The Old Elite IV speculation thread
I'd expect the getting out of your ship to be seamless. You should also be able to walk around your ship. Check your weapon lockers, perhaps leave the cockpit/ bridge and go down to a room where your jump destinations are controlled and like the room goes dark and up pops the holo graphic 3d galaxy. Stuff like that should be seamless.... walk down your boarding ramp, walk around stations... plus no load times or nothing 
Ship Customisation
Designing your on ship would rock, you could make thouse suttle adjustments to your favorite ship (Asp Explorer) to better suit your style.
Imagin being able to go to the New Rosthy ship yards and meeting up with a designer who then offers to build your dream ship for you...
Now that would be cool.
Designing your on ship would rock, you could make thouse suttle adjustments to your favorite ship (Asp Explorer) to better suit your style.
Imagin being able to go to the New Rosthy ship yards and meeting up with a designer who then offers to build your dream ship for you...
Now that would be cool.
Elite IV
I got into the elite/frontier series on the Amiga with Frontier Elite II. One thing that bothered me about both the frontier games is the way speed is handled. I think one thing elite 4 would need is a more advanced options. Like being able to set your speed to displayed relative to any object. That would have made mining small moons a lot easier.
I don't think Elite 4 should be an MMO because flying would get really boring without star dreamer. Maybe a separate MMO could be made in the Elite universe.
Another thing is procedurally generated content. The previous frontier games had a lot of procedural content. People who would be inclined to think a modern game can't be primarily procedurally generated should look Spore up on google. Practically everything in Spore is procedural and that allows the game to have a huge amount of extremely flexible content.
I think the most important thing is realism. That is what really got me into the series. I remember accidentally getting a nearly perfectly circular orbit around a planet just above the atmosphere. Stuff like that keeps me going back to play FFE.
I got into the elite/frontier series on the Amiga with Frontier Elite II. One thing that bothered me about both the frontier games is the way speed is handled. I think one thing elite 4 would need is a more advanced options. Like being able to set your speed to displayed relative to any object. That would have made mining small moons a lot easier.
I don't think Elite 4 should be an MMO because flying would get really boring without star dreamer. Maybe a separate MMO could be made in the Elite universe.
Another thing is procedurally generated content. The previous frontier games had a lot of procedural content. People who would be inclined to think a modern game can't be primarily procedurally generated should look Spore up on google. Practically everything in Spore is procedural and that allows the game to have a huge amount of extremely flexible content.
I think the most important thing is realism. That is what really got me into the series. I remember accidentally getting a nearly perfectly circular orbit around a planet just above the atmosphere. Stuff like that keeps me going back to play FFE.
I'm glad to hear some Elite IV news, I've always found the outdated Elite IV page on the site abit worrysome. For years I have worried that Elite IV would be vaporware and only ever released, after Team Fortress 2 and Duke Nukem Forever. It is great to hear, Elite IV hasn't been forgotten.
As for games to keep you occupied until Elite IV is released, I would recommend in no particular order:
Battlecruiser Millenium Gold (little known game by Derek Smart, complicated game to learn with constant reference to the huge game manual needed)
Freelancer
Freespace 2 (freeware)
Vegastrike (open source)
Oolite (open source)
X2: The Threat
X3: The Reunion
EVE Online (online MMORPG, lack of realtime ship combat is it's downside)
Orbiter (free space flight simulator)
As for games to keep you occupied until Elite IV is released, I would recommend in no particular order:
Battlecruiser Millenium Gold (little known game by Derek Smart, complicated game to learn with constant reference to the huge game manual needed)
Freelancer
Freespace 2 (freeware)
Vegastrike (open source)
Oolite (open source)
X2: The Threat
X3: The Reunion
EVE Online (online MMORPG, lack of realtime ship combat is it's downside)
Orbiter (free space flight simulator)
Oh Star Lancer which was actually a prequel to Free Lancer, is about one of the best linear mission based space games ever.
Also its got a coop mode which means ya can play through the single player missions with your mates.
oh also, Elite IV should defienitly have some sort of multiplayer. To relase an elite game in this day an age and not use the technology to its fullist would be a sin. It does'nt need to be an mmorpg but ya should be able to host it on a lan and let people load their commander files onto your server and fly about. Or perhaps even store the commander profiles online much like the way battlefield 2 works.
