The Exploits Have Damaged Elite

[John Xenir]

i like the exploits.. as soon as i hear about one im off in my 1.4billion combat fitted fully engineered cutter to blow cheating cmdrs outa the sky ^_^ i wrecked 40-50 cmdrs days with the last skimmer exploit .. you want big and fancy - put the time and effort in like most of us do.

Oh you so dangerous in your ding dong 1.4 billion combat fitted fully engineered cutter. Hunting what, Eagles?
Tells everything about your skill, if anything, mate. G'day.

 

[V'larr]

I've never done a gold rush or participated in an exploit. I know this makes me the biggest idiot in Elite: Dangerous, but until the most recent one, I haven't really cared.

I usually have fun, and if making some credits without having to risk anything makes the game fun for others, why should I care?

Seriously -- why should I care?

Well, I'm actually embarrassed to say I do, for once. FDev couldn't care less that players who have never bent the rules are hopelessly outclassed by players that spend a few hours cheating. It has always been like this, but it's too unbalanced, now. I've always been behind, but it's so laughably skewed now, playing missions feels like putting quarters in the punching machine. The worst is that it's all me -- my fun game is no longer fun because I actually wish I had cheated so I could go do the stuff I want in the ship I want without having to spend hours building up the credits to do it, which used to be fun when it was the cost of doing business, but I'm like the only player in Elite that has to do it, so it suddenly feels like... bull.

For what it's worth, participate regularly in CGs and you'll find yourself accumulating plenty of credits.

 

[RJMcReady]

As a pvp only player using a "gold rush" allows me to play the game the way I want.

I just pvp at san tu mainly with occasional cg bouts. probably go through 20-30 rebuys a week as I am a bang average pvp player. without the ability to top up my balance I would just have to give up as I dont have another 40 hours in the week to grind credits.

My actions have no other impact on other players so why should anyone care about what I do?

 

[bitstorm]

As a pvp only player using a "gold rush" allows me to play the game the way I want.

I just pvp at san tu mainly with occasional cg bouts. probably go through 20-30 rebuys a week as I am a bang average pvp player. without the ability to top up my balance I would just have to give up as I dont have another 40 hours in the week to grind credits.

My actions have no other impact on other players so why should anyone care about what I do?

I would say there are different classes of "PvP" player, but fundamentally huge amounts of credits in quick time beyond what's expected undermines any crime and punishment system.

So that's one reason why I care.

With the 20-30 losses a week, why not just agree not to actually kill each other, and just go to 10%, I mean it seems an easy solution doesn't it? And would solve all PvP complaints such as yours, you'd never "need" to grind again.

 

[RJMcReady]

I would say there are different classes of "PvP" player, but fundamentally huge amounts of credits in quick time beyond what's expected undermines any crime and punishment system.

So that's one reason why I care.

With the 20-30 losses a week, why not just agree not to actually kill each other, and just go to 10%, I mean it seems an easy solution doesn't it? And would solve all PvP complaints such as yours, you'd never "need" to grind again.

crime and punishment? i only fight arranged bouts agains other cmdrs with crimes off. some times gg is called at 10% sometimes not.

 

[FatFreddysCoat]

Interesting though that this latest gold rush gave ED the highest player figures in two years so I read.

How do you define cheating though? You are in a closed environment, with every action dictated by code. If the code lets you do something, and it’s getting you more money etc than usual, it’s players exploiting the things the code allows them to do, that FD (intention otherwise) allowed them to do. If they’ve found it then fair play to them.

I think FDev should engineer in these little Gold rushes every now and then to refresh the gene pool and make it more fun for a week or weekend.

 

[bitstorm]

crime and punishment? i only fight arranged bouts agains other cmdrs with crimes off. some times gg is called at 10% sometimes not.

C+P => https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/407608-Crime-and-Punishment-in-Beyond-Chapter-One it is complex.

To simplify, credit penalties are applied to crime.

Folk have been asking for a C+P system for a long long time.

Many PvPers want "easy money", easy money underminets the C+P system.

It's a back and forth isn't it, between folk wanting to shoot at players with no repercussions, and other folk wanting repercussions for shooting at players.

The often repeated "why should anyone care" is a bit short-sighted IMHO.

 

[bitstorm]

Interesting though that this latest gold rush gave ED the highest player figures in two years so I read.

Of course, the release of 3.0 had nothing to do with increased player numbers at all.

What with the skimmer bug being a bug in 3.0 which was very quickly discovered within a day or two(?).

The all time high definitely wasn't because players wanted to play with 3.0 and everything that's in it, it was because Frontier are bad and we all should be able to build A-rated Anacondas with a few hours playtime! =p

How do you define cheating though? You are in a closed environment, with every action dictated by code. If the code lets you do something, and it’s getting you more money etc than usual, it’s players exploiting the things the code allows them to do, that FD (intention otherwise) allowed them to do. If they’ve found it then fair play to them.

I don't know that that matters - does it matter?

Some folk define cheating as abusing "elements" beyond what the game designers intended.

Some folk define it as hacking only.

With a complex system, there will be a grey area where unintended actions that allow progress beyond what's intended or to avoid intended repercussions are possible, whether actions in that area can be defined as "cheating" is open to debate I think. I certainly think there are arguments both ways.

But I would say that arguing over that point doesn't really further the discussion, it is just arguing over semantics and not very helpful.

 

[V'larr]

Interesting though that this latest gold rush gave ED the highest player figures in two years so I read.

