The Old Elite IV speculation thread

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I believe David had his words twisted into what the magazine wanted to print. We are (as of right now) not due to make an annoucement any time soon - in fact we are still arguing internally about the right time to make such an annoucement. Some people want to start talking publically early (and continously) and some want to hold off until later when there would be more to show. It is not a huge religous war or something that we are having, just different points of view.

And while I am correcting quotes I believe David B did not say that Elite IV would be made following the Outsider, only that it would be released after the Outsider - which is close but not quite the same thing.

DON'T make that announcement too soon.
It could lead to a tremendous impact.
Keep it quiet and smooth.
Do your work.
We waited for 20 years now and are still playing it.
I can wait for another two years - DON'T panic.
Just sweep those BUGS out this time.

And PLEASE remember my theatrical trailer:

Black screen.
Zoom to Mars.
Zoom to a giant space station.
Music: Johann Strauss.
Title: The greatest game of all time is reborn.
That's enough said.
 
Been thinking about this mission thing, how does this sound for a system open ended and free but allowing people to chase immersive content?

Ive split this into two sections one ground side and one space side but its all much the same system.

For example ground side (fairly certain theres a ground components this time round), the player would see this :- you have an aggressive narcotic addict npc with a need to make cash by stealing stuff ground side, he kills another npc and robs him, whilst in the process a police npc comes into sight, the aggressive npc may then flee. therefore the police ai in response place a fugitive tag on that npc, the npc members family of the deceased may place a contract on the aggressive npc, etc etc.

By giving npcs goals and actions and letting them sort themselves out, the npc interactions could give rise to missions you can take. (I would assume that not all cargo missions come from the coriolis station) Its all stuff that can be written into code fairly easily as far as I can see, the setting of values and needs isnt too much of a problem, all you need is scripts to support the actions needed to satisfy those needs, then let the needs and supply and demand take care of itself.

Of course being as this is elite we are talking about you could procedurally generate the npcs their actions needs and associations. The planets political designation could determine the proportion of wealthy to poor npcs the number of potentially violent npcs etc etc.

Although for some "hard coded" missions, or static points of interest you may want a database of npc's you could have a large entirely procedural population interacting and creating missions around you, you may even witness the murder that creates a bounty yourself! or you may be the murderer!

In order to keep this system sane in terms of processor useage what you do is have a "range" of the player in which these events are worked out in diferent levels of details.

Say you land at a planet, the planets procedural generation has already assigned the planet regions, cities and districts, each with its population figures and "archetypes", to create wealthy and poor areas, crime rates and types and business numbers and types. Based upon these figures a calculation is made for how many "missions" are being generated AND fulfilled in each area of the planet - maybe names are assigned to these happenings for the purpose of news reports etc "keith smith murdered" "assailant unknown".

The city you land at then procedurally "fleshs" out this information by taking the missions and then distributing them around the region in which you land. More murders or assaults in assigned "rough districts" for example, more trading needs assigned to business districts. Still no individual npc behaviours are needed the system just knows that Keith Smith was murdered and has assigned the unkown assailant a name "Alan Jones" and assignes the crime to one of the areas determined by probability, as you travel around the city the area immedeatly around you is "fleshed out" further.

For the district you are currently in, unique npc level AI is procedurally generated to fit the districts already generated "profile" and additionally the missions, For example the system creates "Alan Jones" a known narcotics offender with 5 credits and needing a hit (just an example the game can pick from and combine form many possiblities). BUT it runs no scripts. It just assigns him (and all npcs) a location (simple x,y,z) and probability of him mugging someone again. if the dice roll comes up for him to mug someone the probability of who he mugs and being seen and if so who by is all worked out through simplified rolls based upon "nearby" npcs. NOTE the maths has no idea about the actual world its purely mathematical work. This happens in "real time" But no "behaviour" is being ran its all just maths.

Local police will be on the case, represented by a simple probability of catching the criminal etc etc. At the district level of detail, the current missions have all been assigned to the individual AI to represent "stuff thats occured before you arrived". The case of alan jones is being generated in real time to give a "live" world - missions actually being generated in real time, it gives an illusion of a living breathing world, theres a past - statistical and assigned to npcs as you arrive in the district, theres a present being generated mathmatically over a large area.

Finally theres the "detail" only being worked out within video rendered distance. As you move around the district the system takes the mathematical npcs (with xyz coordinates) and for those within render range pops them into "full on" npcs, using full AI, At this point they go from statistical to processing needs and trying to fulfill those needs so Mr Alan Jones may be trying to score his hit, whilst laying low from the police etc etc. Not only does it give you a chance to interact with events from the "local news" but because of the "live" nature of the district events can happen WHILST you are around, you may witness Mr Jones next mugging, or a murder by a procedurally generated npc or Mr Jones being arrested by the police or being terminated by an assassin etc etc.

This gives the player the "chance" to see incidents that they can work on later as a mission or they can "intervene"
 
Space could work on the same principle with stuff being worked out purely statistically at the galactic level - very low levels of processor useage for the extra "life" breathed into the situation. But at the current system level things are worked out in greater detail but still purely probability. Then within a certain range things actually happen and you can intervene or react.

