the negative community narrative and the confirmation bias effect.

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watch this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjIAiJCNIk
Simply put,

I'm getting tired of frontier can only do wrong narrative. On everypage of the forum there are a 2-4 complaits threads, and has a couple of megathreads
From "this update is not space legs nor atmospheric landings",
to they have implemented only 1/4 of what this feature could offer.

From stop adding features and just fix the base game, to
why are you trying to fix the base game, we need more features.

and of course anyone who tries to just try to knock the hyperbole on the head and bring the complaints to some rational sensible feedback,
automatically get attacked that we're FD-lovers / Defenders.

Basically, the complaints boils down to a frustrated feeling of impatience. The only fact that is relevant to this feeling is the game people imagined at the kickstarter, is not in their hands right now.

The game has things that need to be done. FD are working on that.
you might not agree with the prioritising, but credit given to where it's due.

We got a game that works and is a lot of fun to inhabit.

From a massive procedurally generated galaxy, to a working political and background simulation, that ticks away quite nicely.
It works.
Yeah, there are bugs and issues, but for the main part, you have to agree, stuff actually works and works well enough to be enjoyable.

But it's taking so long, the impatient complain, and even some of the patient people who have waited for a couple of years now for space legs.

Sure it's simple to knee-jerk and think Beyond is not giving us space-legs nor atmospheric planets.
However it *is* the path that leads us there.
Having things like atmospheric *dead* planets, detailed enough to fly around, drive around and walk around - requires "2018's beyond" update.
But even the ushering in of the beige plague of 2017 was due to developmental increments in terrain rendering that had atmospherics in the design process.


People are suddenly realising like a simple idea of mining "Just blow up some rocks and collect the goods and that's mining done",
Actually requires way more work, and many many many iterations, and each iteration is based on player-based feedback.

Suddenly adding in these features, takes time, effort and then even more time. And it's daunting. Yes. Development *is* daunting. And getting the rough versions that land roughly in the ballpark takes a long time, refining it can take even longer.

Some features like the crime-and-punishment really needs to feel it's way forward - (and please use the relevant discussion forum HERE for that )

Frontier Are listening, and they want *you* to be a part of the development process to really *nail* the careers and the base game as they move forward in parallel with new features and storylines, missions and ships.

So please engange your brains, think before you type and adding more chorus to the conformation bias, and keep this negative narative rolling.

The game *is* work in progress, and ergo it *is* underdeveloped in certain areas and it requires your help and patience to get it in place.
And you get a say in this process too, unlike other games with development going on behind doors with aspirations they will hit the mmo ball out of the park straight off the bat.
*you* get to steer the game to where *you* want.

--------------------- extra post lost in the flotsam --------------------------
Demanding change (constructively) is something I encourage.
I myself said the game was underdeveloped since it is being continously developed on and admitted certain aspects of the game are functional to a degree but miss the mark.

You'll see posts of mine asking for material, station facility filtering in the system maps.
I've made multiple posts and added my voice to the posts about having heat-sinks to be synthesized, and how I believed it could be implemented (over time) as to not be exploitable.

Because "nice to haves" are logged, and if other likeminded people discuss rationally about the same feature gathering momentum behind that quality of life change, the more that feature bubbles up on the developer radar. If people try to mentally debug the feature on the forums, before it gets coded and play-tested, all the better.


And having been a developer, and a QA tester (and being a massive Valve fan hunkering down fruitlessly I might add, on Forum 81 (the official steampowered half life 2 episode 2 disccusion forum) waiting for the 3rd half life chapter - I've learned a thing or two about the length of time it takes to develop something successfully)

I know that complaints and suggestions can be enthusastically logged, and fixes can be in the pipeline: either they are already implemented by an enthusiastic developer or planned to be implemented.

Whether or not that code is actually scheduled for release, is a different story. It might never be shipped, it could fail QA by causing a catastrophic bug in another part of the code.

If all goes well, It might be months from a "hitting the nail on the head forum comment", to that specific bug fix or feature actually shipping, because there was scheduled maintenance or a planned overhaul of that area for or it makes sense to pack that micro-patch with some other patches that serves the narrative of that specific large update well.

I just want people to use their voices well, and help develop the game, not add their voices to a harmony of discontent - as that creates a bias that others players base their own discontent in when voicing the issue they wish to discuss.

Everyones opinions are valid, and tell a part of the story from a certain perspective (even if the language can be colourfull at times)

The endless negative threads are a symptom of an underlying problem. Telling people to shut up and take an aspirin will not cure the disease.

This patient needs surgery, doctor.
 
The endless negative threads are a symptom of an underlying problem. Telling people to shut up and take an aspirin will not cure the disease.

This patient needs surgery, doctor.

The underlying problem is expectations.

Everyone has or had different ones for this game. The game was released years ago- sold many copies, and is still here with many people playing it.

I'd call that a success.

Others may disagree, because they wanted something different. Nothing wrong with stating different expectations... but demanding, attacking others for having a different opinion or expectations than your own, etc. is just straight toxic. Period.

That said, if you don't enjoy spending time playing the game it's really quite simple, there are many other games out there to play.

Demanding this one change around your expectations isn't going to get you very far. By all means, continue to try if you wish.
 
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The underlying problem is expectations.

Everyone has or had different ones for this game. The game was released years ago- sold many copies, and is still here with many people playing it.

I'd call that a success.

Others may disagree, because they wanted something different. Nothing wrong with stating different expectations... but demanding, attacking others for having a different opinion or expectations than your own, etc. is just straight toxic. Period.

That said, if you don't enjoy spending time playing the game it's really quite simple, there are many other games out there to play.

