Engineers The Engineers is turning into a deja vu for me

I feel that the mechanics in place for the engineers, may be more fun for players who are just starting out. I found it frustrating to actively search for micro resources but it feels rewarding if you stumble across them.

My advice would be to carry on doing what you enjoy and simply treat them as added optional 'spice'

True, but the problem is then you're typically collecting materials, which then you will maxing out. So what the game is then implying is that you should go and use these materials productively. How? By crafting...

But if you don't have a couple of materials you need? Then off you go down this path of the game "forcing you" to undertake stuff you're not interested in, and worse still by pretty much grind-RND mechanics, find what you need...

That's why I've suggested this - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...with-very-minor-changes?p=4096715#post4096715

A small change that ultimately results in a more laid-back approach (to quote myself) - "...if you only enjoy mining, and that gives you at least one material an Engineer is interested in, then that's theoretically enough to level up and pay for crafting (quite likely at a slow rate mind)."


IMHO, until The Engineers mechanics back off a bit and become less onerous, they almost feel they they're getting in the way.
 
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I feel that the mechanics in place for the engineers, may be more fun for players who are just starting out. I found it frustrating to actively search for micro resources but it feels rewarding if you stumble across them.

My advice would be to carry on doing what you enjoy and simply treat them as added optional 'spice'


Yes, I wanted to do that but once I had an engineers commodity in my cargo hold I couldn't switch to my combat ships anymore. So, I'm ignoring The Engineers until it is thoroughly redesigned. (I said that of Powerplay at the time.) The deeper issue for me is that I'm getting more and more afraid this game is going in a direction that I don't like at all. But I can't really be sure because there is so little information form FDEV. All the while I keep seeing the huge potential of the game and I keep hoping a miracle occurs...
 
It's not that it's difficult it's just that it's boring.
I can't help but agree.
To upgrade my ships, is something I really want to do.
REALLY want to do.
So; for me that is what I "have to" do first.
But now the collecting of stuff is putting a break on my whole game.

Doing missions.
Shooting someone down.
Driving a lot.
I have certainly gotten some upgrades, but some bad encounters with the Farseer Bingo, makes it certain that I "have to" do it once more.
Then there is my other ships.

I just have to stop and do something else.
Which is a drag, because; I actually WANT to fly more in my spaceship and ships.

I have been reluctant do give in like this, but now I can't really help it.

In Beta, the Engineers where great.
Everyone seemed really pleased and happy with the upgrades.
I was with mine.

This is a game.
I am of the opinion that something should be done.

Some kind of marked for those that don't feel like grinding, would be nice.

It's all for love.
 
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I feel that the mechanics in place for the engineers, may be more fun for players who are just starting out. I found it frustrating to actively search for micro resources but it feels rewarding if you stumble across them.

My advice would be to carry on doing what you enjoy and simply treat them as added optional 'spice'

I feel that's reasonably good advice. Just threw some PvE pew pew last night I managed to pick up some rare materials (although the timer on them disappearing is rather frustrating in a Python) but I'm in no rush to spend it all.
 
I'm enjoying the engineers, but like others who are, I'm treating it as a long term activity rather than something I must have now.

I agree the RNG on RNG is not rewarding, some sort of skill based game play would be far better.

I'm not grinding I'm just playing doing missions, PvE combat, exploring and Buckyball racing as I want to and collecting the mats that drop or are awarded.

The engineers upgrades I'm interested in at the moment are FSD range and thruster speed. I have gone for Elvira and Palin. So I did find the 25 modular terminal from missions a slight grind. The 25 UF for Palin was also on the edge of becoming a grind for me but I was exploring at the same time so not so bad. I achieved both of those in a 3 evening though so it was no big deal.

By the time I had unlocked Qwent and Palin I was able to hit level 3 with all my engineers just from stuff I had collected along the way.

It will be interesting to see what the next point release will contain, but I can't see there being radical changes. Hopefully they can take the forum uproar on board for 2.2 and beyond.

1.1 - CG - use
1.2 - Wings - use ocasionally
1.3 - PP - don't use, consider it sometimes but doesn't really sound fun
1.4 - CQC - used occasionally, I like it but just prefer the main game and my time is limited
1.5 - Ships - I like collecting ships, I bought the iEagle from 1.5 (was it from 1.5?)
2.0 - Planetary Landings - used loads on DWE, but mostly only if a mission requires it now
2.1 - Engineers - use


 
I feel that the mechanics in place for the engineers, may be more fun for players who are just starting out. I found it frustrating to actively search for micro resources but it feels rewarding if you stumble across them.

