The epic fail of the epic fail of Beyond!

[Surprised Brony]

Well, if you must...

Starting with 2.2 (The Guardians):-
Implementation of NPC crew is halfassed in that it doesn't allow NPCs any functionality aboard your ship.
SLFs are halfassed in that they can't be deployed at the same time as an SRV.
NPC crew are halfassed in that they have no detailed 3D models.
Mission structure halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.3 (The Commanders):-
Holo-Me is halfassed in that it allows only limited modifications to character size and proportions.
Holo-me is also halfassed in terms of personalisation; hair and clothing etc.
Multicrew is halfassed in structure, implementation, reliability, features and rationalisation.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.4 (The Return):-
"Mysterious and exciting things" are halfassed in that they turned out to be USS's.
Thargoid attacks are halfassed in that they only ever occur during server updates and we never actually get to see them.
Damage to stations is halfassed in that it only ever occurs during server updates and we never actually get to see it happen.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

3.0 (Beyond) - speculative:-
Changes to material gathering are halfassed in that providing a "material broker" is a band-aid solution in lieu of more engaging gameplay.
Changes to engineering are halfassed in that they are a train-wreck of conflicting goals and obstacles.
C&P is halfassed in that it appears to lack cohesive intentions, logistics and consequences.
Tech Broker is halfassed in that it relies on the same tedious "fetch materials" mechanic in lieu of more engaging gameplay.


Now, I'm quite happy to admit that FDev has managed to provide a heap of decent stuff at the same time but let's not pretend that the garbage didn't happen too, eh?

Thanks for responding. Understanding can't be reached without it. :3

I don't disagree that Horizons was rather half-baked. 3.0 however, I feel has significantly more thought behind some of it. I can see the argument for mat gathering and the tech broker being meh, but I feel that the changes to engineers and C&P are perfectly fine for what we were promised with chapter one.

I don't know about you, but after being told we shouldn't expect complete overhauls of either system I was surprised to see that they changed as much as they did. I mean, I didn't expect a notoriety system nor insurance adjustments for murder. I just expected something as patchwork as the previous "adding the rebuy of the ship that committed the crime" or some such. As for engineers, I've always wanted the changes we're receiving so I suppose it makes sense that I'm satisfied with that. Sure, it's going from RNG to progression, but that's not bad just because it's a sort of reversal. It's what plenty of people have asked for.

I'm just thinking of how much time it has taken them to deliver 3.0 vs any of Horizons and I have to say, it's impressive. I can't say they aren't delivering more with less delay this time. It's not perfect, I admit, but it's more positive than negative for me.

In the end, perhaps it's because my expectations were at an all-time low before these further details emerged. That could be why I'm so hyped for Beyond.

 

[Marcus Tullius]

In my thread I made conclusion based on certain announcement from FD, my observation of reaction of the players to current game state, having in mind previous major updates of the game and how they were accepted by players. I used my rationality and common sense (things inherent to humans only) even if I was wrong. OP is emotional even if he is right. He says *I think* but in fact he doesn’t think but feels, which is different.

 

[Chris Simon]

In my thread I made conclusion based on certain announcement from FD, my observation of reaction of the players to current game state, having in mind previous major updates of the game and how they were accepted by players. I used my rationality and common sense (things inherent to humans only) even if I was wrong. OP is emotional even if he is right. He says *I think* but in fact he doesn’t think but feels, which is different.

I think you're taking this thread a bit too seriously.

 

[Susanna]

Boo.Hiss.

In my time being a Frontier white knight was a dangerous job, now the forums are filled with them.

You want to try being a SJW... I was just being curious but I didn't even know I was working for the Devil apparently lol... But there you go, that's playing the forums for you, a whole other beast!

 

[Susanna]

I find myself in between excited to see these awesome changes and cautious to know what will be screwed up. It seems like every update improves in some areas and rolls back on others. No need for details as this is my perception only, but I feel like that: Horizons introduced planetary landings, srvs but also beige planets. The ones in 2017 improved a couple of qol stuff but the message system is still screwed.

