Mutually exclusive. If you ask the later, the first one (core principle of ED) has to change up to your wishes.
It will never happen.
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Mutually exclusive. If you ask the later, the first one (core principle of ED) has to change up to your wishes.
It will never happen.
Maybe, maybe not. I'm hopeful that as leadership at FDEV has changed, so will the overall direction of the game towards the more multiplayer focused direction. time will tell.
I can tell you right now, no need to wait.
Nope, it will never happen.
EDIT
The only Open Only place is CQC. As I said many times, it would be much wiser if you PvP guys figure out modes of CQC that will suit you, and push with all your might here for it. That is possible. (for what it's worth, I would support you there)
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Noone is hiding on solo
just because you can't see them just means either your connection won't allow them to play with you or they are in a different timezone .I have never met you in open so youust be playing solo or PG. We both only have each others word that we are playing in "open" . I could be open on UK and you somwhere else in the world else it's two different opens so not "Open" as many think .Open is a series of PG depending on your connection.
Perhaps Fdev shouldn't rely on P2P ? As to trade cutter I don't fly without shields( I tend to crash a lot ). I believe that your rebuy costs should be related to your defensive capabilities. No shields full cost is required and you lose any engineering .
The mistake I think a lot of people are making is conflating PvP with Power Play control points being effected only by play in Open. Agony Aunt in particular seems to reduce pvp down to single ship combat (apologies to AA if I'm mistaken) . My argument that PP is a pvp mechanic stems from the fact that the map doesn't move without deliberate player action if players don't pledge to a power and don't take specific actions the map doesn't move. Unlike the BGS which is effected by players just playing the game. Just narrowing down a feature to PvE just because their are elements such as settlement raiding that aren't specifically player on player action doesn't mean the over all competition, and it is a competition isn't player versus player. Is really that hard to grasp? Or is it just convenient to move goal posts of what defines pvp to suit an ajenda?
Still PvP, and a lot more exciting and seat of the pants than spending days(!!!) stalking players.
That's rather... erm...worrying.
Noone is hiding on solo
Open is a series of PG depending on your connection.
Perhaps Fdev shouldn't rely on P2P ? As to trade cutter I don't fly without shields( I tend to crash a lot ). I believe that your rebuy costs should be related to your defensive capabilities. No shields full cost is required and you lose any engineering .
No one is hiding in Solo? Good, so making PP open only won't hurt anyone. I more or less agree with the rest of your sentiment about instancing but that's a limitation of the game. Again though, if this is the case there is no harm in making PP open only then is there?
The shieldless trade cutter comment wasn't to shed light on a specific activity but more about just how risk free activities have become. The only objection I have to your rebuy cost being related to defensive capablities idea is that credits have pretty much been rendered irrelevant in this game (which to be is a far far bigger problem with the game than any of this PP stuff).
You're not getting it. No one is hiding in Solo, it's a mode which wise and balanced people use to avoid annoyances and irritants.
I don't know, if I play in Open my friends in Mobius will think I'm hiding from them. Why is one kind of hiding worse than another?
It's all done very simply. The security score is a multiplier of notoriety points, anarchy is 0.
I totally agree with your credits points.
So I'm going to take an instance I'm in open doing PP and you are in yours now I meet an enemy commander and due to my good looks I actually win. I get 1PP point
Now you are doing PP and meet noone
Do you still get a PP point ( I'm using points as relative term) well if you did that's not fair really I mean that's like you were playing in solo .
So we are back to the underlying limitations of the game, instancing .
Open , Solo and Private group are all accepted modes for everyone to play the game they want how they want. You can't then shut off parts of that game not after all these years.
I agree that it's unlikely... but it's clearly something FDEV have debated internally for a long time because the idea came from them originally back in 2018.
I personally think PP PvP missions would be more effective at enhancing PvP gameplay (see my sig) than open only PP but I wouldn't say no to it
Why because you say so? How arrogant. If you are CHOOSING to participate in Power Play and you are playing in Solo you are hiding. From your tone, I'm going to also assume you don't know much about being either wise or balanced. I'd agree with you if you were talking about the average player just playing the game doing their mining, running missions or bounty hunting. But again desiring to alter the power play map while being 100% assured of not being interfered with isn't avoiding irritants and annoyances unless you are using a very self centred definition of what is annoying and irritating. You might want to make sure you are actually 'getting it' before making that accusation of others.
