The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Malpherian]

So let me put to you what I put to Malpherian earlier.

Let's assume you're not getting Guilds. Even if you could convince them right now to implement it, it would probably be a very long time before they did because they've already got a roadmap of what they are going to do in the next year.

So, if you're not getting Guilds any time soon, and you want Guild functionality, and you want it done easily in-game without requiring an extra screen, then wouldn't something like Overwolf have what you need? http://www.overwolf.com/

It supports Elite Dangerous and even has an Elite: Dangerous skin available

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVu--raWO60&feature=youtu.be

In terms of apps it has a range of chat, social, and other apps which should allow you to keep in touch and coordinate with your guild easily--again, all while in game and with an interface that blends in with the ED hud.

Why couldn't this give you much of what you're asking for?

Because it's a 3rd party program. As I attempted to explain earlier many people do not want to deal with 3rd party programs.

 

[Bacalao]

1. If a non guildy get on my trade route, it happened just the other day, we wing it up and we both got an extra 5% What you think am going to interdict him and kill him with my type9?
2. Yea but I broke immersion, going to type in the forums or watching Youtube video's and it took longer.
3. absolutely, If we are in USS and my shields drop he can move his ship in to take the damage while my shields recharge. Play as a team when playing as a team... imagine that
4. no did I mistype my thought? I was referring to fighting the NPC ships not have a NPC give me advice, as I know If I left out NPC it would read like I meant fighting players and from there it would just be inferred that I wanted griefing to to avoid any confusion on that point I put the fighting NPC's in there. What I meant was a player that was an expert at fighting in the USS's or in the conflict zones.
5. yea but you never know who you are speaking with on the forums or watching Youtube and sometimes they release these things called updates. So I go an watch a video on how powerful missiles are and as a new player I don't know that update XXX nerfed missiles. . somewhere
6.The option is always there for you to be free wheeling, do what you want lone ranger. No one anywhere I have seen has ever said we should have guilds and guilds should be mandatory. Did I miss that post somewhere? You have the option to play how you want to play, those that would like the option of playing in or as a guild don't have that option

1. Still gobbling up those peaches and sunshine!
2. You broke immersion when you introduced large scale player groups into a galaxy all about surviving and making it on your own.
3. I just love selective reading and understanding.
4. You mistyped your thought.
5. You never know who you are speaking to in a guild! If you all your guildies are these proven, trusted, long time in game companions, then they should ought to be on your friends list and you ought to just ask them, otherwise, they are just another rando (90% of any guild in any MMO) that got picked up so the guild numbers would grow. Or maybe it's all just peaches and sunshine.
6. Yup, I can now be free and solo and yada yada yada, but the galaxy isn't, now I live in a galaxy where it is a bunch of corporations/guilds/clans/etc, you've broken immersion, the culture, the atmosphere, everything about what the game is, you've made it Eve with a cockpit overlay.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

I vote no for guilds and no for player owned stations......sorry the game was made on the premise that you are a small fry and just a small cog in a very large wheel.....to put it plainly as a commander you just simply aren't that important.

Edit Pasted from closed thread on this subject: ......to reiterate a pilot in E: D is a nobody and just not important enough to own a station and for goodness sakes I hope this is something they never implement or ever see's the light of day. The game is not designed for guilds or players owning stations and I hope it stays that way......the only compromise should be a power chat channel for those who want to coordinate for power play in open and that is the extent of what should be done imho.

How is a pilot a "nobody". Maybe YOUR pilot is, I see my career in a somewhat more positive light. How does allowing 4 friends to tag their wing with a name make them any less of a "small cog". I never saw that line on the sales pitch "Be a nobody, be a cog in a giant machine, in a giant universe you can have no impact on."

 

[Bacalao]

Because it's a 3rd party program. As I attempted to explain earlier many people do not want to deal with 3rd party programs.

All these people wanting so hard to be social, but unwilling to do anything so easy to be social. You must be so dang dizzy.

 

[david6768]

So let me put to you what I put to Malpherian earlier.

Let's assume you're not getting Guilds. Even if you could convince them right now to implement it, it would probably be a very long time before they did because they've already got a roadmap of what they are going to do in the next year.

So, if you're not getting Guilds any time soon, and you want Guild functionality, and you want it done easily in-game without requiring an extra screen, then wouldn't something like Overwolf have what you need? http://www.overwolf.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVu--raWO60&feature=youtu.be

In terms of apps it has a range of chat, social, and other apps which should allow you to keep in touch and coordinate with your guild easily--again, all while in game and with an interface that blends in with the ED hud.