Don't get me wrong I am excited as never about the new planets, engineers, c&p, etc... but something tells me this can still fail. I measure “failure” not by threads, but by how much of my limited time I spend on ED and how much frustration is introduced. I hope to enjoy the new things without any problems.

LoL... is that like platform 9 and 3/4? Hogwarts here we come!

Seriously though, I totally agree, every improvement has often had its drawbacks. It's a lose lose game for fdev. Slow but solid development takes too long, fast and loose and we end up hating the bugs...

 

[Avago Earo]

but in fact he doesn’t think but feels, which is different.

I wonder how many people are thinking 'You had to do it didn't you?, you just had to do it' Yeah, I did.


[video=youtube_share;2d5o8d1kitM]https://youtu.be/2d5o8d1kitM[/video]

 

[Susanna]

I do like how Frontier has been humbly and "under" or vaguely promising, then with good timing, surprising and exceeding expectations.

I agree with you. Fdev seem to have surpassed themselves this time! I'm very impressed with the breadth of this patch. A lot of awesome content here!

Oh, I'm supposed to take it away with the other hand aren't I...

Pity it seems largely pew pew focused... There you go

 

[Susanna]

Well, if you must...

Starting with 2.2 (The Guardians):-
Implementation of NPC crew is halfassed in that it doesn't allow NPCs any functionality aboard your ship.
SLFs are halfassed in that they can't be deployed at the same time as an SRV.
NPC crew are halfassed in that they have no detailed 3D models.
Mission structure halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.3 (The Commanders):-
Holo-Me is halfassed in that it allows only limited modifications to character size and proportions.
Holo-me is also halfassed in terms of personalisation; hair and clothing etc.
Multicrew is halfassed in structure, implementation, reliability, features and rationalisation.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.4 (The Return):-
"Mysterious and exciting things" are halfassed in that they turned out to be USS's.
Thargoid attacks are halfassed in that they only ever occur during server updates and we never actually get to see them.
Damage to stations is halfassed in that it only ever occurs during server updates and we never actually get to see it happen.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

3.0 (Beyond) - speculative:-
Changes to material gathering are halfassed in that providing a "material broker" is a band-aid solution in lieu of more engaging gameplay.
Changes to engineering are halfassed in that they are a train-wreck of conflicting goals and obstacles.
C&P is halfassed in that it appears to lack cohesive intentions, logistics and consequences.
Tech Broker is halfassed in that it relies on the same tedious "fetch materials" mechanic in lieu of more engaging gameplay.


Now, I'm quite happy to admit that FDev has managed to provide a heap of decent stuff at the same time but let's not pretend that the garbage didn't happen too, eh?

Stealthie, I do believe you might be even more cynical than me! And that is saying something!
It's good to know we are on the same team [haha]

I am genuinely impressed with the breadth of chapter one. It will no doubt have unexpected flaws (unless reality has significantly shifted since my last sleep) but I have been greatly encouraged by what I have seen by the live streams. Fdev do appear to be making a good effort with this update, guided by the focused feedback, which I'm really hoping will avoid too many nasty surprises! Let's just hope that we don't get Skynet or too many 'galaxy map' bugs with this iteration...

 

[Susanna]

Don't put all your money into something you haven't tried yet. Better to stay cautious and be hyped for something that may become depressing. I'm still not keen on this 'Personal Narrative' if it's nothing but grinding and unlocking weapons. Was kinda hoping for a chain of missions but the forums could be just spreading lies.

LoL... The forums are lies, lies and more damned lies. No wait. That's politics, this is ED

 

[Chris Simon]

Don't put all your money into something you haven't tried yet. Better to stay cautious and be hyped for something that may become depressing. I'm still not keen on this 'Personal Narrative' if it's nothing but grinding and unlocking weapons. Was kinda hoping for a chain of missions but the forums could be just spreading lies.

I don't actually think "personal narrative" is a thing. I think Ed just used an unfortunate formulation to describe a function that will serve an individual rather than everybody. Something that will serve as a slight personalization of one's home station, for example. Plus I don't see the Tech broker as a grind but rather a convenient way of getting rid of excessive materials. Definitely feels better than discarding them all the time.
But forum does what forum always does - cherry pick the one thing that is worth whining about and keep parroting it over and over.