Demanding this one change around your expectations isn't going to get you very far. By all means, continue to try if you wish.

I'm not the guy attacking people for having a different opinion. That's you.

Denying there is a problem and trying to shut down discussion of a solution reeks of toxic fanboi syndrome. In my opinion.
 
I'm not the guy attacking people for having a different opinion. That's you.

Denying there is a problem and trying to shut down discussion of a solution reeks of toxic fanboi syndrome. In my opinion.

I'm not "attacking" anyone. I'm simply bringing some logic and reality to your doorstep. Do with it as you will.
 
The underlying problem is expectations.

Everyone has or had different ones for this game. The game was released years ago- sold many copies, and is still here with many people playing it.

I'd call that a success.

Others may disagree, because they wanted something different. Nothing wrong with stating different expectations... but demanding, attacking others for having a different opinion or expectations than your own, etc. is just straight toxic. Period.

That said, if you don't enjoy spending time playing the game it's really quite simple, there are many other games out there to play.

Demanding this one change around your expectations isn't going to get you very far. By all means, continue to try if you wish.

The problem is that the expectations set by Frontier are not being met in a timely manner.

From Release to 2.4 is laundry list of Minimum Viable Product features pushed out and abandoned.
 
The game is profitable, fun to play, and adding new features. I'm pretty happy with things. About 1400 hours in so far and still haven't done any grind yet - I've enjoyed everything I did from materials gathering to exploration to combat etc. When something gets boring I stop doing it.

I don't think constructive criticism is bad though. But I agree with TS, I just skim over or skip negative threads, I don't need that stuff and it brings me down and decreases my game enjoyment.
 
I speak for myself, but if I put things in a scale, I did not see improvements this entire year. Quite the opposite, 8 saw many things I enjoyed doing get nerfed and found myself grinding more than ever before and meeting new bugs (not the thargoid variety). This months steam active player count is very low, lower than last year. This is after the Thargoid hype and expo. I do fear that if they don’t pick up the pace people will stop buying paint jobs and play even less than they are currently. For everyone’s sake, let people voice their opinion and put pressure on developers.
 
This thread isn't even about Elite Dangerous, but about forum posters.

Pretty sure most here know what "confirmation bias" is without watching a cartoon about it. The entire OP is pretty thick with "I'm rational, you're not" suggestions.

Do people get carried away with the moaning? Sure. OP is moaning about the moaning. Just more moaning.
 
I speak for myself, but if I put things in a scale, I did not see improvements this entire year.

...let people voice their opinion and put pressure on developers.
I'm not sure how you missed the improvements. Personally, I enjoyed exploring a Thargoid base, completing the Ancient Ruins mission, getting scanned by a non-hostile Thargoid (in my unarmed exploration AspX), etc.

As a software developer, I'll note that putting "pressure on developers" seldom leads to a good outcome. Usually what happens is that testing gets skipped, which leads to more bugs and reduced code quality.

Yes, I understand the impatience and frustration. Yes, I know there are numerous bugs in ED. Yes, I'd like to see them fixed and new stuff added. What I don't want to see is another rushed release with too many bugs.

No, I don't consider myself to be a fanboi, even though some others do. I enjoy this game, in spite of the issues and I believe FD is on the right track: Fix the fundamental issues, so that future development can proceed at a faster pace, with less bugs (and more automated testing).
 
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It's less about confirmation bias (even if I sound like I've swallowed a Frontier Consulting Contract), and more about the DunningKruger effect.

The unfortunate situation is that the difficulty lies in separating the issue, from the offered solution.

I love irony.
 
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Because the issues are other people, and if other people stopped being whatever it is that makes them a) other people and b) always wrong, we'd be fine.

Here's the thing. Are you ready? The issue with Elite: Dangerous, isn't the player base. Other commander's aren't the issue.

Endlessly complaining everyone else is the problem, and if we were all just not the problem, it'd be fine, ignores that there is a fundamental and deep seated refusal to accept the terms of the game as provided; in that it has a) an online element and b) other players. No-one can fix that. Not even the developer. The core technology is settled. Semantics abound, but the reality is, the above is intractable. It's as simple as that. And the frustration resulting, will never end.

One can either be consumed by that; or try to help the developer the best one can, with what one has. And hope for something better.
 
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One of the reasons the forum feels toxic is that every complainer wants to feel like a special flower and have their own thread but people with something nice to say end up with lots of 'me too'.

This skews the page to the negative.
 
I don't think people are impatient...
1) Are you suggesting we shouldn't talk (complain) about high level design choices seemingly resulting in bucket loads of development time giving us things like Powerplay, CQC, Multi-Crew etc? You don't think it's underlining how poor these choices potentially were in place of what could have been added instead? Especially when 2-3yr old placeholder mechanics are wearing thin?
2) We shouldn't question other thin gameplay being band-aided into the game, such as point and click generation ships? Remember the build up to those, and the in game outcome?

In short praise what's good, but lets not shy away from pointing out issues/problems. And let's remember, if you don't appreciate/like someone's comments no one is doing a "Clockwork Orange" on you and forcing you to read it. Ignore it... Done!
 
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Yin and yan, happy and sad, positive and negative, pros and cons. Whilst we humans still have the ability to create our own opinions there will always be diversity and difference, and long may it remain so. If everything on this forum was either positive or negative it would soon become a dull place.
 
Basically, the complaints boils down to a frustrated feeling of impatience. The only fact that is relevant to this feeling is the game people imagined at the kickstarter, is not in their hands right now.

<wall of text snipped>
My my. Aren't we impatient. Surely our over-active imagination is all to blame, and not game developer over-promising things when they badly needed money - which they later can't deliver. /s
 
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