As has been said repeatedly, cqc doesn't solve the issue.
Do you fly without a shield?
A lot of things are PvP and 'exciting' is wholly subjective.
Organic PvP always involves some element of uncertainty, some illusion or pretense of risk. CQC has no element of risk other than perhaps failing to find enough victims to unlock one's permit as rapidly as one might hope. Matches are often devoid of meaningful uncertainty as well, skewed so far in one direction or another as to make the outcome a foregone conclusion. Back when I was playing CQC semi-regularly, I could tell the outcome of almost every match I was in just by pressing tab and noting who was still around fifteen seconds in.
This was not an atypical CQC match:
That video is 41 minutes long and I was excited for a grand total of maybe one minute (mostly around that ten-minute mark) while recording it.
I'm excited the entire time I'm in the presence of potentially hostile CMDRs in Open.
Only when trading...because shields have an uneconomical cargo vs. protection trade off vs. hull-based defenses. I can cram more than 700 tons of cargo into a T-9 with 5k hull integrity, adequate module protection, and solid countermeasures...or I can barely manage 600 tons in one with token shielding that isn't actually any safer.
Wow.. reading posts on this thread really opens the eyes.
Yes your hiding from pvp if your in solo.
Yes crime & punishment sucks in elite & is the sole reason why ganking exists. No accountability for ones actions.
Yes there's no surviving a sustained attack from a murderboat unless your in a fully shielded g5 cutter with a considerably reduced cargo. Turn & fight rather than high wake, your toast.
The games imbalanced!
PvP is king! Nothing can counter it.
So we opt to avoid that pain in the proverbial by playing solo.
Let the hardliners who wanna pvp each other with murderboat vs murderboat own open only. Cos l for one will not risk losing a load to tickle someones jollies.
SC has this nailed. You get flagged as a pvper sooner or later you die. End up in jail. Its inevitable.
In elite as previously mentioned you don't.. you just go on and on killing with impunity.
Until the issues regarding the imbalanced pvp vs survivability are addressed cmdrs will opt for the easiest route. Solo.
I like pvp. Really l do. But it's broken.
Yes your hiding from pvp if your in solo.
Yes crime & punishment sucks in elite & is the sole reason why ganking exists. No accountability for ones actions.
Yes there's no surviving a sustained attack from a murderboat unless your in a fully shielded g5 cutter with a considerably reduced cargo. Turn & fight rather than high wake, your toast.
The games imbalanced!
PvP is king! Nothing can counter it.
So we opt to avoid that pain in the proverbial by playing solo.
Let the hardliners who wanna pvp each other with murderboat vs murderboat own open only. Cos l for one will not risk losing a load to tickle someones jollies.
SC has this nailed. You get flagged as a pvper sooner or later you die. End up in jail. Its inevitable.
In elite as previously mentioned you don't.. you just go on and on killing with impunity.
Until the issues regarding the imbalanced pvp vs survivability are addressed cmdrs will opt for the easiest route. Solo.
I like pvp. Really l do. But it's broken.
"Imagine playing a WWII war sim where no one's submarines were allowed to attack enemy shipping and the best way to wage war was to scrap one's armed forces and build nothing but transports and hire more Tokyo Roses....that's the de facto situation of conflict in Elite: Dangerous."
In Elite the player if sent to the rebuy screen respawns with a fresh ship. Unlikely for the attacking warship CMDR, very likely for the merchant CMDR. As has been pointed out, it is more efficient to kill enemy NPCs in quantity rather than CMDRs if the goal is to win rather than have fun for the winner and irritation for the loser.
Is some ways the Atlantic convoy battles were like filling buckets (e.g. undermining/reinforcing) and the results based on who had the bucket filled more. One side fills their bucket by producing u-boats and FW200 Condors. The other side fills their bucket by producing liberty ships, ASW escorts and mini carriers, very long range patrol aircraft, radar/asdic/sonar sets and rapid sinking depth charges/ hedgehog and squid launchers. Who gains the advantage then gets to fill the bucket. In WWII, the Allies were eventually filling their bucket so fast, the Germans gave up almost completely in mid 1943.