Why couldn't this give you much of what you're asking for?

I am speechless, nice well thought out advice from the opposing side who would have expected that Y
You know I have Overwolf, it came bundled with TeamSpeak and I never really looked at what it was or what it did.
It has quite a few good features but I want in game guild so I can see when Asp Explorer tries to mosey in on my trade route so I can grief him. <--( that is a joke)
But in all seriousness I was in a wing with my friend the other day and we were scouring the map for his mission target. I happened on his target and he was further away than 5 kM ( his sensor range) from me and it was kind of difficult to steer him to my location. I would like in game guild tools to. To be honest I would be happy without guilds just being able to press F12 and to be able to see everyone anywhere on the map that is currently in game. So I could be like oh look there is that guy who happened to be in the same conflict zone as me yesterday, let me see if he wants to team up again. Maybe I didn't add him to my friends list right away. In game right now I pretty much have to happen to be in an area that has another player, I have to happen notice them on my radar and chat from there it is all pretty random and rare. This is the most non multiplayer friendly "MMO" I have ever seen

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

1. Still gobbling up those peaches and sunshine!
2. You broke immersion when you introduced large scale player groups into a galaxy all about surviving and making it on your own.
3. I just love selective reading and understanding.
4. You mistyped your thought.
5. You never know who you are speaking to in a guild! If you all your guildies are these proven, trusted, long time in game companions, then they should ought to be on your friends list and you ought to just ask them, otherwise, they are just another rando (90% of any guild in any MMO) that got picked up so the guild numbers would grow. Or maybe it's all just peaches and sunshine.
6. Yup, I can now be free and solo and yada yada yada, but the galaxy isn't, now I live in a galaxy where it is a bunch of corporations/guilds/clans/etc, you've broken immersion, the culture, the atmosphere, everything about what the game is, you've made it Eve with a cockpit overlay.

Still posting with extreme paranoia. After having seen the "worst" that internet gaming has to offer in Eve I've got to say that your imagination takes it to an entirely new level.

 

[ianw]

And that's exactly why they act more Benignly instead of malignantly, because they are being held accountable by their peers. It's one thing to ram a trader to death in Lave as a lone wolf and snicker to yourself. It's another thing to do it while you've got 3 trader guildmates undocking in the same area and asking what's going on over TS.

Edit: To be clearer, the studies you're referring to refer to juvenile delinquency. Links I posted earlier are specifically about online social groups, and they prove what I've stated.

Well I wasn't referring to studies so much as personal experience with crowd control at several large public order events where the crowds were made up of working adults.

Studies tend to show whatever the person studying sets out to prove. If your claim about the civilising effects of guilds were true presumably wee wouldn't see the videos that seem to litter you tube.

And of course let's not forget that famous incident filmed live involving that guy in that game that you keep referring to.

Can't believe no-one's brought it up yet so I kind of felt obliged. Somehow that civilising influence seemed to bypass that guy and many of his followers.

I'm afraid no study will convince me that I will benefit from guilds in game or that the game as a whole will benefit - with the exception of those that want guilds - as I've already stated.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

All these people wanting so hard to be social, but unwilling to do anything so easy to be social. You must be so dang dizzy.

Most ED players can't be bothered to use the search function in the forum to find answers to their questions. What's your point?

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Well I wasn't referring to studies so much as personal experience with crowd control at several large public order events where the crowds were made up of working adults.

Studies tend to show whatever the person studying sets out to prove. If your claim about the civilising effects of guilds were true presumably wee wouldn't see the videos that seem to litter you tube.

And of course let's not forget that famous incident filmed live involving that guy in that game that you keep referring to.

Can't believe no-one's brought it up yet so I kind of felt obliged. Somehow that civilising influence seemed to bypass that guy and many of his followers.

I'm afraid no study will convince me that I will benefit from guilds in game or that the game as a whole will benefit - with the exception of those that want guilds - as I've already stated.

What you're referring to is mob mentality. That's an entirely separate animal.

Mob mentality is exactly what we get on these forums when someone introduces a topic for a new feature, such as guilds.

You're going to have to be more specific than "That guy". I've made a lot of examples out of Eve players. And I'd advise against selecting one sample out of half a million people and not expecting me to fire back with 20 others as a counterpoint.

 

[EUS]

<chortles>

Don't laugh, they were a great band.

 

[Malpherian]

You do understand that FD is real and your guild in EVE was just make believe in a game right ?. And be wary of people claiming to be the king of Nigeria on the internet.