For example at a galactic level demand for each type of tradeable item is worked out statistically. When you arrive in a system cargo missions are generated depending on supply and demand in the nearby systems. These missions may be advertised on a bulletin board, with the deal being sealed face to face (ala the dark wheel)

The player COULD use these missions to get an idea on whats hot and whats not, and so have a chance to make a large profit by trading themselves in the goods suggested by the missions - but with no guarantee that the supply and demand situation wont have changed by time they get there! where as taking the deal from the mission generator gives a lower but guaranteed pay out!

Similiarly for assassination missions this sort of system would statistically generate ship destruction reports for every system within "news" range at each landing, attaching names to events and generating a news story thus allowing a player (bounty hunter) to read in the "news" about a wealthy merchant destroyed in say zaonce and a reward for the pirates destruction (or perhaps for information). The bounty hunter player can then take this news and use is as a lead to mission etc etc.

You could probably design the system so there is a load of "news" available which consists of all the statistically generated crimes \ missions padded out with lots of more mundane stories, Give the size of the galaxy there would be huge amounts of "news" and the player could sift through it by system, but it would give the player scope for a heck of a lot of "kill" or "capture" missions space and ground side.

Of course being a news hound wouldnt be a guaranteed source of income as by time you get to a system it could have been resolved by probability! Giving a player a chance to really be part of a living breathing galaxy!

sucess or failure in these missions could open up invites from "factions" with more "interesting" missions available and create a "reputation", trade assosciations bounty hunters guilds, pirate clans etc etc these specialist groups (including of chourse the dark wheel) would open the door to the more high quality "scripted" missions for more focussed and tightly written quests, these missions would give what turwhitt is looking for, and I do believe would be essential for the game to be well received, as long as they are optional not compulsory.

The procedural missions give plenty of opportunity for the player to find things for themselves, chase down leads apply their intelligence earn mission money, and for the player to "get their name in the news" etc

Good writing skills are essential for news stories, npc dialog during contract negotiations, and bulletin board adverts etc. The system provides the backbone of a living breathing world, which the specialist groups you can join give free reign to "scripted" missions for more focussed and tightly written quests.
 
Wasn't this thread about new info ?

http://www.developmag.com/news/30256/Elite-4-technology-almost-finished-says-Braben
Frontier founder confirms that sequel to famed space game will land after The Outsider
Frontier Developments is close to finalising the technology that will power Elite 4, the long-awaited sequel to boss David Braben's space adventure series.

Braben confirmed the news during a talk at the Develop conference today (July 30th, 2008).

He said that the game itself "had not been forgotten" and that it would be released after his political adventure game epic The Outsider is released next year.

I have questions (again !) :

How come info like this can be reavealed at a conference and printed on a non Frontier website and not on this forum even though we all keep asking for new info ?

As it was not revealed on this forum, is there any truth to this info ?

Can we ever expect to be given info from Frontier on this forum and if not is there any point in continuing to use it ?

Apologies if this seems a bit negative, but maybe you can see my point here.
I do admit though, if true, this is encouraging.

Maybe Smars (or someone else from Frontier) would like to comment ?
 
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To be fair smars was refreshingly honest on page 2 of this thread, and I'm sure will come back to us when he has more news. Information management is obviously tricky for companies like Frontier, I'm grateful for any info after so many years of waiting!
 
I am very grateful to Smars (or anyone from Frontier) for posting comments.

Smars is always honest and has corrected me a few times.

I hope that my questions don't come over as a negative fed-up rant, that is not how I feel, it's just that things happen and because I don't work in the games industry, I don't understand why things happen the way they do.

ANY accurate info on Elite 4 is welcome whatever it's source, however after so many false leads, i'm a bit of a sceptic. I belive the game will be finished sooner or later, but I don't believe everything I hear.

All i've asked for is that someone (who is usually Smars) confirms or denies things. I understand and respect that they can't leak info, but when another website has info on Elite 4, I ask why that website and not this forum or Frontier's website. I also am sceptical of it's validity.

Like the X-Files, I want to believe, help me do it.
 
No problem, I try to answer what I can.

Now, appologies for being late with this answer but I was hoping to have a few other things cleared up at the same time. Turned out that was overly optimistic so here is what I can currently say:

David B was misquoted during his speech in Brighton last week. Elite IV has not been announced and when it is you will read about it here on our forum.
 
Elite IV has not been announced and when it is you will read about it here on our forum.

There may or may not be a "sticky" coming with some more answers, but don't hold your breath.

YAY SMARS !!!! :D:D:D

David B was misquoted during his speech in Brighton last week.

The only thing I can say right now is that David B was misquoted and the game has not been announced.

BTW I Told You So !

ANY accurate info on Elite 4 is welcome whatever it's source, however after so many false leads, i'm a bit of a sceptic. I belive the game will be finished sooner or later, but I don't believe everything I hear.

That's why I ask for confirmation, and I hope people at Frontier don't mind confirming or denying things.



I like this very much. I'm going to use this in conversation at the next possible opportunity!