My advice would be to carry on doing what you enjoy and simply treat them as added optional 'spice'

Gonna add my voice to what others already said, and say this doesn't work. I first started out doing this, and what I got was hundreds of materials I couldn't use for pretty much anything except a few (not even all) of the grade 1 upgrades. So if you want the upgrades you actually can't just do what you enjoy best. And that would normally be fine, pushing people out of their comfort zones. But not with how grindy, tedious and time consuming it is. Here's my experience so far.

You cannot get anything past that by randomly trying to get materials as you come across them. You won't get polonium except if the RNG decides you get one as a mission reward. You won't get wake scans if you do not go out of your way and build a wake scanner ship unless the RNG decides you get one as a mission reward.

So you start to think that if you just go and do the suggested activities to get the materials, since mission rewards are totally random, you'll be rewarded with them. So if I need chemical processors, I guess I should hunt hauling ships. So I go do that and discover that it's a double stuffed layer of RNG - I need an instance that gives me haulers, and I need that hauler to drop what I need. But ok, I preservere, and eventually get a few processors. By this point it's been about an hour in and I've covered 25% of a blueprints' requirements.

So I estimate that all going this poorly I should at worst expect a grade 3 upgrade every 4 in game hours. Daunting to say the least.

I got a few engineers to grade 5 and I got two FSD grade 5 upgrades. I had a spreadsheet of the local systems and what they dropped that I did out of fun during 2.0, and while building it I got adept at the wave scanner and driving the srv. Because I consider the FSD upgrade an anti-tedium upgrade, I want it on all my ships. So I went out for some more polonium. And 5 in game hours later I am 3 polonium richer. It was at this point I gave up.

There's almost no skill involved in collecting these mats. The mats that required the most in my experience were the military ones - flying, killing and surviving in a combat zone while scooping. Everything else is just doing something that involves a whole lot of zero gameplay, a ton of downtime, and hoping the RNG decides you deserve your bi-hourly polonium.

-

The problem as I see it can be illustrated by comparing Engineers to Diablo 3 and its crafting system and drop system. In that game, you accumulate crafting materials by playing the game. You can't miss them, quite literally. Playing more of course results in more materials. However there you don't just get crafting materials to upgrade your vendor sword, you also want the legendary weapons and armor that you can only obtain by playing. It's still RNG and the drop rates are even lower than the ridiculous that is the polonium drop rate here, but the way they've avoided making it unfun is that you progress as you're doing it - you may not get the amazing weapon you wanted, or it may not have dropped the stats you wanted, but you gained money, avatar experience, collected other pieces of loot that you can trade and had fun with three other humans - and you roll the die extremely often at the high end, giving you a motivation to progress with your character and making them more efficient.

The crafting materials and system are where the clearest comparison can be made between that game and this one. Once you have your imperfect legendary weapon or armor you approach the enchantress and select just one of the item's many properties to reroll a stat on, keeping everything else the same. Each reroll will have a material cost associated, and you can keep the original roll or choose a new one out of the 4 or so possibilities. So unless you had the godliest, best possible drop originally, being able to tweak your gear won't eliminate your quest for finding the same item but better, because there can be as many as 9 other properties you could not touch. Thus the player's motivation remains intact.

Hunting for polonium is none of that, it's just anti-progress every session it doesn't drop. With how long anything and everything takes, only at the end to get awful results ends just being demotivating. It's quite impressive really how the same system in two games results in really different player experiences.

-

The way I would fix it without remaking the entire system would be to drastically improve drop rates on the lower end - if polonium, going by another thread's figures, has about a 1% drop rate, I'd increase that to somewhere between a 25-50% drop rate. Failing that I would make rocks spawn on planets a lot more densely, so you can roll the die more often.

If I had my way, I would make everything take some degree of skill to gather, the more skill required for the rarer items. Time isn't skill.


Sorry that this turned into a bit of a rant

Edit: Since we're doing game features we use or not:

1.1 CG - Nope
1.2 Wings - All the time, if only they worked properly
1.3 PP - Was how I originally made vast riches, didn't use it for its intended purpose apart from that tho. Now I use it if/when I need a module for some ship I'm using.
1.4 CQC - I used it as often as I could, if only it wasn't severly lacking in features, it would be what I would play the most
1.5 Ships - Got them all, cool additions overall
2.0 Planetary landings - Very fun, brought the game closer to Elite 2 and expanded on it, it's just fun if totally pointless for progression. Being forced to do it in the way I described it earlier killed it for me however.
2.1 Engineers - Needs tweaking urgently, would use it constantly after said tweaking
 
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A diablo 3 reroll for one stat service would be an amazing addition (in the sense of giving some control
over the RNG module stats to the players).

