Game Discussions The No Man's Sky Thread

[Ian Skippy]

In my eyes Sean Murray is more the hero and David Braben is more the villain. Then there's that Star Citizen guy (can't remember his name) - he's Emperor Palpatine, LOL.

But can you explain why?

One guy said:"I'd love to do all of [X], I can promise you [Y] by december 2014 for [Z money] and we'll try to take it as far as we can!"
Another said:"I already did [X] and if you give me [Z money] you'll have it in a few weeks!"

When ED 1.0 was launched, it contained what FD said it would contain. Anyone buying it on launch day got exactly what he paid for. When NMS 1.0 launched it simply did not, and when pushed Sean Murray continued to lie about that. How does the latter make you a 'hero'? Is it really as shallow that 'if I eventually like what I get you are a hero no matter your conduct'?

 

[ifthisworks]

Love both games, but seem to spend more time in ed. Probably a lot less intense in ed, certainly not as much inventory juggling which can be a bit boring/annoying after a while. VR helps ed enormously, and the planets, while being incredibly dull by comparison to NMS are somehow more stunning (sometimes). Looking forward to VR in NMS.

I wasn't on the hype train, so when I read the steam description for NMS on day 1 release, it never mentioned multiplayer - which is why I bought it. A sci-fi cover looking exploration game with no multiplayer and landing on planets. ME BUY.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I think it has more to do with competence. HG with 25 employees (currently) can do more and better than another with 100 or more.

That is without any doubt wrong. What FD accomplished is far harder than anything HG has done. Whether that translates to fun is, again, your opinion. If you think FPS and base building compensates for a very poor galaxy generator and abysmal flight model that you use a gamepad or mouse and keyboard with, that is fine. But while ED might get things like space legs and base building, NMS will never get something like Stellar Forge, the BGS or the far more complex flight model.

HG has used a small team to combine pretty generic game-design elements into a product you may find very enjoyable. But what they have done pales in comparison with what FD has done on a technical level, regardless of whether it is fun to you. Talking about 'competence' is just weird in this context, and it strongly appears you want to externalize your preferences for games. It isn't needed, you can just say:"FD accomplished a number of great feats with ED, but I simply enjoy another game more." You dont need to downplay obvious accomplishments of others just to justify your own taste.

Finally, you know that a major expansion is coming to ED next year, one they spend a considerable amount of time and resources on. It would make sense to wait and see what they actually have been working on before complaining about what they are working on.

 

[mdsilva]

Love both games, but seem to spend more time in ed. Probably a lot less intense in ed, certainly not as much inventory juggling which can be a bit boring/annoying after a while. VR helps ed enormously, and the planets, while being incredibly dull by comparison to NMS are somehow more stunning (sometimes). Looking forward to VR in NMS.

I wasn't on the hype train, so when I read the steam description for NMS on day 1 release, it never mentioned multiplayer - which is why I bought it. A sci-fi cover looking exploration game with no multiplayer and landing on planets. ME BUY.

True. Steam never showed in the description of NMS the game as multiplayer when the game was released.

 

[Ian Skippy]

True. Steam never showed in the description of NMS the game as multiplayer when the game was released.

That is why people aren't saying that Steam lied, but that Sean Murray lied.

 

[mdsilva]

That is why people aren't saying that Steam lied, but that Sean Murray lied.

Just as it is said about David Braben

 

[ifthisworks]

The trick is not to believe a single thing that sales people say, especially prior to release. SM, DB or PM. Especially PM

 

[Ian Skippy]

The trick is not to believe a single thing that sales people say, especially prior to release. SM, DB or PM. Especially PM

Who is PM?

Personally I separate claims into two categories: simple factual ones and 'fluffy fantasy' ones. The former are things like "does your racing game support racing wheels?", "is there a single player campaign?" and other yes/no questions. The 'fluff' ones are where they use words that evoke compelling fantasies but without them literally saying it. "Imagine you could do [x]!" doesn't mean you can do X. All words like 'amazing', 'never seen before', 'mind-blowing' and so on are always ignored. Anything that includes "we hope/aspire/will attempt" and variations of 'maybe/possibly/likely' are all classified as 'no' until they give me a solid 'yes'.