 

[Avago Earo]

I've been impressed by the last two live streams. It acme across to me that a lot of hard work and hard thinking had been undertaken by the developers.

The devs have obviously gone into this thoroughly. C&P, consequences for attacking an unwanted Commander; probably get me in Open. Checking import/export prices of other systems that your ship has got data from is something I've wanted since the beginning (and think it should have been in the game from the get go); might get me trading. Wing missions that [should] require a wing to complete unless you're an uber Commander; might get me to wing up. Help The Beige-ed, better looking planets that you can identify the properties of by their colours; what's not to like?

Chieftain; another ship. Okay.

I was literally gobsmacked, when I watched the live streams. The amount of work that has gone into these updates is obvious. It will probably take a while to get it all to work and balance out, but the passion the devs have (I admit, something I was doubting, and I'm glad to be wrong) is now very apparent.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, if you must...

Starting with 2.2 (The Guardians):-
Implementation of NPC crew is halfassed in that it doesn't allow NPCs any functionality aboard your ship.
SLFs are halfassed in that they can't be deployed at the same time as an SRV.
NPC crew are halfassed in that they have no detailed 3D models.
Mission structure halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.3 (The Commanders):-
Holo-Me is halfassed in that it allows only limited modifications to character size and proportions.
Holo-me is also halfassed in terms of personalisation; hair and clothing etc.
Multicrew is halfassed in structure, implementation, reliability, features and rationalisation.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

2.4 (The Return):-
"Mysterious and exciting things" are halfassed in that they turned out to be USS's.
Thargoid attacks are halfassed in that they only ever occur during server updates and we never actually get to see them.
Damage to stations is halfassed in that it only ever occurs during server updates and we never actually get to see it happen.
Mission structure continues to be halfassed as a result of ongoing bugs.

3.0 (Beyond) - speculative:-
Changes to material gathering are halfassed in that providing a "material broker" is a band-aid solution in lieu of more engaging gameplay.
Changes to engineering are halfassed in that they are a train-wreck of conflicting goals and obstacles.
C&P is halfassed in that it appears to lack cohesive intentions, logistics and consequences.
Tech Broker is halfassed in that it relies on the same tedious "fetch materials" mechanic in lieu of more engaging gameplay.


Now, I'm quite happy to admit that FDev has managed to provide a heap of decent stuff at the same time but let's not pretend that the garbage didn't happen too, eh?

Changes to material gathering? What are they? I don't see anything halfassed about that as I don't think it has changed. The changes for that I am sure will come in the Q4 update as stated.

We don't know what engineers will be like after the feedback. So I think I will wait until Tuesday to judge on that one.

Tech broker we still know very little about yet, so again saying it's halfassed before trying it is a bit halfassed.

 

[babelfisch]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/398183-2-5-stop-the-hype-train

Just saying.

 

[Janichsan]

Two or three years ago, people weren't so jaded and heavy on the complaints either. Given enough time, every game gets boring and seemingly shallow. Somehow.

This has nothing to do with people becoming jaded over the last three years: players have been clamouring for things like better trade tools and a better crime and punishment system since day 1, and for wing missions since the introduction of wings in ED 1.2.

Well, if you must...

Starting with 2.2 (The Guardians):-
Implementation of NPC crew is halfassed…
*snip*

I would say the problem of the halfassedness goes even further back:

1.1 Community Goals was halfassed as CGs are a fairly primitive way to get large numbers of player collaborate on something. The system hasn't seen any real improvments since its introduction in 2015.

1.2 Wings was halfassed since it missed to introduce any content worthwhile to actually tackle in wings. What's worse, the way bounties were split actually punished you for winging up. Only now, in the upcoming patch, FD finally adds content specific tailored for wings – three years later.

1.3 Powerplay was halfassed since it's a tacked-on, boardgame-like, convoluted system that is completely disconnected from the rest of the game. Improvements are "being looked into" for more than two years now, without ever materialising.

1.4 CQC was halfassed because – while a fun little distraction – it was almost immediately neglected after its introduction. It hasn't seen any new content since December 2015.