Also : I really think that having 70+ crafting mats is part of the problem. I hope FD considers adding barter markets
where you can exchange some materials for others (think jawas+junkyard) with an exchange rate between the different
grades. Or : a mechanic like in the Witcher, where you can dismantle/combine materials to get others (and TBH, the Witcher has a
lot of crafting materials, however the ability to dismantle/combine materials aleviates a lot of problems).

+1
 
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Gonna add my voice to what others already said, and say this doesn't work. I first started out doing this, and what I got was hundreds of materials I couldn't use for pretty much anything except a few (not even all) of the grade 1 upgrades. So if you want the upgrades you actually can't just do what you enjoy best. And that would normally be fine, pushing people out of their comfort zones. But not with how grindy, tedious and time consuming it is. Here's my experience so far.

You cannot get anything past that by randomly trying to get materials as you come across them. You won't get polonium except if the RNG decides you get one as a mission reward. You won't get wake scans if you do not go out of your way and build a wake scanner ship unless the RNG decides you get one as a mission reward.

So you start to think that if you just go and do the suggested activities to get the materials, since mission rewards are totally random, you'll be rewarded with them. So if I need chemical processors, I guess I should hunt hauling ships. So I go do that and discover that it's a double stuffed layer of RNG - I need an instance that gives me haulers, and I need that hauler to drop what I need. But ok, I preservere, and eventually get a few processors. By this point it's been about an hour in and I've covered 25% of a blueprints' requirements.

So I estimate that all going this poorly I should at worst expect a grade 3 upgrade every 4 in game hours. Daunting to say the least.

I got a few engineers to grade 5 and I got two FSD grade 5 upgrades. I had a spreadsheet of the local systems and what they dropped that I did out of fun during 2.0, and while building it I got adept at the wave scanner and driving the srv. Because I consider the FSD upgrade an anti-tedium upgrade, I want it on all my ships. So I went out for some more polonium. And 5 in game hours later I am 3 polonium richer. It was at this point I gave up.

There's almost no skill involved in collecting these mats. The mats that required the most in my experience were the military ones - flying, killing and surviving in a combat zone while scooping. Everything else is just doing something that involves a whole lot of zero gameplay, a ton of downtime, and hoping the RNG decides you deserve your bi-hourly polonium.

-

The problem as I see it can be illustrated by comparing Engineers to Diablo 3 and its crafting system and drop system. In that game, you accumulate crafting materials by playing the game. You can't miss them, quite literally. Playing more of course results in more materials. However there you don't just get crafting materials to upgrade your vendor sword, you also want the legendary weapons and armor that you can only obtain by playing. It's still RNG and the drop rates are even lower than the ridiculous that is the polonium drop rate here, but the way they've avoided making it unfun is that you progress as you're doing it - you may not get the amazing weapon you wanted, or it may not have dropped the stats you wanted, but you gained money, avatar experience, collected other pieces of loot that you can trade and had fun with three other humans - and you roll the die extremely often at the high end, giving you a motivation to progress with your character and making them more efficient.

The crafting materials and system are where the clearest comparison can be made between that game and this one. Once you have your imperfect legendary weapon or armor you approach the enchantress and select just one of the item's many properties to reroll a stat on, keeping everything else the same. Each reroll will have a material cost associated, and you can keep the original roll or choose a new one out of the 4 or so possibilities. So unless you had the godliest, best possible drop originally, being able to tweak your gear won't eliminate your quest for finding the same item but better, because there can be as many as 9 other properties you could not touch. Thus the player's motivation remains intact.

Hunting for polonium is none of that, it's just anti-progress every session it doesn't drop. With how long anything and everything takes, only at the end to get awful results ends just being demotivating. It's quite impressive really how the same system in two games results in really different player experiences.

-

The way I would fix it without remaking the entire system would be to drastically improve drop rates on the lower end - if polonium, going by another thread's figures, has about a 1% drop rate, I'd increase that to somewhere between a 25-50% drop rate. Failing that I would make rocks spawn on planets a lot more densely, so you can roll the die more often.

If I had my way, I would make everything take some degree of skill to gather, the more skill required for the rarer items. Time isn't skill.


