Maybe, typically they are not interested in duking it out while I'm with my Cutter, my exploration build Krait is wholly another thing....btw it does not even have a cargo rack
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Incorrect, the mission success would be the objective, not necessarily the kill in this scenario.
Also, if they respond to an enemy incursion in a paper-thin hauler then that's on them...
Well is waiting down mission counter to run to zero exactly fun either? When thinking about hunters perspective? Basically you'd have best luck camping near final destination system.
Or from hunted perspective running repeat interdiction gauntlet, high wake, high wake again and so on, is it exactly fun? Who would take such missions? Some masochists?
I've been saying this for 10 years.
As has been mentioned time and time again, the game is far too large for this so-called "organic PvP" to happen regularly, as we are too spread out.
So either they make a PG and within their own rules stick to a small area, or better still, go to CQC / Arena for their PvP fix - it's why it was added.
The majority of arguments in the game are linked to Open Mode, and a minority of players who want more targets in that mode.
Those in PG's and Solo are quite content playing the game. So, taking Open Mode away resolves the problem.
The game isn't too large for organic PvP to happen regularly because much of the game is concentrated into a very tiny fraction of the available play area. It's a more extreme take on the Pareto principle...outside of exploration, over 99.9% of the game takes place in under 0.01% of systems. CGs, rare systems, conflict zones in high traffic areas, Engineer bases and mining hotspots are where the overwhelming majority of organic encounters take place.
Over the first several years of the game, my CMDR was averaging at least one organic PvP encounter per hour. This can be extrapolated from his CMDR kills*, which were predominantly in self-defense or CZs in Open (almost all of my pitched PvP, wing or otherwise, combat comes from the various beta tests, as such tests are implicitly OOC and I don't play as part of any formal group on live, nor do I play a ganker), as kills occur in only a small fraction of discrete engagements.
*From the 10th anniversary e-mail: 602 PVP ships destroyed, at least five-hundred of those prior to 2019, with at least ten engagements required per kill, on average (most self-defense and even CZ encounters are against other combat vessels where all sides are usually willing to run if they don't think they are going to bag a kill). And you can tell I'm not an organized PvPer on live because the the same CMDR has 28 total 'deaths' (most of which aren't from combat of any kind...mostly a mix of SRVs getting stuck [which used to be listed as insurance claims], bugs, and various tests that could not be conducted in a beta) and the only way to 'survive' most organized PvP engagements is to be the last one standing...and I am no where near that good.
The frequency of organic encounters has certainly declined over the years, but when my CMDR is in the bubble and not going out of his way to avoid other CMDRs, they're still far from uncommon.
Anyway, the idea that the game is too big for organic PvP is as silly as the idea that warfare never happened on Earth before the population explosion caused by the second and third agricultural revolutions.
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Particularly when activities such as PP or CG's compress the playerbase into even smaller regions
Logically the answer would be a PvP/Open Only server seperate from the shared galaxy in much the same way as Legacy.There seems to be two (at least) concurrent threads here:-
1. Advocacy for a proper PvE mode, with the extreme position to be a removal of PvP in its entirety
2. Improved PvP (such as PP missions etc), with a similar extreme position of the removal of Solo or PG (with a slightly lesser version of keeping those modes but for them to have less influence on the BGS or PP)
If our assumption is that there should be some sort of risk/reward system in place...
...then there's no in game bonus to PvP as it stands, all activities pose less risk or are more efficient if they're conducted in Solo/PG - even in Open the risk is determined by instancing, timezones and with the size of the galaxy, simply finding other players to add that risk.
Is there a compromise to be found between the two groups?
(Notwithstanding that whatever we suggest is unlikely to ever be implemented
That way both the Solo/PG players and the Open Only groups keep their gameplay and the only thing they loose is each other, given that neither seems to want to play with the other group...
As to whether there would be enough support for such a mode, only Fdev knows...
Yet we still get the same subset of people coming on the forums complaining about the people doing those events in Solo or PG's.
With the same old "we don't see anyone at the event" complaints.
Sorry, folks, but you cannot have it both ways.
Either there are people around for your "organic PvP", or there aren't people around - please pick one.
You're conflating two things here.