Remember my royalty as phrase writer ! :D
 
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Hallo to everyone,

i should make a short presentation of myself before saying anything else:

I am Sterlino, i'm following the video games evolving just from the first age ('70) as many of you i was in love with ELITE just from the first sight (1984 for me).
After reading some of your posts yesterday night i was continually thinking about elite4 and how it should be done. (it doesn't happens from 10 years, strange o_O).
And i remember that the last thought, before falling in the arms of Morpheus, was: surely the first thing to be done is to changing the point of view of the player.
You must know that in these last decade i begun to introduce me in the games editing with thief www.sterlino.tk and i know what a 'creator' think: that it can be done, those not.. etc.. etc..
well, i was very suprised today reading the late 2004 interview with Braben that he says: 'in elite4 you are a person not a spaceship'.
Great Braben, we both have the same thinking about elite.:D it's a good sign..

and that is the main reason why he continually say: ' i was waiting for the right tecnology'
He was waiting for the right 3d engine that permit to be a human (or an alien, that will be interesting) that moves inside his (or her) spaceship that is surrounded by the entire Galaxy to explore !! amazing. :) (and totally mad, as usual dear Braben, i love u)

ok
..see ya on the 2010.:cool:
 
yeah, he needs to wait until technology is able to do it as well, not just software. I would settle for a graphical update on frontier with a few gameplay improvements, but I don't think that would be good enough for Mr Braben, and thank the gods for that. I think he'll deliver something truely elite. :D
 
Hallo to everyone,

He was waiting for the right 3d engine that permit to be a human (or an alien, that will be interesting) that moves inside his (or her) spaceship that is surrounded by the entire Galaxy to explore !! amazing. :)
:

This has been possible for quite some time.
 
Hallo to everyone,

and that is the main reason why he continually say: ' i was waiting for the right tecnology'
He was waiting for the right 3d engine that permit to be a human (or an alien, that will be interesting) that moves inside his (or her) spaceship that is surrounded by the entire Galaxy to explore !! amazing. :) (and totally mad, as usual dear Braben, i love u)

ok
..see ya on the 2010.:cool:

Star Wars Galaxies has had the ability to walk around your space ship in the middle of space since around 2004, there you can do so with friends as well, and some of the ship even have great windows (other than the main viewscreen) that actually "work" as well.
 
He was waiting for the right 3d engine that permit to be a human (or an alien, that will be interesting) that moves inside his (or her) spaceship that is surrounded by the entire Galaxy to explore !!
Well, the harder part (ship surrounded by a helluva lot of space) was accomplished in Frontier, so why not?

Getting the spacesim part right is more important to me than being able to walk around, though.

P.S.
Dibs on the reptilian aliens! :D
 
Star Wars Galaxies has had the ability to walk around your space ship in the middle of space since around 2004, there you can do so with friends as well, and some of the ship even have great windows (other than the main viewscreen) that actually "work" as well.

You've reminded me of my defiled love. I think i'll have to go and cry now.

But yes exactly - the technology is here. I can't help but think it's an excuse.
 
You've reminded me of my defiled love. I think i'll have to go and cry now.

But yes exactly - the technology is here. I can't help but think it's an excuse.

Theres two games that are consistant in my all time greatest games charts Elite (any flavour) and Starwars Galaxies Pre-cu then CU. Sandbox is my style of play.

Elite I can still play...

Galaxies may have always been bugged to heck, and have been released probably a year too early, but the concept was great. Today its a shell of it former self, They probably have the best dev team that theyve ever had, but the population isnt there, and they still have the classes instead of the former open system.

Ive still got 3 accounts open that I really should get round to hibernating again... But theres still not enough games out there that offer so much freedom.
 
Theres two games that are consistant in my all time greatest games charts Elite (any flavour) and Starwars Galaxies Pre-cu then CU. Sandbox is my style of play.

Good man.

You are aware about the SWG Emu project? Bringing back Pre-CU? I know they got a bad name for themselves and rather over-stated their time scales, but they have got really on the case lately. I would say there is a good chance of a working EMU by the end of this year. I am aware that people have been saying this for years, but have a look at their test centre. So much of the original game is already there, and new features are being added/tweaked at an impressive speed.

If you're interested i can point you in the direction of a great, mature server community.

*note to moderators* The SWG Emu project is totally legal, and requires an original copy of the game to play. No piracy is implied.
 
There's a difference between having the technology and having the technology do exactly what you want. :)

Michael

It's always possible to find new things that "would be nice". At the end of the day, games like Mass Effect show that as far as graphics and scale go, there is quite adequate mainstream technology to make a new Elite to a standard that today's gamers will love.

By the "excuse" comment i don't mean to say that your company is misleading us. Just that "We're waiting until the correct technology comes along" is a more acceptable and exciting reason to quote than "E4 is going to cost a lot to develop, and we'd like to make a bit of money from lesser projects first so that we have a cushion to fall back on", which i think is probably closer to the truth.

Sorry if that sounds inflammatory, i have the utmost respect for your company and director, and hope that the project is one day completed, and that it is the most successful game of its time. Mine is just the opinion of a wine-soaked veteran.
 
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