Sorry that this turned into a bit of a rant

Edit: Since we're doing game features we use or not:

1.1 CG - Nope
1.2 Wings - All the time, if only they worked properly
1.3 PP - Was how I originally made vast riches, didn't use it for its intended purpose apart from that tho. Now I use it if/when I need a module for some ship I'm using.
1.4 CQC - I used it as often as I could, if only it wasn't severly lacking in features, it would be what I would play the most
1.5 Ships - Got them all, cool additions overall
2.0 Planetary landings - Very fun, brought the game closer to Elite 2 and expanded on it, it's just fun if totally pointless for progression. Being forced to do it in the way I described it earlier killed it for me however.
2.1 Engineers - Needs tweaking urgently, would use it constantly after said tweaking

That is interesting. I'm playing like Kerrash but I have one advantage in that I did loads of prospecting for jump mats e.g. arsenic, yttrium and polonium in 2.0 for use as jump mats that in the end I didn't need. So I have plenty of element mats and have picked up the rarer manufactured mats from missions as I go. So I have not had to drive round in the SRV at all since 2.1 unless required by a mission.

I too would prefer it to be skill based over RNG.

I can't see a major change from FD. I'd be happy if they increased the mats drop rate a bit and made it so higher level upgrades could never be worse than lower level ones.
 
I did loads of prospecting for jump mats e.g. arsenic, yttrium and polonium in 2.0 for use as jump mats that in the end I didn't need.

That was my case too. The FSD upgrades I did were all done from leftover polonium from jumponium mining.

Which brings up another thing I can't confirm, being RNG and all - I believe the drop rates were heavily nerfed for engineers, because I don't recall polonium ever being this insanely hard to get.
 
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I am not a fleet person, I've always just kept one ship. That is my play style. One man, one ship.
I've achieved my personal goal of obtaining a corvette, because that's the ship I love, nothing to do with play style.
I just like bigger ships that I think have style. I'm waiting to be able to walk around inside.
Anyway.
1.1 CG - did a few times, a long time ago.
1.2 Wings - tried it a long time ago with my son, it was too buggy, besides there are no joint co-op missions.
1.3 PP - tried it initially, but found it to be mindless.
1.4 CQC - not my cup of tea, separate game altogether.
1.5 Ships - not bothered, more ships are always good (FDev took the easy path with versions of ships).
2.0 Planetary landings - only to drive around and collect materials for Engineers, which sucks. Might bet better gameplay with atmospheres.
2.1 Engineers - the mechanics suck too much, plus it forces play styles on you.
 
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I can't help but agree.
To upgrade my ships, is something I really want to do.
REALLY want to do.
So; for me that is what I "have to" do first.
But now the collecting of stuff is putting a break on my whole game.

Doing missions.
Shooting someone down.
Driving a lot.
I have certainly gotten some upgrades, but some bad encounters with the Farseer Bingo, makes it certain that I "have to" to it once more.
Then there is my other ships.

I just have to stop and do something else.
Which is a drag, because; I actually WANT to fly more in my spaceship and ships.

I have been reluctant do give in like this, but now I can't really help it.

In Beta, the Engineers where great.
Everyone seemed really pleased and happy with the upgrades.
I was with mine.

This is a game.
I am of the opinion that something should be done.

Some kind of marked for those that don't feel like grinding, would be nice.

It's all for love.
Market in game where players could sell exess stuff they collect and buy what they lack could fix everything. But... /
 
So, this is the question I have right now: Where is this game heading for? Right now I'm afraid this good looking, semi-scientifically accurate Galaxy with its unique, great sounding ships and huge potential for sci-fi adventures is heading to become the backdrop for 24/7 combat mayhem that you have to grind special weapons for to survive. I'd really like an answer to that question soon(tm).

Judging from FDev's actions and feature priorities, yes that is a safe bet as to where Elite is headed. And soonish too.

But yeah, I'm feeling deja vu as well. Most of Elites new major features have been misses for me as well, going down the list like others

1.1 CG - yeah, occasionally, I like the CG's
1.2 Wings - nope, only a few times on the Distant Worlds journey, other than that never used wings
1.3 PP - tried it at first, but when I realized the huge grind fest coupled with the entire galaxy interdicting you everywhere I unpledged and never went back
1.4 CQC - I've played it a handful of times since it came out, maybe one hour total?
1.5 Ships - eh, I fly the Asp 90% of the time, and until some new decent exploration ship gets added that won't change
2.0 Planetary landings - yes, use this all the time, its the single best feature for me since release day!
2.1 Engineers - man, I'm trying to use them, but the RNG and grind wall is so steep that I'm quickly feeling like I just want to avoid them like Power Play and CQC