If you are tired of EVE why are you lobbying for EVE features, why not play the game as is.

EvE is not the progenitor of space games. (Well.. maybe it is in the MMO market). But it's not the end all be all for what one has to have. A Feature, is an improvement, you can have similar features in a game, and not even be remotely similar to the game the idea came from.

* The Idea of Guilds for social grouping and interaction and support, is 1000's of years old.
* The Idea of Space battles and System wars, and colonization of both space and other planets, is a scifi idea 1000's of years old. Even the Egyptians perceived the possibility.
* The Idea of player owned structures, in MMO's, has been around since the 90's.

So nothing we are suggesting, is "EvE like" or even remotely comes from EvE, these ideas come from the same place that EvE got them from. So we are not trying to make ED EvE like. We are simply trying to make ED, Better, for everyone.

Link us some examples please, the guildies have certainly been flinging some mud.

Read the thread there are tons of links and posts with citations to Evidence "For" guilds. And absolutely "None" against them.

You give an opinion nothing more, we give ours. Both are equally valid (but ours is the right one).

Stating your opinion is correct does not make it so, Show me evidence (None of you have given us any yet). Show me an instance where guilds ruined an MMO.

If your correct that should be easy.

Since every single MMO on the market I can personally think of has guilds.... It seems like the opposite would be true. Businesses generally in my experience do not do things which will not increase the profitability of their games. Guilds are a tried and true proven method across the last 30 years to increase population, sales, and social interaction.

Now you're insulting him again.

Pointing out that someone is acting like a child, or Looks like a fool when they do something most would consider immature or well stupid. Is not insulting someone, it is pointing out that the person should re evaluate their actions, and condone themselves in a more adult-like manner.

 

[mossfoot]

Already use Overwolf. I was on TS before the cool kids heard about TS. Not everybody uses it though, or wants to. Many people prefer to have all of the social tools built within the game and balk at using third party apps. Gamers are lazy, you have to spoonfeed them.

I play alone almost exclusively. Guilds will not benefit me one bit directly. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize their use and purpose in MMO gaming. It has been a cornerstone of the market for 30 years and games without the features flounder and eventually flop. Indirectly guilds will benefit me by ensuring the long term success and popularity of the game.

Then that's where guilders need to nut up. What make more sense:

a) argue for a year to get features added, having to bicker and convince everyone else to agree to what they want, then wait for it to actually be implemented

or b) using a third party program that's free, customizable, and provides most, if not all, of the features they want.

If these people are lazy (and therefore I assume don't use things like VoiceAttack or head tracking software or Shadowplay or anything else like that) then it's up to the people who want to make this happen to make it as easy and convenient as possible.

Come up with an ideal "guild" configuration, with whatever apps are needed already set up, and make it as close to "one-stop-shopping" as possible, rather than being overwhelmed with the idea of having to get a program and then the apps, etc...

Or, you know, they can stick with their nothing for the next year. That works too.


What I'm saying is, encourage people to be problem solvers. I wanted to feel like i was flying in a cockpit rather than a fixed forward viewscreen - I did not spend the last six months demanding that ED implement native head tracking recognition.

This situation is no different.

Guys, any time people bring up the idea of guild communication, mention Overwolf. Encourage them to look into it. And anyone who currently uses it and wants a guild? Why don't you come up with an "ideal" setup for it you can share to make things easier for potential users?

Let's be problem solvers, on both sides of the issue.

 

[Bacalao]

Still posting with extreme paranoia. After having seen the "worst" that internet gaming has to offer in Eve I've got to say that your imagination takes it to an entirely new level.

Says the guy who couldn't sleep at night because of the stress the player groups caused in Eve....yup, lets bring that into ED, that's what we want!

You call prudence, paranoia. No, not everyone is that way, but enough are. You, Mr Rosy two shoes seem to believe that everyone, so long as they are in a guild with you, is your friend, and everyone in every other guild, is the friend of your guild(for some reason tips/advice are to be shared in guild only! but we really like all the other people too), and they all have all the best most up to date advice, they'll all take a bullet for you, they'll give you their credits, after all, you play a video game together, you can trust them for information and rely on them for safety, you can put all your free time into their hands with 100% certainty.

Well I think you're crazy because you don't have what I deem to be realistic expectations of people, but I pity you. <---the windscreen smudge method of settling a debate.

 

[Asp Explorer]

<chortles>

If only I wasn't on my phone. I'll look into providing some links when I get home.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

And as other have pointed out - the game is about 1 pilot and their ship against the galaxy. There are no guilds supported officially - don't like that - don't play.