That way I never have been burned except for two games: X:Rebirth and NMS. The former simply forgot to mention that the game was literally and factually broken at launch. They worked hard to fix it, eventually it became a good game but I was not happy about that. I got burned with NMS because it was one of the rare cases were a studio isn't just 'creative' with the fluffy fantasy talk, but actually lied about the factual ones. In my case it wasn't even the multiplayer lie, it was that the minimum specs were wrong(!). With the minimum specs you could not launch the game, at all. They later fixed it (was an OpenGL issue), but until then they kept selling it with the wrong specs while trying to block refunds. With X:R people unanimously agreed that that was wrong, but somehow people will keep defending Sean Murray for literally everything. Its odd.

 

[mdsilva]

The trick is not to believe a single thing that sales people say, especially prior to release. SM, DB or PM. Especially PM

Exactly. The problem is just what I said here

Game Discussions - The No Man's Sky Thread

In my eyes Sean Murray is more the hero and David Braben is more the villain. Then there's that Star Citizen guy (can't remember his name) - he's Emperor Palpatine, LOL. But can you explain why? One guy said:"I'd love to do all of [X], I can promise you [Y] by december 2014 for [Z money] and...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[GraXXoR]

Lol, that has been promised for what, three months? And they clearly announced when it was dropped way before launch, and you could have gotten a refund then. In contrast, SM lied about multiplayer, then when it released continue to lie it was in the game.

Again, if that is okay with you, that is your call. But one is being transparent about things not working out, the other is being dishonest. You seem to be fine with being lied to as long as you eventually get what you want. Others have different ideas about that. You are upset about ED developing slower than you hoped, others are upset about intentional dishonesty. Different people consider different things important, I guess.

No you couldn’t get a refund if you’d already paid for the alpha.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I only bought NMS earlier this year, so missed all of the release drama.
I consider it to be a good 'arcade game' with spreadsheet management to the fore. ED has a far more complex system in place and the only similarity in both games are space/ships!
I like the 'simple' flight mechanics in NMS, no perma-boost jousting...
Fortunately, apart from space/ships the two games really are chalk & cheese and I'll play either according to their individual merits - but still looking forward to next week and seeing the result of their efforts in bringing VR to NMS

 

[Ian Skippy]

No you couldn’t get a refund if you’d already paid for the alpha.

When was Alpha sold, and when did they promise Offline?

 

[dannysquid]

I enjoy NMS for a short while but don't find myself treating it quite so much like a second life! It's fun to revisit from time to time though. I think it's mostly the controls I don't like.

(And I think Subnautica is better at lots of the things NMS is good at.)

 

[GraXXoR]

I don’t think the base game purchasers were hard done by, but I do think the LEP buyers would look at NMS and sigh at the quality of their free DLC having paid up to £100 for their rather lacklustre LEP.

But, I have faith that neither game is done yet. ED may well still surprise us. Their mega update is scheduled next year so I don’t think it’s fair to compare quite yet.

If FDEV’s 2020 update turns out to be another bolt-on mixed bag of what that nobody asked for then the LEP buyers will rightly be annoyed.

*discalimer: I only found out about NMS from
GOG so I missed the whole hype train.
I’ve played it every update for a total of about 500h and will restart for 2.0 (that’s <12c per hour)

ED I’ve played two commanders 1500+300h respectively so it’s the game I’ve played most by a Looong way. But I’ve spent $300 for the Alpha and $20 for another account and over $200 in cosmetics over the years!

I will say that ED has given me more moments of mind blowing gameplay overall but both required about the same amount of “grind” (distant worlds)

 

[Ian Skippy]

But, I have faith that neither game is done yet. ED may well still surprise us. Their mega update is scheduled next year so I don’t think it’s fair to compare quite yet.

I think NMS and ED are in two very different positions, update-wise. As SM said, they were done with NMS but decided they do another free update 'because they could'. As it happens this one is the one I am most interested in, as VR really transforms a game IMHO. But this could very well be it, and if Beyond pans out well I suspect HG will consider their reputation salvaged enough that they can go for NMS2. At the end of the day the NMS engine isn't nearly as scalable as SF, so there is a hard limit for what they can do. And with the next generation of consoles coming, NMS is going to look really dated. So my bet is that Beyond will finish NMS, and that they will start working on NMS behind the scenes.

FD seems to be in a very different position, and I get the very distinct impression Next Era will be a go/no go moment to the board. They are clearly trying to get the game as polished as possible for new players, and I suspect Next Era sales will determine whether FD will add another 5 years to the ED development program for the new consoles. If so, Next Era might be the last XB1/PS4 compatible update. That way space legs would make more sense, as they can use the upped system requirements for atmo planets for 2022 or some such. But that would really depend on whether Next Era will connect with enough sales to show there is a market to warrant that kind of investment...