The situation in Elite is more akin to the surface raider situation in the central/south Atlantic and Indian Ocean. Powerful warships sailing up to defenceless or almost defenceless merchant ships and destroying or capturing them. It is no contest, the merchant is unable to get away or fight off the attacker. If the merchant survives long enough, security may turn up, usually not soon enough to prevent the merchant's destruction. The attacking warship is usually OP compared to the security, so can usually destroy them or run away as desired. Any damage can be repaired within minutes and back to the hunt. And they can be hundreds of light years distant from the engagement.
The surface raider in WWII has to be strong enough to defeat anything that can catch it, or fast enough to get away from anything that it perceives to be a threat. What Elite does not have is effective hunters to catch and destroy the raider. In WWII the British had groups of cruisers fast enough to catch and overwhelm most surface raiders along with battlecruisers (fast and deadly). The surface raider, unlike in Elite, faces real consequences and likely only a single voyage. Think Graf Spee. A good run of sinking merchant ships, but eventually met one of the groups hunting it. Damaged, it ended the action by putting into a neutral port and was able to make limited repairs. Although capable of fighting again, iirc the damage to critical pieces of the ship's machinery (the oil purification plant, desalination plant and galley), meant that it was going nowhere even if it did win. In Elite terms, the self destruct button was then pressed instead, although in game repairs are immediate if the credits are available.
In Elite the player if sent to the rebuy screen respawns with a fresh ship. Unlikely for the attacking warship CMDR, very likely for the merchant CMDR. As has been pointed out, it is more efficient to kill enemy NPCs in quantity rather than CMDRs if the goal is to win rather than have fun for the winner and irritation for the loser.
Is some ways the Atlantic convoy battles were like filling buckets (e.g. undermining/reinforcing) and the results based on who had the bucket filled more. One side fills their bucket by producing u-boats and FW200 Condors. The other side fills their bucket by producing liberty ships, ASW escorts and mini carriers, very long range patrol aircraft, radar/asdic/sonar sets and rapid sinking depth charges/ hedgehog and squid launchers. Who gains the advantage then gets to fill the bucket. In WWII, the Allies were eventually filling their bucket so fast, the Germans gave up almost completely in mid 1943.
The situation in Elite is more akin to the surface raider situation in the central/south Atlantic and Indian Ocean. Powerful warships sailing up to defenceless or almost defenceless merchant ships and destroying or capturing them. It is no contest, the merchant is unable to get away or fight off the attacker. If the merchant survives long enough, security may turn up, usually not soon enough to prevent the merchant's destruction. The attacking warship is usually OP compared to the security, so can usually destroy them or run away as desired. Any damage can be repaired within minutes and back to the hunt. And they can be hundreds of light years distant from the engagement.
The surface raider in WWII has to be strong enough to defeat anything that can catch it, or fast enough to get away from anything that it perceives to be a threat. What Elite does not have is effective hunters to catch and destroy the raider. In WWII the British had groups of cruisers fast enough to catch and overwhelm most surface raiders along with battlecruisers (fast and deadly). The surface raider, unlike in Elite, faces real consequences and likely only a single voyage. Think Graf Spee. A good run of sinking merchant ships, but eventually met one of the groups hunting it. Damaged, it ended the action by putting into a neutral port and was able to make limited repairs. Although capable of fighting again, iirc the damage to critical pieces of the ship's machinery (the oil purification plant, desalination plant and galley), meant that it was going nowhere even if it did win. In Elite terms, the self destruct button was then pressed instead, although in game repairs are immediate if the credits are available.
It really doesn't... People who talk about CQC as an alternative to main game PvP fundamentally do not understand why players enjoy organic, open world PvP gameplay.
If CQC was designed properly and was more inline with main game PvP scenarios, it would be for practice, organised fights and tournaments. I'd personally like to see that, but it would never replace main game pvp.
Why because you say so? How arrogant.
See? This works both ways. Using the term "hiding" implies some form of fear. I am not afraid of other players. I am simply not interested. I have limited time and opportunity to play the game, and I am not going to waste it on another player's power fantasy. Looking at the activities Power Play in its current iteration offers makes it very clear it is predominantly a PvE activity. It's simply not up to you or anyone to redefine this.
There's a difference between "hiding" and "not being interestied in PvP". You can be not interested in PvP and still be interested in Power Play. Because it's largely PvE. Overwhelmingly so.