<Posts merged, please do not double post - Michael>
Also its got a coop mode which means ya can play through the single player missions with your mates.
oh also, Elite IV should defienitly have some sort of multiplayer. To relase an elite game in this day an age and not use the technology to its fullist would be a sin. It does'nt need to be an mmorpg but ya should be able to host it on a lan and let people load their commander files onto your server and fly about. Or perhaps even store the commander profiles online much like the way battlefield 2 works.
<Posts merged, please do not double post - Michael>
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I'm interested to see how "Spore" turns out with this thing thats going on where your game downloads fresh content from the internet (from other players) but still remains a single player game.
If that works, it could make a lot of games replayable over and over. And i'm thinking Elite IV too.
Crew management could be an interesting angle for larger ships, no one person could do it all by themselves.
Capturing ships and towing them would probably happen too, I mean if you think about 16th century pirates, they wouldn't sink a boat, they'd take the boat, sell the cargo, and then sell the boat, which would be worth a pretty penny... if it wasnt too badly damaged. That would make combat interesting, you need to try and disable a ship without damaging its market value too much.
Maybe you could take your crew and board the vessel, instant FPS
If that works, it could make a lot of games replayable over and over. And i'm thinking Elite IV too.
Crew management could be an interesting angle for larger ships, no one person could do it all by themselves.
Capturing ships and towing them would probably happen too, I mean if you think about 16th century pirates, they wouldn't sink a boat, they'd take the boat, sell the cargo, and then sell the boat, which would be worth a pretty penny... if it wasnt too badly damaged. That would make combat interesting, you need to try and disable a ship without damaging its market value too much.
Maybe you could take your crew and board the vessel, instant FPS
Development of Elite 4 and Expansion packs
To start with I'm all for E4 being released when its perfected as good as can be. What I was thinking of was that there must be so many ideas for features to include in the game that some may have to be left aside for reasons of development time and costs etc. So after everything that can be programmed into the game at best is then released. After the sales figures show that the game is a success and becomes popular, why not continue to develop the game further through expansion packs and extend the game, for example like what expansions did for The Sims 2 ?
Each expansion can add new features that haven't been programmed yet due to costs and time in the initial release of the game but in this way would allow the game to add those worthy (great ideas, but we chose to leave them out) features If the expansion packs are popular then the game could be extended for some time. Graphical updates as well as new ships and tools for creating custom content could be considered as extras to put in these expansions too.
(This might be a way to release the game in the near future and still fit the vision of what the designers have for it.)
What does anyone else think to this ?
To start with I'm all for E4 being released when its perfected as good as can be. What I was thinking of was that there must be so many ideas for features to include in the game that some may have to be left aside for reasons of development time and costs etc. So after everything that can be programmed into the game at best is then released. After the sales figures show that the game is a success and becomes popular, why not continue to develop the game further through expansion packs and extend the game, for example like what expansions did for The Sims 2 ?
Each expansion can add new features that haven't been programmed yet due to costs and time in the initial release of the game but in this way would allow the game to add those worthy (great ideas, but we chose to leave them out) features If the expansion packs are popular then the game could be extended for some time. Graphical updates as well as new ships and tools for creating custom content could be considered as extras to put in these expansions too.
(This might be a way to release the game in the near future and still fit the vision of what the designers have for it.)
What does anyone else think to this ?
"What would be great is oxegen supply as well as fuel, that adds another thing to keep topped up."
Yes, that could add to the suspense. How about water? Though I geuss you'd then need food too. Maybe different configuirations of life suport / waste / food reprocessing systems... or maybe just an irelevant distraction? Mmmm.. I haven't thought that through, but somehow making inane suggestions sort-of alleviates the endless waiting... if you know what I mean.
Yes, that could add to the suspense. How about water? Though I geuss you'd then need food too. Maybe different configuirations of life suport / waste / food reprocessing systems... or maybe just an irelevant distraction? Mmmm.. I haven't thought that through, but somehow making inane suggestions sort-of alleviates the endless waiting... if you know what I mean.
It is certainly a plausable idea and would definitely make economical sense for Frontier Developments. Say the original game costs £30-£50 and each expansion costs £10-£15 and they are released fairly regularly (say every 12-18 months) then it would be a good and continual source of income for the company. That is assuming good sales, but I have little doubt that the game will take the the computer game market by storm.
