The Mining nerf was likely the worst implementation of a Balancing in Years...

[Brrokk]

Yeah Sure. They never claimed to do Economy Balancing. They never said they would do anything over the last 5 Years.
I wonder what they Coined all these Economy Changes as....

Then again. Yeah. If you want to Split Hairs its Technically True that they never Announced several Different Economy Balances at once.
Albeit Technically they didnt do that this time either. They only Announced Mining Changes and said they might look at a different thing somewhere in the future.....



lol
Ok now this is just Blatantly Dishonest.

Yes. Some other Commodities got their Prices Increased.
Thing is. The Price Nerf of the Relevant stuff was 400-600k
The Price Buff for other Stuff was 20-30k

A Full 4 Hour Mining Run went from 600 Million Dropoff to about 150 Million Dropoff
A 1-2 Hour Strip Mining Run in Exchange went ONLY from about 150 Million Dropoff to about 80 Million Dropoff.

So No lol
Mining is not better than Ever.
I dont even know how one could even get the Idea that Mining was Improved lol....




Not really. Because dont get me Wrong.
But unless you have a Carrier already. There really isnt any Reliable Method of doing more Money than Mining.
You can do Passenger Runs on Colonia. But you have to Include the Fact that you need to Travel to Colonia for that.
You can do Trade Runs with about 60-80k Profit per Ton. But only in some Limited Windows where some Stations Sell you Gold/Palladium etc for Super low Prices which tends to run out of Supply pretty Fast.

In terms of Moneymaking. Guess what. Mining is still where its at.

That wasn't true last night. Delivery missions are now The Thing. I'm looking forward to logging in tonight to see if they've been dialed down again yet.

This might inconvenience a class of players who learned to mine from YouTube, don't know how to do anything else and never got allied in useful extraction systems. It's to be hoped that's a small minority though.

 

[Sunleader]

That wasn't true last night. Delivery missions are now The Thing. I'm looking forward to logging in tonight to see if they've been dialed down again yet.

This might inconvenience a class of players who learned to mine from YouTube, don't know how to do anything else and never got allied in useful extraction systems. It's to be hoped that's a small minority though.

I checked Missions for Mining in my System where I am. And none of these is worth even close to just Mining Painite despite the Nerf.
And Yes. I am Allied with majority of the Factions.
I am pretty sure there will be some Gems now and then. But I doubt this is going to be a Reliable thing.


If not for the Pulse Wave Scanner Bug. I guess one could Mine for Grend and Musgra as well as other of the High Paying Cores.
As these Still Pay very Good. And thus can be used for High Yield Credit Farming.


Still. I do not have Conclusive Data to Dismiss this.
So if you find there to be alot of Missions Available feel Free to give me a Headsup and I will check on it.

 

[Exeider]

That is highly exaggerated. 300m might be possible under perfect conditions. 150 was more probable in something like a Cutter.

You didn't do the LTD lasermining runs in Borann, in a wing, did you? 600 mil / sell for all wingmembers (trade dividends), with mining-times ranging around 1 hour + traveltime. This was before the release of Fleet Carriers (which introduced Tritium and re-arrange all hotspots).

You two are making apples to oranges comparisons here, Individual vs Wing, Pre and Post Egg-sploit, Pre- and Post- Hotspot "fix", the fact that wing mining essentially multiplies the fragments of a single rock.

Being alone with just yourself after the hotspot and eggsploit fix, I was doing about 100mil/hr in a python, and while being in a cutter yields better results, I tried using a T9 and the results weren't THAT much better. So I can totally believe the average of 150mil/hr in a cutter, 200 maybe but 300, no that's stretching credibility, that or someone is doing their math wrong and not factoring in travel times which cuts into the average.

When you do mining runs, you need to start and stop the clock from when you shoot your FIRST rock, to after you get back from dropping off and are shooting a rock again. The time it takes to travel to the sell system or FC, dropping off, 3Rep and Limpets and back to the mining spot. Time spent NOT mining during a run counts on the clock and this is where I think people are screwing up their calculations and because Fdev doesn't play their own game (we know they don't given their livestreams) they go by what the community is saying, and the shiny thumbnails on youtube videos making extraordinary claims.

the LTD gold rush was insane, I'll be the first to admit it, it allowed me to go from the bottom third of the game to I think top 10% (Over 1 billion but below 10 billion in total assets/credits) The chief complaints was not that it was nerfed but the manner in which Fdev screwed it up by messing with the distribution numbers and hotspots. But that was then and this is now, and I feel that you're looking at the insane gold rush times and because they went on as long as they did, you're making it out to that being the norm which it's not. Mining was paying good but not insane until this week, now it's been effectively cut in half or even by 2/3rds, that's WAY too much, Fdev overcompensated.