Looking foward:

2.3 Fighters - nope, nothing there for me
2.4 Multicrew - again, sadly worthless to me
3.0 ?? - I may just skip the third season at this rate
[blah]

In my honest opinion, FDev needs to stop implementing new features and spend one entire season fixing up and fleshing out the ones they already have. Like seriously put in a LOT of rework and content to existing features. The common complaint about Elite is that it’s a mile wide but an inch deep, and it’s true honestly. FDev needs to deepen every facet of the game a couple of inches. Flesh out bounty hunting mechanics, add trading tools, give pirates added tools to steal cargo without needing to destroy their targets, make the BGS more interactive, give some long overdue and serious content love to exploration, rebalance mining to be more rewarding, fix Power Play to be more interactive and less punishing to casual play, incorporate CQC into the main game world, add in functional multiplayer tools to make playing together both easier and worthwhile, and yeah make the engineers less grindy and more rewarding to time investment. The game needs ALL of that much, MUCH more than either fighters or multi-crew mechanics.

When you get a good foundation you start building the house on it, but FDev just keeps building more foundations while never starting any houses on the foundations they already have….
 
Judging from FDev's actions and feature priorities, yes that is a safe bet as to where Elite is headed. And soonish too.

But yeah, I'm feeling deja vu as well. Most of Elites new major features have been misses for me as well, going down the list like others

1.1 CG - yeah, occasionally, I like the CG's
1.2 Wings - nope, only a few times on the Distant Worlds journey, other than that never used wings
1.3 PP - tried it at first, but when I realized the huge grind fest coupled with the entire galaxy interdicting you everywhere I unpledged and never went back
1.4 CQC - I've played it a handful of times since it came out, maybe one hour total?
1.5 Ships - eh, I fly the Asp 90% of the time, and until some new decent exploration ship gets added that won't change
2.0 Planetary landings - yes, use this all the time, its the single best feature for me since release day!
2.1 Engineers - man, I'm trying to use them, but the RNG and grind wall is so steep that I'm quickly feeling like I just want to avoid them like Power Play and CQC

Looking foward:

2.3 Fighters - nope, nothing there for me
2.4 Multicrew - again, sadly worthless to me
3.0 ?? - I may just skip the third season at this rate
[blah]

In my honest opinion, FDev needs to stop implementing new features and spend one entire season fixing up and fleshing out the ones they already have. Like seriously put in a LOT of rework and content to existing features. The common complaint about Elite is that it’s a mile wide but an inch deep, and it’s true honestly. FDev needs to deepen every facet of the game a couple of inches. Flesh out bounty hunting mechanics, add trading tools, give pirates added tools to steal cargo without needing to destroy their targets, make the BGS more interactive, give some long overdue and serious content love to exploration, rebalance mining to be more rewarding, fix Power Play to be more interactive and less punishing to casual play, incorporate CQC into the main game world, add in functional multiplayer tools to make playing together both easier and worthwhile, and yeah make the engineers less grindy and more rewarding to time investment. The game needs ALL of that much, MUCH more than either fighters or multi-crew mechanics.

When you get a good foundation you start building the house on it, but FDev just keeps building more foundations while never starting any houses on the foundations they already have….

Please Read that Frontier.
 
In my honest opinion, FDev needs to stop implementing new features and spend one entire season fixing up and fleshing out the ones they already have.
.
/sign
.
If they would announce that they do a 6 months season of "bugfixing and polishing" with no new content, but rather bringing old content up to shape, I'd be ready to immediately buy the season pass for that.
 
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.
/sign
.
If they would announce that they do a 6 months season of "bugfixing and polishing" with no new content, but rather bringing old content up to shape, I'd be ready to immediately buy the season pass for that.

I second that sentiment. FD, make it happen. Please?
 
Market in game where players could sell exess stuff they collect and buy what they lack could fix everything. But... /
Exactly!
Something like that would be, in my mind, a perfect solution.

I'm sure a lot of Commanders like to fly and drive around and collect stuff; for those a controlled market solution could be a way of making good Credits.
People out on exploration could gather special stuff and make a good buck when returning home - in addition to exploration data.
And people like me could buy stuff we needed and be happy, even if one of the bingos kicked us in the jewels - hopefully not to hard, not to often.