Kipper said:I'm interested to see how "Spore" turns out with this thing thats going on where your game downloads fresh content from the internet (from other players) but still remains a single player game.
If that works, it could make a lot of games replayable over and over. And i'm thinking Elite IV too.
Crew management could be an interesting angle for larger ships, no one person could do it all by themselves.
Capturing ships and towing them would probably happen too, I mean if you think about 16th century pirates, they wouldn't sink a boat, they'd take the boat, sell the cargo, and then sell the boat, which would be worth a pretty penny... if it wasnt too badly damaged. That would make combat interesting, you need to try and disable a ship without damaging its market value too much.
Maybe you could take your crew and board the vessel, instant FPS
thats the kind of idea that I like. in the vein of UFO enemy unknown. ( A very old game) A standard ship config for all within the same class (cobra mkIII) and a few random elements within those depending on the mods that have been done to them. Obviously in the FPS guise though and not turn based.
THIS has got to be the bravest move ever outta Frontier
Wow.. i'm stunned..
I'll have to come back, once the shock has worn off and i can think clearly..
This thread is gonna grow faster than a teenager in the summertime..
my own $0.02, includes things like:
- Please don't abandon newtonian physics! My god, no game ever beat trying to change direction at 14,659Km/s
- Please let us get out of our ships and walk around.
- PLEASE don't operate like Derek Smart. Don't live in a bubble and only -your- ideas are worth anything, damn anyone in the community who isn't a raving drooling sycophant!
- Please PLEASE port Elite 4 to Linux [and the Mac i suppose]. The heyday of Windows as the only OS in town are long over.
And above all, more than ANYTHING you do....
- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not neglect [in some opinions, STOP neglecting] or shuck off the fanbase for this game. Communities make and break titles. The ideas in the Elite 2 & 3 community are some of the best in the world. People who played this game 20 and 10 years ago, STILL believe it's one of the best games ever written. From a design standpoint, from an execution standpoint, scientific standpoint, from many standpoints [graphics notwithstanding]..
The Elite 2 & 3 communities have cared more about this title than the authors it seems; "oh tra la, ya we wrote it, it's old now, move on!" We've been waving the Elite flag with no real support for longer than any game i can think of, and certainly longer than Frontier has.
Now it's going in a "whole new direction"?
Will nigh 10 years of community input and desperate pleading go totally "oh tra la.. our ideas are better"..
time will tell i guess.
*apprehension*
Wow.. i'm stunned..
I'll have to come back, once the shock has worn off and i can think clearly..
This thread is gonna grow faster than a teenager in the summertime..
my own $0.02, includes things like:
- Please don't abandon newtonian physics! My god, no game ever beat trying to change direction at 14,659Km/s
- Please let us get out of our ships and walk around.
- PLEASE don't operate like Derek Smart. Don't live in a bubble and only -your- ideas are worth anything, damn anyone in the community who isn't a raving drooling sycophant!
- Please PLEASE port Elite 4 to Linux [and the Mac i suppose]. The heyday of Windows as the only OS in town are long over.
And above all, more than ANYTHING you do....
- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not neglect [in some opinions, STOP neglecting] or shuck off the fanbase for this game. Communities make and break titles. The ideas in the Elite 2 & 3 community are some of the best in the world. People who played this game 20 and 10 years ago, STILL believe it's one of the best games ever written. From a design standpoint, from an execution standpoint, scientific standpoint, from many standpoints [graphics notwithstanding
].. The Elite 2 & 3 communities have cared more about this title than the authors it seems; "oh tra la, ya we wrote it, it's old now, move on!" We've been waving the Elite flag with no real support for longer than any game i can think of, and certainly longer than Frontier has.
Now it's going in a "whole new direction"?
Will nigh 10 years of community input and desperate pleading go totally "oh tra la.. our ideas are better"..
time will tell i guess.