Yes, wing mining multiplies all these numbers, but shouldn't it? I mean shouldn't it multiply the earnings rate commensurate to the number of CMDRs participating, and thus divide evenly? I mean I know it's also a good way to power level an account, have them sit there with nothing but collectors and a refinery and a huge cargohold while the big dogs laser every rock they come across. That's a small use case but it's doable.

My point is, we shouldn't be criticizing an individuals rate and then cite group rates and saying "well that's too much, nerf the whole thing." and secondly, I think everyone needs to understand that travel time counts. If you mine for an hour and then stop, you cannot look up the numbers on EDDB.io and say "I make X amount of money this hour", no you didn't you made ZERO credits this hour. ZERO. All you have is rocks in your cargohold. Until you go sell that, it's not anything just yet. But time spend NOT mining, traveling from and to, selling, and reloading for the next run ALL factor and if you add that time you will notice the average credits per hour becomes more reasonable.

The reason why I think this is hard for people to understand is, combat pays you instantly, when you kill a bunch of NPCs, you can see right in your transactions list how much money you are being paid (and I agree it's a joke), trade runs begin when you buy and end the moment you sell and you can see instantly how much money you made.

I may be wrong but I think mining and exploration are the only activities where the payout is delayed and the travel times factor into the earnings per hour. And as such, these claims of 300+ per hour are misrepresented.

 

[Exeider]

I've a lingering fear about that too, but since we've never really had an opportunity to see combat buffed for... N+1 years, I'm hopeful that they might actually take it to a level where it can compete with mining.

Might be setting myself up for disappointment here, but hey. I'll give it a go.

I think it's more of a case of "I'll believe it when I see it." in which case, yeah I'm kind of there with him. Fdev has insinuated for years they are going to "balance the game", yet all I ever see when do is make changes to mining.

 

[Exeider]

You're (and a lot of people make this mistake) wrong here. Not everyone mines.

Then those people should probably refrain from making commentary about "how broken mining is" or "Mining is a lazy activity requiring no skills" since they have no clue what they are talking about, shouldn't they?

 

[Screemonster]

And what is often overlooked, at least I think, is that with more than just one thing to mine for, you're going to fill up faster and thus lessen your time flying around in a ring vs. flying to a station to sell your haul which, mathematically speaking, actually improves your Cr/hr rate.

People are constantly overlooking downtime in these things. Having a good spread of materials, and a better reliable minimum price also means you're less vulnerable to demand crashing out for any particular one of them.
Sure, you can hyperspecialise in painite but if the painite sell station has no demand then you're gubbed, plus it'll take longer to fill a hold with pure painite than it would to fill it with some of everything.

 

[Vandaahl]

Then those people should probably refrain from making commentary about "how broken mining is" or "Mining is a lazy activity requiring no skills" since they have no clue what they are talking about, shouldn't they?

No, they should

 

[Cairton]

Mostly Wing massacre missions - but thanks for asking
(and amalgamating the credits from 3 accounts - I really do dislike mining)

Thanks for answering . I recently treated myself to a Rift S and reset my commander so my credits are sorely lacking. I don't enjoy mining either. I guess I need to find a wing then

 

[Brrokk]

I checked Missions for Mining in my System where I am. And none of these is worth even close to just Mining Painite despite the Nerf.
And Yes. I am Allied with majority of the Factions.
I am pretty sure there will be some Gems now and then. But I doubt this is going to be a Reliable thing.


If not for the Pulse Wave Scanner Bug. I guess one could Mine for Grend and Musgra as well as other of the High Paying Cores.
As these Still Pay very Good. And thus can be used for High Yield Credit Farming.


Still. I do not have Conclusive Data to Dismiss this.
So if you find there to be alot of Missions Available feel Free to give me a Headsup and I will check on it.

Not mining missions. Look for delivery missions from an Extraction system.

 

[Exeider]

No, they should

Which explains the sad state of this game.

The irony here is that the people you're debating are the same people who would 100% agree with you on combat and exploration buffs. It's almost like Fdev wanted to start a conflict, in which case they got what they wanted. I'll never understand why the Pew-Pew Brigade continuously keeps having problems with the people who shoot rocks for a living when it's Fdev not buffing their pay that's the source of their woes.

