The Formidine Rift - Part 2

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simulacrae

simulacrae
Kleitias said:
As myself and others have tried to argue above, the meaning of the name, its etymology - which we have been told to look at by Drew -, has got nothing to do with the historical figure called Kahina (the 'berber queen').
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My problem with that kind of argument is that it ignores all the obvious parallels .... so yes a straight definition of the term etymology might rule out that the Berber Queen / High Priestess Kahina who after being besieged by here enemies - had survived and won - defeats an invading army against the odds - fortells her death and is later killed by a guy named Hassan - who in Reclamation is responsible for waking her improperly and giving her the name Salome ( a dancer with a penchant for killing prophets). Tijani is a north African Sufi order by the way... (The Tijani Path) essentially a path to enlightenment. And while it may not provide a blueprint for future happenings - it does give insight into the characters .... and why I liked Kahina much more than I like Salome ;)
 

Arjin

Arjin
simulacrae said:
My problem with that kind of argument is that it ignores all the obvious parallels .... so yes a straight definition of the term etymology might rule out that the Berber Queen / High Priestess Kahina who after being besieged by here enemies - had survived and won - defeats an invading army against the odds - fortells her death and is later killed by a guy named Hassan - who in Reclamation is responsible for waking her improperly and giving her the name Salome ( a dancer with a penchant for killing prophets). Tijani is a north African Sufi order by the way... (The Tijani Path) essentially a path to enlightenment. And while it may not provide a blueprint for future happenings - it does give insight into the characters .... and why I liked Kahina much more than I like Salome ;)
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But it was merely a title applied to the Berber Queen Dihya, it does have parallels, but the meaning remains, diviner, fortune teller...
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
simulacrae said:
Ahh the age old question... What's in a name?
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What ever the meaning is, it must have meant something to her parents.

Did they have fortune telling skils in the family or was the plan that she should become a 'warrior queen'?

She probably got the name for a reason.
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Belthize said:
I've seen the 'luminous' liquor mentioned several times by people but never seen an actual source. The galnet article simply refers to "Gerasian Liquor' which isn't actually in game. The Geaisian rare is 'beer'. The beer has a luminous color because the a protein from the algae used to brew the beer is bio-luminescent.. I've never seen a reference that actually explicitly says the liquor was 'luminous', it's just inferred. I have seen folks state that the galnet article said she was given an 'luminous liquor' at the Concert but I think they've just conflated two different galnet articles.

The above isn't intended to refute the relevance of 'light', I'm genuinely curious about whether the liquor itself was luminous and if I'm missing an actual reference some where.
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It is inferred.

I've always thought it meant the Gerasian Gueuze Beer and that the word liqour was just used to make it 'GL' as in Good Luck. I never got the point of this though.

Perhaps it's all colours.

GL, and .. RO, C > Green, Lilac (Violet), Red, Orange, Cyan(Blue). Just yellow missing from a full Prism.:D
 

Jaiotu

Jaiotu
Han_Zen said:
What ever the meaning is, it must have meant something to her parents.
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In the real universe: Yes.

In the Elite universe: Maybe no?

I was just watching a video yesterday in which Neil deGrasse Tyson was hosting a panel discussion on the possibility that we are living inside a complex computer simulation. One of the arguments given against this is the fact that we don't appear to see any 'bugs' in the simulation ... that is to say that the observable universe appears to work too perfectly to be a simulation.

Folk living inside the Elite: Dangerous universe must be all too aware that they are inside a simulation :) and as such must be used to all kinds of things that appear to be contrived.

Seriously though: I tend to agree with you that the idea that Kahina's name (or even Hassan-given name of Salome) just shouldn't have a bearing on the Rift Mystery. It seems too contrived. My parents named me "Patrick". It would be very odd if I went to an island country and were somehow responsible for ridding said island of its entire snake population (thus paralleling the legend of St. Patrick). On the other hand ... if I deliberately set out to accomplish that task because my parents named me "Patrick" then that would be a case of me playing on the myth purposely. Perhaps Kahina/Salome is building a legend around herself?
 
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xdemetrios

xdemetrios
I'm for the idea that there is a design, there's no such thing as random. That being said there's a pattern, we just don't know what it is yet. I was searching around in the galaxy map in the Formidine Rift and found a random grouping of stars closely knit together out in an area that is pretty stringent of stars.
Check it out ISHEAU LF-Q B25-0
 
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Allitnil

Allitnil
You'll find little pockets like that elsewhere in the galaxy where the stars really thin out a bit below the galactic plane but you're not right at the edge. Looks to be a feature of how the galaxy is simulated. It's not quite the same, but see for instance the patch around Yaimuae DK-I a105-1 at the eastern edge of the galaxy.

Doesn't mean that something might not have been placed there however.
 