(this is good - I do prefer a simple abbreviated exchange rather than walls of text - don't you?)

Well some of us play with freinds you know Also, I will direct you to the above poll, and the poll on reddit. Elite is a game where you can buy and sell things, mine, shoot things and explore. You also pilot a spaceship yes. NONE OF THIS, excludes the possibility that one day players may be able to own their own landing pad, or (GOSH) a station. If I am such a one pilot vs the Galaxy type, how come I own 3 ships the size of aircraft carriers? How much more is a platform gonna be? Again, by your own logic, Wings was a step to far, because now it is 4 pilots vs the Galaxy. Not to mention Powerplay...

 

[ianw]

Most ED players can't be bothered to use the search function in the forum to find answers to their questions. What's your point?

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What you're referring to is mob mentality. That's an entirely separate animal.

Mob mentality is exactly what we get on these forums when someone introduces a topic for a new feature, such as guilds.

You're going to have to be more specific than "That guy". I've made a lot of examples out of Eve players. And I'd advise against selecting one sample out of half a million people and not expecting me to fire back with 20 others as a counterpoint.

Seriously - I can't be with this. I have an opinion based on a preference nothing you can say or claim to "prove" will change that.

I'm gonna have to call it off - I hope we can still be friends - it's not you it's me - I'm just not not ready for a lengthy discussion that you're just gonna keep twisting. I'm sorry if I led you on - but there's plenty more fish in the sea - you'll be fine!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Elite: Dangerous, I propose we can now call it "Egalitarian: Safe Space". Because consent is fun. One commander, alone, killing thousands of enemy ships, messages telling him he is Elite, making him feel all warm inside. No threats of others...

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Says the guy who couldn't sleep at night because of the stress the player groups caused in Eve....yup, lets bring that into ED, that's what we want!

You call prudence, paranoia. No, not everyone is that way, but enough are. You, Mr Rosy two shoes seem to believe that everyone, so long as they are in a guild with you, is your friend, and everyone in every other guild, is the friend of your guild(for some reason tips/advice are to be shared in guild only! but we really like all the other people too), and they all have all the best most up to date advice, they'll all take a bullet for you, they'll give you their credits, after all, you play a video game together, you can trust them for information and rely on them for safety, you can put all your free time into their hands with 100% certainty.

Well I think you're crazy because you don't have what I deem to be realistic expectations of people, but I pity you. <---the windscreen smudge method of settling a debate.

Lol. The players didn't make Eve stressful, my style of play did. The players are what made it fun and kept me from quitting in the first week.

I'm a PvPer, go ask in the Open PvE thread how many degrees I am removed from the bottom-feeders of the game. I am the first person here who should be paranoid about people out to get them, but that doesn't change what I know, and what has been proven, about human nature. Social groups improve social behavior.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Why not. Then everyone who was never going to buy it can complain about how it will ruin their game lol. Given I am getting the lifetime pass, the more expansions the better for me #ConsumersDriveMarkets

 

[david6768]

Alright I am going to throw this out there than I am done for the day on the forums. My allocated forum time has been spent and I have a new A class power plant to earn and that ain't happening here
Yes guilds have had their problems and there have been negative sometimes associated with them. I too have played a game Ark Survival that is a great game that is completely ruined but the sheer amount of PVP. There are guilds but I am not sure the guilds are the reason for it. Personally I think in Ark Survival the map is too small and the structures are too easy to destroy so the game play mechanics play directly into the hands of those that want to be griefers. It is actually easier to break into someone's base and steal their stuff than it is to earn it yourself. The gameplay mechanic and structure of that game facilitates the griefing.

This is not EVE as the nay sayers keep pointing out and with guilds or without it doesn't have to be EVE or EVE like.
To quote the bionic man theme or whatever it is " we can rebuilt it, we can make it better, stronger, faster" We can learn from the mistakes past games have made and here with ED we can make the game that everyone refers to when they refer to how guilds should work and should be implemented.


HOWS THAT FOR PEACHES AND CREAM

 

[Robert Maynard]

Lol. The players didn't make Eve stressful, my style of play did. The players are what made it fun and kept me from quitting in the first week.

I'm a PvPer, go ask in the Open PvE thread how many degrees I am removed from the bottom-feeders of the game. I am the first person here who should be paranoid about people out to get them, but that doesn't change what I know, and what has been proven, about human nature. Social groups improve social behavior.

Social behaviour within the group or with players outwith the group?