I'm of the opinion that AX players for example, should not only get a huge buff in their bounties for the Thargoids, but that the Thargoid hearts be treated like a rare good, that should net the selling player an additional 10s of millions for it, and because such a transaction would be considered a trade, their wing makes would get a piece of that too.

I'm am totally for combat players to get all sorts of imaginative multipliers to their kills so they earn a decent wage. and yes, I am even open to looking at mining, but ONLY after the other professions have been buffed and we can look at mining respective to the other now buffed professions and see if it in fact needs a nerf at that point. But starting WITH mining when the other professions have been patiently waiting just smacks again as the velvet glove slap in the face we've come to expect from Fdev and I for one am tired of it.

 

[Sunleader]

Not mining missions. Look for delivery missions from an Extraction system.
View attachment 197301

I see.
I have an Extraction System close to my Home System where I am Allied with pretty much everyone.
I will check there later to see how common such Missions are. And if its worth doing it.

 

[Kelster87]

Why was none of the other Activities properly Balanced ?
Why was nothing done for Exploration, Bounty Hunting and Trade ?

Because, as you keep ignoring, this is only Step 1.. There is more to come. Just because you don't believe a word FDev says doesn't mean we all feel that way. But then, you seem to think I'm going to always defend them. What a crock - a poorly performing game leads to ill sentiment, which leads to lower profits. Lower profits mean lower share price. But yeah, you go and tell me how I think again.

Some users a better off on the Block list.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Thanks for answering . I recently treated myself to a Rift S and reset my commander so my credits are sorely lacking. I don't enjoy mining either. I guess I need to find a wing then

I can heartily Recommend Loren's Reapers... But they are mainly based in Colonia... But wars have been plentiful in the last few months

 

[SENA-]

Not mining missions. Look for delivery missions from an Extraction system.
View attachment 197301

Deliver missions seems great BUT are NOT constant - you miss that ? Yes true you can get 1-2 golden fishes like the one you posted here , but YOU won't get that non-stop, right ?

Facts: like was very well pointed out here by @Exeider, many of players here ignore basic "details" - the clock vs profits !
The clock starts since you take off from station / carrier and stops when you land with the credits on the wallet.

Right now, if you go for Painite, you will get some 200k in 1 1/2 - 2 HOURS ! Last variant more probable. Is the time to get on spot, the time for mining, the time to reach THE RIGHT STATION ( most will give you prices in the range of Gold and Tritium, that is, between 75k to 150-200k ) ;

On other hand, I do over 140 millions / hour, with no stress at all, CONSTANTLY, day by day since the fraking nerf, just in passages missions, at Robigo !

Yup, the nerf is so bad and stupidly implemented, you make more credits and easier shipping passengers than mining Painite !!

It is ridiculous, and laughable.... And sure, is even more stupid if you go for lower things like Gold, Tritium, Platinum !

They wanted to nerf the Painite - they did-it, but they screwed the market also, and the trumpeted "max price" of 600 k never show up, did you noticed that ?!

Best I saw in 2 days was a bit over 400k and ONLY in one station with only few hundred units ....
Most of the stations will give you a bit over 200k now, and by no means that worth your time.
This nerf, and how was implemented, seems to me to successfully end the Painite rush... I doubt we will see soon, or EVER, that 600k on Painite. More probable the old ""792k" before nerf will be the 220k from today, and the old "1.092.000" will be the 400 k, if you are lucky....

So the nerf was not 40% but much worse, in the range of 75-80%, in practice. Why to go for laser mining anymore when with a lot less effort and a lot less risk you can make more credits, and even faster, from.... passengers , for example ? ....

To conclude - the devs maybe wished to nerf the Painite.... but in practice, looking at how things are, atm, they manage to almost kill the Painite mining...

 

[Rubbernuke]

The reason why I think this is hard for people to understand is, combat pays you instantly, when you kill a bunch of NPCs, you can see right in your transactions list how much money you are being paid (and I agree it's a joke), trade runs begin when you buy and end the moment you sell and you can see instantly how much money you made.

Yes and no. In CZs you know how much each ship is worth (and know on the map where they are), but for all other NPCs you have to KWS them for the full amount, otherwise you take it as is or just blow it up and find out (what most people do). You also have to get back to cash them in, subtract any IF fees and SLF pilot fees too so its not exactly cut and dry.

Traders have tools to know where to buy and where to sell ahead of time, whereas NPC spawns are random and you only know the general area to get high paying examples.