*apprehension*
VictorT said:
I don't want to start a Lin Vs Mac Vs Win War, but I felt it worth saying that for gaming, Windows still is the only OS in town. Don't get me wrong - I wish that wasn't the case, and I've always wanted to support Mac and Linux users myself - but that's purely for the principle of it. If you want to talk from a purely financial point - Linux just doesn't have a gaming market. You are talking 5% of sales if you are lucky, but even more support hassle than Windows what with all the different distros. It just doesn't make sense if you want to make money. All the companies I know that have released on it have also done it purely because they thought it was the right thing to do and not because they thought it would make any money. Yeah, it would be great if E4 comes out on Linux, but I can't see any financial argument for it. As for the Mac - it has a decent sized shareware market, but for mainstream developers, again there's now the opinion that serious gamers will just dual boot on an intel Mac, so it's automatically supporting their game. I already know Mac users who do this, and they thought it was great because they could get rid of the windows box they kept just for gaming!
I too wish more support was available for Mac and Linux, but trying to argue for it on grounds of finance isn't going to do us any favours as I'm sure any big developer will be able to get sales stats for those platforms, and isn't going to be swayed by them.
Of course, I'm just one ex-mainstream developer in the UK. Anyone else with developer contacts hearing anything different?
Perhaps this should go in its own topic...
Bounder said:
Pretty good ideas!
Fuel and Oxygen are needed to keep the ship going, but food could be seen as a "luxury" food and water could be used to keep your passengers happy.
Ive had another idea, shorten the "1 month and your passengers will get mad" thing. Maybe to 3 weeks. But the game player should be able to adjust this as many new Elite players wont be able understand it. I know using hyperspace uses a couple of days/weeks and this can be annoying especially on military missions.
And who can forget... Identikit Faces! If they are mega realistic, the computer I own at the time of elite 4's release, will probably run at 1 fps, then after a couple of seconds I will get a [Insert Name of graphics card manufacturer that happens to be the best at the time of elite 4's release] Driver error saying "Are you crazy???"
Lets discuss my ideas.
maybe this should be it's own thread but...
EDIT: replies to this ought to go in http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Yes. This is 1999 logic. In 2006, Linux is a household name, everywhere you turn now.
I implore you to look at ataricommunity.com, Neverwinter Nights 2 forum, specifically the multiplatform support thread.. The clamor to have NWN2 ported to Linux and the Mac have made this thread one of the top 5 longest threads on their site..
I also recommend you actually -read- the thread, and recognize that it is not an OS war, but genuine requests, one after the other, by unique accounts, to have the ports to Linux and Mac. ...And mostly for Linux.
OS wars are uninformed discussions had among children who don't understand computers. If you like Windows, go right on ahead and like it, nobody's going to hold it against you. Elite 4 will certainly come out for Windows, so this post, and posts like it, might not speak to you, and shouldn't concern you.
But Linux and MacOS X have millions and millions of users. In many cases, highly educated users with means. Both of these communities are very large, growing substantially, year after year, and are compatible with each other, much more so than Windows has traditionally been. It is to your own detriment if you are not in some small way a member of each of these communities, as well Microsoft Corporation's.
Also.. Look the numbers of Linux users in the Neverwinter 1 community, look at the sheer number of Linux game servers in the wild. Look at the sales numbers for the Linux release of X2, Unreal Tournament, every idsoftware game ever created, especially Quake 4. Look at sites like happypenguin.org, and linuxgames.com, and the numbers of registered users and activity levels on these sites..
Oh, and just to quickly dispell some misconceptions..
- Linux gamers are perfectly capable of supporting themselves. They have been since Linux's inception, and in the gaming realm, it is no different. If the publisher of a game doesn't provide support, of course that'll look bad, though because they do provide the game for linux, linux gamers will happily support themselves.
- Linux and Mac gamers are willing to pay MORE for a title [and usually have to], and they stay with a title longer, capitalize on extensibility more deeply, and are a higher calibur of gamer than your average fickle game-of-the-week windows gamer.
If Elite 4 is indeed going to be this revolutionary thing, the likes of which humanity has never seen; it is certainly going to be extensible. It certainly makes realistic fiscal sense to invite the communities which most embrace and understand extensibility, Linux and Mac gamers. Who better to have than Mac gamers to set a title apart among people with money; professionals, designers, students, artistic types, people who are just tired of viruses and malware [an entirely provocative jab, feel free to ignore]? Linux and Mac gamers, what a terrible idea to have as members of your game's community, right?
