff away is a setback, not a solution.
What he means is that nothing required for crafting should take up cargo space. That's how I read it.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
I have been pretty vocal in my views on the RNG implementation we have seen in the Engineers. I would like to add my voice to this thread and say that I feel much the same as the OP. This update has sapped the enthusiasm for Elite out of me, partly due to the way the new content has been implemented, and party due to how the devs have explained it in the videos during Beta.

As much as I thought Power Play was useless, then at least it was possible to completely ignore, and it was obvious it came from a wish to introduce more depth to the game. The Engineers on the other hand has been introduced with obvious time-sinks which serve no other purpose than to delay the players access to the mods. These include:

- Rep grind for higher mod levels
- RNG looting mechanism making high grade materials exceedingly rare
- RNG results from upgrades with large variations of stats (300% or more) rendering upgrades potentially useless, meaning that the player will have to try again.

Whoever thought this was a good way to keep their players interested in the game really needs a time out, and someone else needs to be put in charge of the major gameplay decisions.

I have tried to fly again a bit this week, but every time I log on I am reminded of the Engineers presence in the game, and sooner or later I will be forced to participate if I wish to compete with the NPC's as many of them are running modded hardware allowing them to fly faster and be more agile than ever before. From what I understand this is planned to be increased over time. As the grind seems insurmountable to me (not to mention enormously boring) I might just quit instead.
Just uninstall Horizons - 1.6 all the way, baby! :p

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If they are just a delivery missions, or basically go to A via B... I'll suspect I'll just give up hoping ED will ever progress... ie: If we're getting yet another development just to basically add more of the same, rather than investing that time in moving game play forwards to challenging involved game play...
In FE2 you picked up a passenger. If you didn't have a cabin installed when you got to the other end you were scratching your head why you had a ton of frozen meat instead (ROFL - loved that about FE2). Now on the way you might get attacked by someone after that contact but the poster answering you is saying they'll be more complex but how?

What is in the game right now to support anything more complex and what else is there to do with them other than deliver them from point A to point B with some tiny variation. Given they way things have been developed, I fully expect "passengers" to be half baked.

Additional: Thinking more about it, you're going to need cabin space so expect a new module or 2 and how is that going to help you collect materials for Engineers? Swap the cargo rack for cabin space and...... say goodbye to upgraded ENG modules.
 
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Instead building upon the game there is constant fixing, adjusting and changing basic mechanics. Seems like you do not think ahead, validate design before coding.

Galaxy is big, make those alien races finally and give them those super weapons instead equipping every single pirate with the high tech upgrades.

I really wish the 'fair' play would return, and auto scaling enemies to your rank/ship would be gone.
It's like a Bethesda game, no matter where you go, you always find enemies scaled to your level. This makes game shallow and boring once you figure this out.
 
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Sorry....

- We’re also increasing the number of units you get for each instance of a material you find. This means instead of getting one unit of a material, you will get multiple units of that material. This will allow you to increase the number of attempts at each Engineer.

- We’ll be increasing the number of materials spawned when surface mining. Again, to make the process easier and the materials easier to gather.

- The likelihood of finding rare materials in these instances will also be increased, meaning it will be easier to use higher level blueprints.
This is Powerplay all over again.

A messy onerous design is created. It frustrates the players, so it's made "less annoying" by simply trying to "reward" CMDRs more/expose them less to it.


It does nothing to address the core design issue, the inane cynical design, but simply tries to throw a cheap fix out in order to make the problem go away.

Infact, the thought of even MORE UNITS getting spawned for example in bounty hunting hits me as just making it even more annoying. Even more spam!


Unsurprisingly, I'd much prefer The Engineers to simply step away from this cantankerous overzealous design, by the more laid back approach I proposed here - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/265454-An-even-simpler-streamline-for-Engineers!-Cutting-a-whole-level-of-faff-out-with-very-minor-changes






Not to mention the changes that we’ve made in the recent point update. To be able to select your weapon upgrade and give you control over what module you leave with, reducing the requirements to unlock certain Engineers and increasing the visibility of where materials can be sourced, should help to make the Engineers more accessible and more rewarding for players venturing down to the planet surface in search of a new upgrade.
So how does making it easier, making it easier and making it easier make it more rewarding? Maybe the gameplay itself should be designed in the first place to be so? Strangely just loading the dice so we throw nicer numbers is not "more rewarding" IMHO.
 
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It's weird to read all these posts about tedium and not enough to do because many of us have been screaming this since day 1, that the game needed more depth to it and back before any updates were released there was a whole crowd saying how "perfect" the game was - at 1.0! This is exactly what many people feared that if FD kept on going down this road, it was going to spell disaster for the game. With all the negativity that this patch has caused with even more grind and then the complaints about the way too difficult AI (coupled with the decision to include AI with modded weapons) so people are now saying they're too scared to even launch, it's about time they hired a lead game developer who knows what they're doing before they release the next massive grindfest and kill the game for good.

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This is a dev team of 1 guy, all by himself.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLmfwphtkQOc64s6uyIhBBMNRZo4Oqa8TN&v=Kti6jlpKFIU

Pretty impressive for 1 person.

I might look into this game. Been looking for other space exploration games to play.
 
NeilF is right, rather than wasting time and resources to create unique new gameplay (which are really bad by the way) like powerplay or engineers that are isolated from one another, they should rather focus on improving already great gameplay's and ally them together to create even better gameplay and interactions.

Get rid of the RNG, stop creating useless and random mechanics, and start working on the true core of Elite -> missions, basic professions bounty hunter, traders, pirates, explorers, smugglers...


Stop wasting our time and your time and begin to create some usefull stuff.
 
What DO you expect passenger missions to be? That's what you do with passengers - bring them from A to B safely. Probably get attacked by slavers all the way. Those billions of slaves on the markets have to come somewhere from.
Well, there is this tourist thing.
It could of course be something funny.
But as things have developed, I fear that tourist-missions will be much like slavery-missions; only legal.

What are the tourists to do, once at their destination?
Just look at some pretty planet?
Most suggestions included nothing but pretty pictures of this.
 
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