2.0 was at least partially halfassed, since it brought the terrible planetside POI system that is even more annoying than hunting for USSs in space, and which hasn't been substantially changed since its introduction.

2.1 The Engineers was halfassed and still will be after the Beyond patches, since it's still nothing but a thinly disguised slot-machine.

The upcoming patches finally begin to flesh out many of the halfassed bits and pieces of game that in part have been around since the release in 2014. But that can only be beginning: I'm glad that FD wants to improve exploration in the Q4 2018 update, but they still have a lot to look into, such as bounty hunting, piracy, planetside activities, Powerplay, and multicrew.

 

[Slopey]

Don't get cocky.

it's gonna get rocky,
We gonna move down to the next ya jockey, now duck!

 

[Stealthie]

Changes to material gathering? What are they? I don't see anything halfassed about that as I don't think it has changed. The changes for that I am sure will come in the Q4 update as stated.

We don't know what engineers will be like after the feedback. So I think I will wait until Tuesday to judge on that one.

Tech broker we still know very little about yet, so again saying it's halfassed before trying it is a bit halfassed.

When somebody asks me what basis I have for expecting forthcoming things to be halfassed, it's a bit obtuse to respond by saying that I have no basis for saying that until I see it.

Sure, the upcoming updates might be terrific but, based on past experiences and discussion of forthcoming ones, I don't have high hopes of the things I've mentioned.
There might, of course, also be a whole heap of other stuff which is superb.
FDev seem to have a habit of doing that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

When somebody asks me what basis I have for expecting forthcoming things to be halfassed, it's a bit obtuse to respond by saying that I have no basis for saying that until I see it.

Sure, the upcoming updates might be terrific but, based on past experiences and discussion of forthcoming ones, I don't have high hopes of the things I've mentioned.
There might, of course, also be a whole heap of other stuff which is superb.
FDev seem to have a habit of doing that.

There will always be stuff which isn't to our liking and stuff that is. The trading update is Superb, and other updates where too. I don't think holo-me was halfassed for instance just because you didn't have control over your weight. I think you are being over picky to be honest.

 

[Funny]

I’m kinda confident that everything but the engineers changes will be awesome.
That said, I’m not holding out hope for the changes to engineers alleviating our problems. I’ll be very, very pleasently surprised if they listened to our feedback and actually did stuff like remove wake scan materials (is there anyone here who likes hanging outside of stations doing nothing? Not me). But, from the last proposals we heard, that won’t be the case.

P.S.: The one change already was messed up somewhat: the commodity reward for missions option. They really should just remove those and replace them with mats lol.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I’m kinda confident that everything but the engineers changes will be awesome.
That said, I’m not holding out hope for the changes to engineers alleviating our problems. I’ll be very, very pleasently surprised if they listened to our feedback and actually did stuff like remove wake scan materials (is there anyone here who likes hanging outside of stations doing nothing? Not me). But, from the last proposals we heard, that won’t be the case.

P.S.: The one change already was messed up somewhat: the commodity reward for missions option. They really should just remove those and replace them with mats lol.

I found it easy to do wake scanning. I had a wake scanner and whenever I left a station to somewhere I would scan a couple of Wakes and go on my way. Easy and simple to get the required mats.

If you choose to hang around a station doing nothing else for hours, that's on you.

 

[Surprised Brony]

This has nothing to do with people becoming jaded over the last three years: players have been clamouring for things like better trade tools and a better crime and punishment system since day 1, and wing missions since the introduction of wings in ED 1.2.

Sure, suggestions were made, but you can't honestly tell me it has been this way since day one. Salt and whine weren't always E: D community commodities. Let's be honest, it either takes salt and whine or a harmonious community for devs to know people generally think one thing or another. Neither existed on day one. Either way, once Horizons was being purchased they had to dedicate to it. Beyond was better suited to coming afterwards, as is happening now.

I won't say initial deliveries on the base and Horizons weren't somewhat bare. They absolutely were. But Beyond seems to have a lot of effort behind it, comparatively speaking.

Edited to remove failed quote function.