Another thing to notice about the applications on sites like sourceforge, and the higher profile games announced on happypenguin and linuxgames is; the availability of many titles on all three platforms, Windows, Mac, and Linux. Properly portable code can be written to make it easy to compile across platforms..
Don't get me wrong; I, nor anyone in the linux gamer community, am NOT INTERESTED IN THE SOURCE CODE for Elite 4. Don't care about it, don't want it, don't need it. We just want to play the game. We'll pay thru the nose for it, and we'll pay for the expansion packs, we'll add content to the game, and long after all your windows players have left E4 for World Of Oblivioncraft XXVI: whatever of the month. We will still be adding content and playing E4, and begging you for E5. And most likely, paying full price for it.
Community, community, community.
Community alone determines the longevity of a title! Frontier Developments, of all organizations, should understand this ridiculously well. Elite has one of the richest, most mature, most fanatical communities in video game history! You can't BUY the kind of community that's grown up around the Elite series. The lengths we've gone thru to be able to [continue to] discuss and play such an ancient game should rightfully astound you.
And guess what operating system the majority of us are playing on..
To be clear; this is not an OS flame!
Windows - written by a company. Everybody tolorates it, a few people even like it. The default computer gaming platform. I completely expect Elite 4 on this platform.
MacOS X - written by a company. Once people try it, they generally fall in love with it. The "alternative" computer gaming platform. Fundamentally compatible with Linux. It wouldn't be a suprise at all to see an E4 release on this platform.
Linux - written by the people, for the people. A more flexible and robust desktop environment than Windows or MacOS has ever had, or will have for years. Higher learning curve. Friendly to both open and closed source realms. The next-generation computer gaming platform. Users traditionally capable of supporting themslves. Elite 4 on this platform would only vault the respect and reputation for Frontier Developments high into the ionosphere.
And honestly, Does the UK really still feel like Microsoft has such a great unbreakable hegemony? Wake up and smell the network people. Linux has no one nationality.
And to conclude:
Not [someday] explicitly announcing Linux/MacOSX support will certainly generate a very long thread indeed. It will certainly leave a bad taste in the mouths of Elite fans everywhere, and certainly exclude many of Elite's most fanatical players, like me, who've abandoned the Microsoft windows platform altogether since 1997 [for my own reasons]. For Frontier Developments, a mild, non-financially impacting, thorn in the side for the lifetime of the game.
Conversely, [someday] explicitly announcing Linux/MacOSX support, will exponentially raise the awareness of E4, and Frontier Developments on a whole, among the world's technical elite, among types who are the science fiction genre's biggest fans, among the best technically educated, and among the demographic which most certainly will be drawn like bees to flowers when Elite 4 is available. They'll want their friends to play, and their friends will want their friends to play, ad nauseum.. Frontier Developments will be a welcome name, hollered about in circles which otherwise would never heard of the company. You know how Word-Of-Mouth works, better than advertising! Awareness directly translates into revenue and longevity.
It's really wait and see and hope for many of us, as it has been for the last 13 years.
-m
EDIT: replies to this ought to go in http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=882
Fost said:
Yes. This is 1999 logic. In 2006, Linux is a household name, everywhere you turn now.
I implore you to look at ataricommunity.com, Neverwinter Nights 2 forum, specifically the multiplatform support thread.. The clamor to have NWN2 ported to Linux and the Mac have made this thread one of the top 5 longest threads on their site..
I also recommend you actually -read- the thread, and recognize that it is not an OS war, but genuine requests, one after the other, by unique accounts, to have the ports to Linux and Mac. ...And mostly for Linux.
OS wars are uninformed discussions had among children who don't understand computers. If you like Windows, go right on ahead and like it, nobody's going to hold it against you. Elite 4 will certainly come out for Windows, so this post, and posts like it, might not speak to you, and shouldn't concern you.
But Linux and MacOS X have millions and millions of users. In many cases, highly educated users with means. Both of these communities are very large, growing substantially, year after year, and are compatible with each other, much more so than Windows has traditionally been. It is to your own detriment if you are not in some small way a member of each of these communities, as well Microsoft Corporation's.