 

[SENA-]

Yes and no. In CZs you know how much each ship is worth (and know on the map where they are), but for all other NPCs you have to KWS them for the full amount, otherwise you take it as is or just blow it up and find out (what most people do). You also have to get back to cash them in, subtract any IF fees and SLF pilot fees too so its not exactly cut and dry.

Traders have tools to know where to buy and where to sell ahead of time, whereas NPC spawns are random and you only know the general area to get high paying examples.

Add the repairs - if you get hull damage in a big ship, the costs can burn a hole in your earnings... I did have some instances, when I screw up, when my Vette repair was near 1 million...

 

[babelfisch]

Have you Read a Word I said ?
They have been Balancing in SINGLE STEPS for 5 Years.
AND THIS UPDATE IS YET ANOTHER SINGLE STEP.

I have Literally Told you that this is what they have been doing for 5 Years.
They ONLY Address the Gold Rush.

My point was that they never announced changes with the other professions in mind, please read what I posted.

Or would you mind Pointing me to the Grand Bounty and Mission Balancing they have done in this Update now ?

They said these changes are coming next. I already provided the quote from the CM team. Please read it.

Just Answer me 2 Questions Mate.

1.
Do you Really Claim that Frontier has not Attempted to Balance the Economy for the last 5 Years ?
2.
What has Frontier Accomplished with this Update aside from Ending the Mining Gold Rush ?

1.
Yes. What they have done was nerfing gold rushes and making minor adjustments within a single mechanic. They never made balancing changes with different mechanics. A mining nerf never affected combat so far.

2. Balancing isn't finished yet, so your question is rather pointless.

 

[C64Fan]

I see.
I have an Extraction System close to my Home System where I am Allied with pretty much everyone.
I will check there later to see how common such Missions are. And if its worth doing it.

You are obviously the expert, so we can’t wait to read your judgement. How about making sure you actually understand someones comments before rejecting them? Have fun now.

 

[Brrokk]

Deliver missions seems great BUT are NOT constant - you miss that ? Yes true you can get 1-2 golden fishes like the one you posted here , but YOU won't get that non-stop, right ?

Facts: like was very well pointed out here by @Exeider, many of players here ignore basic "details" - the clock vs profits !
The clock starts since you take off from station / carrier and stops when you land with the credits on the wallet.

Right now, if you go for Painite, you will get some 200k in 1 1/2 - 2 HOURS ! Last variant more probable. Is the time to get on spot, the time for mining, the time to reach THE RIGHT STATION ( most will give you prices in the range of Gold and Tritium, that is, between 75k to 150-200k ) ;

On other hand, I do over 140 millions / hour, with no stress at all, CONSTANTLY, day by day since the fraking nerf, just in passages missions, at Robigo !

Yup, the nerf is so bad and stupidly implemented, you make more credits and easier shipping passengers than mining Painite !!

It is ridiculous, and laughable.... And sure, is even more stupid if you go for lower things like Gold, Tritium, Platinum !

They wanted to nerf the Painite - they did-it, but they screwed the market also, and the trumpeted "max price" of 600 k never show up, did you noticed that ?!

Best I saw in 2 days was a bit over 400k and ONLY in one station with only few hundred units ....
Most of the stations will give you a bit over 200k now, and by no means that worth your time.
This nerf, and how was implemented, seems to me to successfully end the Painite rush... I doubt we will see soon, or EVER, that 600k on Painite. More probable the old ""792k" before nerf will be the 220k from today, and the old "1.092.000" will be the 400 k, if you are lucky....

So the nerf was not 40% but much worse, in the range of 75-80%, in practice. Why to go for laser mining anymore when with a lot less effort and a lot less risk you can make more credits, and even faster, from.... passengers , for example ? ....

To conclude - the devs maybe wished to nerf the Painite.... but in practice, looking at how things are, atm, they manage to almost kill the Painite mining...

They're pretty constant. I took that screenshot yesterday morning. I logged back in in the evening and stacked the Cutter full of such missions. I did that three times. In less than an hour I made over 300Mcr, which I think compares favourably with mining at its peak.

As I've said, I expect FD will dial this back soon. I intend to look to see if they've yet done so tonight. If they leave missions like this I don't think any other earning method will come close.

 

[Vandaahl]

stuff

W/e, you already lost me at the previous question I was referring to people who don't mine (like me), you come up with people who never mined (not like me, I've been mining for years), and how they should refrain from yada yada...