Kleitias

K
simulacrae said:
My problem with that kind of argument is that it ignores all the obvious parallels .... so yes a straight definition of the term etymology might rule out that the Berber Queen / High Priestess Kahina who after being besieged by here enemies - had survived and won - defeats an invading army against the odds - fortells her death and is later killed by a guy named Hassan - who in Reclamation is responsible for waking her improperly and giving her the name Salome ( a dancer with a penchant for killing prophets). Tijani is a north African Sufi order by the way... (The Tijani Path) essentially a path to enlightenment. And while it may not provide a blueprint for future happenings - it does give insight into the characters .... and why I liked Kahina much more than I like Salome ;)
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With respect, but you are again conflating meaning and history/legend. Fortunately, the etymology of the name Kahina suffices to make a connection to divination ("diviner, sooth-sayer, fortune-teller"). We do not need the historical/legendary figure Kahina for this.

Edit: I don't rule out the possibility that Drew used 'etymology' very liberally, i.e. that he actually meant etymology and history. In that case, all sorts of connections are possible. I agree that it looks like it is not a coincidence that there are two Hassans, for instance.

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Han_Zen said:
What ever the meaning is, it must have meant something to her parents.

Did they have fortune telling skils in the family or was the plan that she should become a 'warrior queen'?

She probably got the name for a reason.
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True.
 
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Legacy_LuckyLuke

Banned
Legacy_LuckyLuke
My thing about the whole etymology vs. history argument is that 'Kahina' was a deliberate nickname, as in a name created for, the North African Berber queen 'Dihya'. The Arabic nickname she was given was 'al-Kahina' - meaning 'fortune teller' etc.

So... In Drew (or if we want to keep this literal, in-game, her parents) giving her the name 'Kahina', it seems they are trying to tell us something about her. Maybe this is just an example of the twisty misdirection Drew spoke of. So... Let's assume for a minute that all the coincidences and parrallels between the naming of Prisms planets, the naming of Kahina, Salomé and other characters (Hassan, Seven Veils, Innana, the underworld, Persephone, Cassiopeia, Cephus and so on...) are simply there as an elaborate piece of character writing by Drew. The connections are utterly plain, but let's consider that this was simply Drew's creative process, and it tickled him to call characters and places certain things deliberately to make false connections.

So if we assume all that for a moment - what are we left with?

I would say the words and actions of characters in this story as documented in Reclamation and posts on Galnet. (Talking of which, I found a great source for GalNet posts in an easy readable/searchable format: http://ed.frank-heinrich.net/index.php?title=Galnet_Archive )

One thing that has been ringing out to me recently is the phrase "shadowy forces are at work". It keeps coming up in the dialogue of various characters. (Most recently Salomé herself at Beagle Point and then again at the Children of Raxxla wing send off last week.)

Sounds somewhat underworldish to me. So who are these shadowy forces?

I wonder if galactic powers have already been infiltrated by alien forces of some description. Has anyone seen that sci-fi b-movie from the 80's "They Live", where special glasses were needed to see the aliens among us?

Ok, tinfoil mode turned off again for a minute. Did you know the word 'Shadow' appears over 100 times in all the GalNet posts?

It refers to Shadow president (Felicia Winters or Hudson), the Shadow Navy or Emperor's Dawn 'Shadow' cells...
 
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Dark_Helmet

Dark_Helmet
So, needing to shed the Seven Veils to reach enlightenment, 'Tijani way' translating to the path of enlightenment, Salomé finding her visit to Sol "most enlightening"...possibly shedding the first veil in that visit...The Veils being represented by colours, many of which seem to be highly relevant to recent pieces of information (the planets in Prism, planet Emerald in Cemiess that Alicia visited...)

This has to be more than just coincidence, surely?
 
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Jaiotu

Jaiotu
LuckyLuke said:
... Ok, tinfoil mode turned off again for a minute. Did you know the word 'Shadow' appears over 100 times in all the GalNet posts?

It refers to Shadow president (Felicia Winters or Hudson), the Shadow Navy or Emperor's Dawn 'Shadow' cells...
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Well, I think we can rule out the "Shadow Navy" as being part of the greater conspiracy. They are/were a player group and those articles are a direct response to their activities in and around the Liaedin system where they were attempting to wrestle control away from the Empire.
 

simulacrae

simulacrae
Kleitias said:
With respect, but you are again conflating meaning and history/legend. Fortunately, the etymology of the name Kahina suffices to make a connection to divination ("diviner, sooth-sayer, fortune-teller"). We do not need the historical/legendary figure Kahina for this.

Edit: I don't rule out the possibility that Drew used 'etymology' very liberally, i.e. that he actually meant etymology and history. In that case, all sorts of connections are possible. I agree that it looks like it is not a coincidence that there are two Hassans, for instance.
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First off - I love that we are arguing about the meaning of the word etymology :)

I get that if you are using a straight dictionary definition it might just mean word origins to you. I think of it as more of a "study of" and includes history and historical usage. Like in the OED which not only includes definitions but examples of historical usage and how words have changed over time (sadly no def for kahina in OED). I guess what I'm saying is that thanks inpart to Ibn Khaldun who I believe wrote up the "history" of " the Kahina", she has become part of the history of that word. When I say "the Cowbell" people don't automatically assume I'm talking about some guy on the forum named Kicks... But when i say "the Kahina " ... Even if you are unfamiliar with it ... A quick search will show you who I'm talking about.
 
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