Also.. Look the numbers of Linux users in the Neverwinter 1 community, look at the sheer number of Linux game servers in the wild. Look at the sales numbers for the Linux release of X2, Unreal Tournament, every idsoftware game ever created, especially Quake 4. Look at sites like happypenguin.org, and linuxgames.com, and the numbers of registered users and activity levels on these sites..
Oh, and just to quickly dispell some misconceptions..
- Linux gamers are perfectly capable of supporting themselves. They have been since Linux's inception, and in the gaming realm, it is no different. If the publisher of a game doesn't provide support, of course that'll look bad, though because they do provide the game for linux, linux gamers will happily support themselves.
- Linux and Mac gamers are willing to pay MORE for a title [and usually have to], and they stay with a title longer, capitalize on extensibility more deeply, and are a higher calibur of gamer than your average fickle game-of-the-week windows gamer.
If Elite 4 is indeed going to be this revolutionary thing, the likes of which humanity has never seen; it is certainly going to be extensible. It certainly makes realistic fiscal sense to invite the communities which most embrace and understand extensibility, Linux and Mac gamers. Who better to have than Mac gamers to set a title apart among people with money; professionals, designers, students, artistic types, people who are just tired of viruses and malware [an entirely provocative jab, feel free to ignore
]? Linux and Mac gamers, what a terrible idea to have as members of your game's community, right? Another thing to notice about the applications on sites like sourceforge, and the higher profile games announced on happypenguin and linuxgames is; the availability of many titles on all three platforms, Windows, Mac, and Linux. Properly portable code can be written to make it easy to compile across platforms..
Don't get me wrong; I, nor anyone in the linux gamer community, am NOT INTERESTED IN THE SOURCE CODE for Elite 4. Don't care about it, don't want it, don't need it. We just want to play the game. We'll pay thru the nose for it, and we'll pay for the expansion packs, we'll add content to the game, and long after all your windows players have left E4 for World Of Oblivioncraft XXVI: whatever of the month. We will still be adding content and playing E4, and begging you for E5. And most likely, paying full price for it.
Community, community, community.
Community alone determines the longevity of a title! Frontier Developments, of all organizations, should understand this ridiculously well. Elite has one of the richest, most mature, most fanatical communities in video game history! You can't BUY the kind of community that's grown up around the Elite series. The lengths we've gone thru to be able to [continue to] discuss and play such an ancient game should rightfully astound you.
And guess what operating system the majority of us are playing on..
To be clear; this is not an OS flame!
Windows - written by a company. Everybody tolorates it, a few people even like it. The default computer gaming platform. I completely expect Elite 4 on this platform.
MacOS X - written by a company. Once people try it, they generally fall in love with it. The "alternative" computer gaming platform. Fundamentally compatible with Linux. It wouldn't be a suprise at all to see an E4 release on this platform.
Linux - written by the people, for the people. A more flexible and robust desktop environment than Windows or MacOS has ever had, or will have for years. Higher learning curve. Friendly to both open and closed source realms. The next-generation computer gaming platform. Users traditionally capable of supporting themslves. Elite 4 on this platform would only vault the respect and reputation for Frontier Developments high into the ionosphere.
And honestly, Does the UK really still feel like Microsoft has such a great unbreakable hegemony? Wake up and smell the network people. Linux has no one nationality.
And to conclude:
Not [someday] explicitly announcing Linux/MacOSX support will certainly generate a very long thread indeed. It will certainly leave a bad taste in the mouths of Elite fans everywhere, and certainly exclude many of Elite's most fanatical players, like me, who've abandoned the Microsoft windows platform altogether since 1997 [for my own reasons]. For Frontier Developments, a mild, non-financially impacting, thorn in the side for the lifetime of the game.
Conversely, [someday] explicitly announcing Linux/MacOSX support, will exponentially raise the awareness of E4, and Frontier Developments on a whole, among the world's technical elite, among types who are the science fiction genre's biggest fans, among the best technically educated, and among the demographic which most certainly will be drawn like bees to flowers when Elite 4 is available. They'll want their friends to play, and their friends will want their friends to play, ad nauseum.. Frontier Developments will be a welcome name, hollered about in circles which otherwise would never heard of the company. You know how Word-Of-Mouth works, better than advertising! Awareness directly translates into revenue and longevity.
It's really wait and see and hope for many of us, as it has been for the last 13 years.
-m
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