The stuff can, for my part, have a steep price; that's ok.
Don't have to be insane, though! [squeeeee]
And the markets that handles such goods, should pay those that gathered and sold it equally well, of course.
But I will know where to go; and then go back to play my way.
And hopefully the market or markets will be not to far away; so when I upgrade my Imperial Eagle, I won't have to do a thousand jumps.

I am very confident that if done well, such a marked solution will make more or less everyone happy.
This way we CAN blaze our OWN trail.

Win, win, for all.
This is how I see it.

It's all for love!

[video=youtube_share;9X_ViIPA-Gc]https://youtu.be/9X_ViIPA-Gc[/video]
 
Ladies and Gentlemen.

Making comments on replacing FD staff members because *Reasons* is not tolerated.

Please desist.
Job security concerns or what? I thought this was a forum. Saying the game designers should be replaced because they're incompetent isn't an issue so stop trying to censore legitimate concerns.
 
This is a depressing thread to read, because I agree with a lot that is being said.

I loved Elite and Frontier, backed the Kickstarter on day one and have a lifetime expansion pass. I want the game to succeed. But, like so many on this thread, the additions to the game have been underwhelming:

1.1 - Community Goals - I've done a couple.
1.2 - Wings - I've done this a couple of times, but I don't get enough time to play as it is, let alone requiring me to arrange times with friends.
1.3 - PowerPlay - Not interested. The play mechanics are too obvious.
1.4 - CQC - Not interested
1.5 - Ships - Okay, I guess. But I wish we had more varied ships (and more ships from the original series)
2.0 - Planetary Landings - I like this, but there does need to be more content.
2.1 - Engineers - Not interested.

The big issue for me is that the game doesn't hide its mechanics well enough:

Powerplay is the most obvious example of this. A game of Risk layered on top of the game. It's totally unbelievable and the terminology in the game "Powerplay", "Command Capital", "Cycles" etc. would work well in a board game, but not in a simulation of the galaxy. Similarly, USS and POI are so blatantly randomly generated that I have no reason to care. If I drop into a USS and find a wrecked ship, there's no background story. It's just a wrecked ship. Other game mechanics are similarly crude: Why do so many pirate ships keep flying to RES when they presumably know there is a strong police presence? Why are some ships just slowly flying in USS in a wing and not supercrusing? Why are ships choosing to gather in a particular spot in space for a conflict zone? At least 2.1 brought a reason for ships to actually be at Nav Beacons (possibly one of the best addition to the game for me!).

I want to play in a believable galaxy. I would love to see proper, persistent NPCs that allow us to interact with them (beyond shooting). NPCs that are flying from A to B because it makes sense, carrying cargo because the local system market is paying well for it. NPC wings going on missions themselves against pirate gangs. I want to be able to work things out for myself as a character in the galaxy, not depend on Google, forums and other out-of-game resources to play successfully.

The new missions system is an improvement, but I play less now than before and subsequently care less too. I play for a couple of hours a week maximum, take on a few missions (all of which I've failed, possibly due to spawning bugs), so have no time for grinding for the Engineers. I've seen new materials and things being scanned which I assume is for the crafting and looting functionality, but I don't have the time, or inclination, to invest in working out how it all hangs together.

I really hope Frontier get things back on track. A return of the DDF may help (although I wasn't a member of the original), but I suspect many of the updates won't make much of an impact on primarily lone gamers like myself.
 
In my honest opinion, FDev needs to stop implementing new features and spend one entire season fixing up and fleshing out the ones they already have. Like seriously put in a LOT of rework and content to existing features. The common complaint about Elite is that it’s a mile wide but an inch deep, and it’s true honestly. FDev needs to deepen every facet of the game a couple of inches. Flesh out bounty hunting mechanics, add trading tools, give pirates added tools to steal cargo without needing to destroy their targets, make the BGS more interactive, give some long overdue and serious content love to exploration, rebalance mining to be more rewarding, fix Power Play to be more interactive and less punishing to casual play, incorporate CQC into the main game world, add in functional multiplayer tools to make playing together both easier and worthwhile, and yeah make the engineers less grindy and more rewarding to time investment. The game needs ALL of that much, MUCH more than either fighters or multi-crew mechanics.

When you get a good foundation you start building the house on it, but FDev just keeps building more foundations while never starting any houses on the foundations they already have….

This, +1, except just drop Powerplay and CQC and put those design and dev resources back on the main game, and fix and improve missions as well. And the hair. In the name of all that is holy, fix the hair. Well, OK, fix all the other stuff first, but get to the hair soon (tm). Or maybe just get rid of it too, and retcon a bald lore universe.
 
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