 

[cpbtrading]

Arguing is really a waste of time, space games are back and I for one am a happy bunny. I paid £150 for ED and £60 for NMS.. I also have a number of other space games that were much cheaper and in some cases better, than both of the above mentioned.

However, £150 for ED was an early in (Beta) and was to help support the game plus have free access to later dlc's (that is what it said, iirc).. I'd pay it again within a blink of an eye, just because, if space games were to come back and they did, ED had to be there for the genre to feel complete, even though I rarely play it now. It's just nice to have it back, even if it didn't turn out (yet) to be what I expected, after this long.

NMS I pre-paid and certainly would not argue about the price, I've had more than my monies worth and they are still bringing out huge updates, so can't argue with that. Looking forward to the new update in a few days.

I did have a fair bit invested into SC at one stage, but I do need to see some sort of developer restraint, when CR started telling everyone via his chairman slot, that all ideas that were sent into him, were great and he would probably be implement them.. Then I had to refund..
I still think SC could be a great game, but this time, I'll wait untill full release, should I still be living , that is..

Just be happy space games are back, I am.

 

[Han Zulu]

In my eyes Sean Murray is more the hero and David Braben is more the villain. Then there's that Star Citizen guy (can't remember his name) - he's Emperor Palpatine, LOL.

Chris Roberts.

Well, I think CR is a lot worse than ever DB or SM ever was. He's constantly been lying about features and releases and he doesn't get threats like SM did, no, CR gets money instead. Go figure.

 

[Han Zulu]

Arguing is really a waste of time, space games are back and I for one am a happy bunny. I paid £150 for ED and £60 for NMS.. I also have a number of other space games that were much cheaper and in some cases better, than both of the above mentioned.

Agree. I don't care anymore about keep the release drama alive. What happened, happened, and Sean have explained what happened from his point of view, and as a former developer, I get it. I can totally see what kind'a mistake he did.

Anyway, ED and NMS are both great games, for different reasons. I've spent 10 times more hours in ED than NMS, but that's probably because I flew around the whole galaxy.

However, £150 for ED was an early in (Beta) and was to help support the game plus have free access to later dlc's (that is what it said, iirc).. I'd pay it again within a blink of an eye, just because, if space games were to come back and they did, ED had to be there for the genre to feel complete, even though I rarely play it now. It's just nice to have it back, even if it didn't turn out (yet) to be what I expected, after this long.

My biggest regret is that I didn't buy into kickstarter of ED. I got on the train later. Wish I had been there in the beginning.

NMS I pre-paid and certainly would not argue about the price, I've had more than my monies worth and they are still bringing out huge updates, so can't argue with that. Looking forward to the new update in a few days.

It kind'a works great with NMS v ED releases. Now, I have NMS to play until September and/or December when EDs next version comes out. And when I'm not playing either one of those, I play Beatsaber or program in Assembly.

I did have a fair bit invested into SC at one stage, but I do need to see some sort of developer restraint, when CR started telling everyone via his chairman slot, that all ideas that were sent into him, were great and he would probably be implement them.. Then I had to refund..
I still think SC could be a great game, but this time, I'll wait untill full release, should I still be living , that is..

Yeah. I uninstalled SC a while back. Still have a basic license though just in case I feel like installing again. It could be great... maybe.

Just be happy space games are back, I am.

Totally, and there's a bunch of space games being made right now. The danger though is though a saturation of the market, and nothing really unique being done. All games are starting to look the same and have the same features.

 

[Old Duck]

Just be happy space games are back, I am.

I bought Everspace awhile back on sale, but I just couldn't get used to the controller layout on PS4 (very limited customizations compared to ED). I did not get my money's worth out of the game, but I see it as an investment in genre. The more money space-theme games make, the better IMO.

I'm not sure I'll like the new RGO, but I might buy it anyway with this in mind (on sale, of course).

 

[Han Zulu]

I bought Everspace awhile back on sale, but I just couldn't get used to the controller layout on PS4 (very limited customizations compared to ED). I did not get my money's worth out of the game, but I see it as an investment in genre. The more money space-theme games make, the better IMO.

You just pointed out something I didn't think of before. I've tried a bunch of the new space games (pre-releases, betas, etc), and none of them really stick for me. Not so much because of the graphics (which is kind'a dismal with many of them), but because of the controllers. I'm having a hard time getting used to a new set of ways of doing things and new buttons etc. And this is probably why NMS got me hooked from start because the controllers were easy. I can't spend hundred hours to learn to fly a space ship again. If a game has advanced controls, they now need a "rookie" mode at least for me.