How do you define cheating though? You are in a closed environment, with every action dictated by code. If the code lets you do something, and it’s getting you more money etc than usual, it’s players exploiting the things the code allows them to do, that FD (intention otherwise) allowed them to do. If they’ve found it then fair play to them.

I think FDev should engineer in these little Gold rushes every now and then to refresh the gene pool and make it more fun for a week or weekend.

This went way, way, way above and beyond a "little gold rush". Conceptually it's interesting but in actual implementation it causes nothing but mayhem and detriment.

 

[RJMcReady]

C+P => https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/407608-Crime-and-Punishment-in-Beyond-Chapter-One it is complex.

To simplify, credit penalties are applied to crime.

Folk have been asking for a C+P system for a long long time.

Many PvPers want "easy money", easy money underminets the C+P system.

It's a back and forth isn't it, between folk wanting to shoot at players with no repercussions, and other folk wanting repercussions for shooting players.

I understand the c and p system and it does not affect my gameplay one iota. I will continue to fight other cmdrs in anarchy systems in arranged bouts with crimes off and not have any bounties or fines. the only reason I want easy money is to allow me to continue doing this, if there was a system with specific rebuy and bounty changes to allow this I would use that. But there isnt so I will hit the next gold rush when it pops up and carry on without affecting anyone elses gameplay.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Interesting though that this latest gold rush gave ED the highest player figures in two years so I read.

How do you define cheating though? You are in a closed environment, with every action dictated by code. If the code lets you do something, and it’s getting you more money etc than usual, it’s players exploiting the things the code allows them to do, that FD (intention otherwise) allowed them to do. If they’ve found it then fair play to them.

I think FDev should engineer in these little Gold rushes every now and then to refresh the gene pool and make it more fun for a week or weekend.

You look at yourself in the mirror.

"It's in the code." is an amoral statement along the lines of "I was obeying orders." because you are abdicating any responsibility for your own actions.

But hey, ED is only a game - having a sense of right and wrong in a made up universe just doesn't matter.

 

[bitstorm]

I understand the c and p system and it does not affect my gameplay one iota. I will continue to fight other cmdrs in anarchy systems in arranged bouts with crimes off and not have any bounties or fines. the only reason I want easy money is to allow me to continue doing this, if there was a system with specific rebuy and bounty changes to allow this I would use that. But there isnt so I will hit the next gold rush when it pops up and carry on without affecting anyone elses gameplay.

Sure go for it!

Speaking personally I think gold rushes are great, skimmer was just silly money tho, 2-300 mill per hour. Nope.

Don't blame people for participating but all I was saying was that having such easy money in game does actually affect other players.

But I also don't want a homogeneous galaxy where everything is equal and (for example) there is no such thing a gold rush, where folk can make good bank (within reason) for a short period, get it while it lasts etc...

 

[ilo]

For what it's worth, participate regularly in CGs and you'll find yourself accumulating plenty of credits.

but, but that requires to play the game!! profanity! I just want the credits!!

 

[RJMcReady]

its an interesting conundrum.

if for example I find a way that without board hoping i can use the existing mission system to get credits quickly, what are the criteria by which i decide whether something is an exploit?

credits per hour?

ease of use?

gut feel?

 

[Drelthar]

It's almost as though frontier shuold log where vredits come from and once an exploit is found, remove those credits right?

Crazy idea that aint it.

 

[bitstorm]

its an interesting conundrum.

if for example I find a way that without board hoping i can use the existing mission system to get credits quickly, what are the criteria by which i decide whether something is an exploit?

credits per hour?

ease of use?

gut feel?

As I said above though, the definition of "exploit" varies from person to person.

Also "exploit" is such a loaded term, it's not such a useful term if you want an actual discussion around this topic.

But assuming by "exploit" you mean something that enables progression beyond what was intended, ie what Frontier's definition of "exploit" is likely to be....

Judging that is going to be based on experience with the game, having a grasp of what the intended game play is and what realistic expectations are, and well a bit of common sense.

 

[RJMcReady]

It's almost as though frontier shuold log where vredits come from and once an exploit is found, remove those credits right?

Crazy idea that aint it.

sure but then there needs to be explicit rules about what constitutes an exploit or what an acceptable credits per hour rate is. the mission system is so borked that there have been plenty of examples where without board flipping there are ways to make huge credits without doing anything against the "rules".

 

[bitstorm]

sure but then there needs to be explicit rules about what constitutes an exploit or what an acceptable credits per hour rate is. the mission system is so borked that there have been plenty of examples where without board flipping there are ways to make huge credits without doing anything against the "rules".

Why don't you try and define it?

 

[RJMcReady]

I'm not the developer so its not really within my remit.

but I have my personal red face test that I use. anything that involves board flipping or relogging I don't use as Fdev have said that this is an exploit.

until fdev define a credits per hour rate that is unacceptable I will ignore that.

I had my own little system for credits that ended with the 3.0 update i will wait for another one to pop up that works with my "rules".

 

[babelfisch]

Sure go for it!

Speaking personally I think gold rushes are great, skimmer was just silly money tho, 2-300 mill per hour. Nope.

Don't blame people for participating but all I was saying was that having such easy money in game does actually affect other players.

But I also don't want a homogeneous galaxy where everything is equal and (for example) there is no such thing a gold rush, where folk can make good bank (within reason) for a short period, get it while it lasts etc...

Gold rushes aren't necessarily a bad thing. They should be caused by specific and temporary BGS situations rather than an oversight by the Devs though.