The point that I (and Morbad) was making is that the game, while vast in scale, compresses players into smaller areas for such events.
The other thing (the usage of solo/pgs to avoid confrontation) is a very different talking point from the one Morbad raised: which is that your assertion that the game is 'too big' for organic pvp is incorrect.
It's been floated a few times in the past in these discussions, and when it has generally positively recieved with only minor issues (such as what becomes the 'canon' server in terms of lore/plot progression) being needed to be resolved.
So even though PP "compresses players into a small area" (as you say), people still cannot find PvP, according to this PvP'er.
It's you lot who are mixing your arguments, not me.
It's been over 10 years, and the message still hasn't sunk in, so I'll say it again...
The game is PvP-enabled - it is not a PvP game
There is a difference. If all you want is PvP, you're in the wrong game.
Some points addressed recently which could be used to improve PP2 for PvP.
1) Its acknowledged that the play area is so large, PvPers only really get a change at certain core places, like CG events, SD, Deciat, etc. My own experience of playing in Open is that I rarely see another player in my stretch of the woods and they are never looking for PvP. Most don't even respond to an o7.
2) There are plenty of people in Open. FD have said it is by far the most popular mode. So its not like there is a lack of targets overall.
Perhaps the solution to PP is rather than conflict points happening anywhere in PP systems, each week a few special systems (one per border with another power) are flagged which are "vulnerable" where extra efforts are required to shore up defenses or to push a flip of the system.
Even if a lot of people are doing PP in PG/solo, it gives the PvPs on all sides a reason to congregate and blow each other up to their hearts content. Its not like PvP moves PP buckets much anyway, and there are probably still some people who choose to do PP missions and haul in Open anyway.
1) Its acknowledged that the play area is so large, PvPers only really get a change at certain core places, like CG events, SD, Deciat, etc. My own experience of playing in Open is that I rarely see another player in my stretch of the woods and they are never looking for PvP. Most don't even respond to an o7.
2) There are plenty of people in Open. FD have said it is by far the most popular mode. So its not like there is a lack of targets overall.
Perhaps the solution to PP is rather than conflict points happening anywhere in PP systems, each week a few special systems (one per border with another power) are flagged which are "vulnerable" where extra efforts are required to shore up defenses or to push a flip of the system.
Even if a lot of people are doing PP in PG/solo, it gives the PvPs on all sides a reason to congregate and blow each other up to their hearts content. Its not like PvP moves PP buckets much anyway, and there are probably still some people who choose to do PP missions and haul in Open anyway.
As always, you're diluting the point in question and twisting your original point regarding the scale of the game, and that it is 'too big' for organic PvP, as thats a very different talking point, which I will highlight again: The reason you can't find PvP in these compressed spaces is due to the flexibility of the modes system.
This is why, as mentioned several times by people not including myself, in the early days of powerplay, there was a vibrant, active dynamic/organic PvP environment built up around whichever PP systems were contested that week, where you got the kind of activity to which Lateralus refers, before the slow transition to Solo/PG as the preferred min-max meta for CGs or PP.
Simple thing, only pure combat players can fly optimised purposebuilt ships. Every other player need to sacrifice primary capability of their ships to accommodate PVP needs just to make some survival and escape possible. Be it jump range, cargo capacity and so on.
So if you hate gimping your ship to provide "content" for people who basically need others for their content, well you do not play in Open.
It seems fair... pure combat ships can't do much else than combat, picking up some halfway builds allows a CMDR do pursue different tasks.
Pure trading, pure exploration ships are of course on the other edge... there's no win/win there.
Well, it works both ways.
Others do not need other players as their content. Co-op and such is just added bonus.
And how do you know that?
I mean, who are the others ...it's always funny to read posts made by someone on behalf of an unknown reference.
May be there are some others who'd like to have some challenge in escaping from a murder boat, or encounter a pirate, or... [ok I can add here like one hundreds of more examples but these are not needed].
I wouldn't exclude all the possibilites... many years have elapsed since this game is out.
Challenge is basically non existent unless you do and try something intentionally stupid. Like: "okay I try that in paper ship."
Otherwise it is just annoying serial interdiction. Maybe someones like THAT.