"The path of least resistance"
- Thread starter jabokai
- Start date
Okay, so the conversation has gone from general to specifics but hey ho, that'll be my fault for using specific examples! 
As I posted on the Open Design Discussion -
"I can see Dan and Mike's points about immersion, but I suspect from the few posts here that it just works differently for different people. I don't feel more immersed in Hawken because of the cockpit, I feel less so - I am much more aware that I'm looking at a computer screen, rather than through it. My monitor is usually my window to these imaginary worlds, but it's like I'm seeing the window frame and it actually spoils the immersion!"
Basically, MY experience and immersion will be less with a cockpit view. A HUD only view is, to me, a better experience and more immersive. I'm still willing to give the cockpit view a go though but I suspect I'll be commenting on it during Alpha/Beta!
As I posted on the Open Design Discussion -
"I can see Dan and Mike's points about immersion, but I suspect from the few posts here that it just works differently for different people. I don't feel more immersed in Hawken because of the cockpit, I feel less so - I am much more aware that I'm looking at a computer screen, rather than through it. My monitor is usually my window to these imaginary worlds, but it's like I'm seeing the window frame and it actually spoils the immersion!"
Basically, MY experience and immersion will be less with a cockpit view. A HUD only view is, to me, a better experience and more immersive. I'm still willing to give the cockpit view a go though but I suspect I'll be commenting on it during Alpha/Beta!
Here's a couple of path of least resistance issues I encountered recently. In DiRT 3, there's no penalty for crashing into opponent vehicles, so one technique to get ahead is to use 'collision braking'. Basically you brake later than you would to take a corner ordinarily, and bump into another car to slow you down, often knocking them out of the running at the same time*. Sometimes when I just want to win a race, I find myself doing that, despite knowing that it's 'cheating'.
Compare that to F1 2012, where you tend to get penalised for collisions, and all of a sudden I'm a saint again. The path of least resistance problem in F1 2012 is that you can restart a race as many times as you like, and the AI is reasonably sensible about avoiding crashes during the opening lap. You can basically gain 5-10 places just by diving past everyone in the first 3 or 4 corners. If you crash and get a penalty you restart and try again until you find yourself settled in a decent position.
I'm still guilty of this, despite the fact that I turn off all the driving aids, and race from cockpit view.
*Single-player, just to be clear. I wouldn't dream of doing that in multi-player. Probably.
Compare that to F1 2012, where you tend to get penalised for collisions, and all of a sudden I'm a saint again. The path of least resistance problem in F1 2012 is that you can restart a race as many times as you like, and the AI is reasonably sensible about avoiding crashes during the opening lap. You can basically gain 5-10 places just by diving past everyone in the first 3 or 4 corners. If you crash and get a penalty you restart and try again until you find yourself settled in a decent position.
I'm still guilty of this, despite the fact that I turn off all the driving aids, and race from cockpit view.
*Single-player, just to be clear. I wouldn't dream of doing that in multi-player. Probably.
That sound pretty realistic for certain types of rally racing
It's only cheating if no one else can do it to you.
I do that as a matter of course some times. I keep getting knocked off the track by AI controlled cars in the game I am playing and it has become incredibly annoying.
If the game lets you do it then in my book that is fine. Placing a self imposed restriction on yourself should not be a requirement IMO.
Now modding or altering the game to get an advantage over other players is another thing. That is cheating yourself at the end of the day because the game becomes less rewarding.
If the game lets you do it then in my book that is fine. Placing a self imposed restriction on yourself should not be a requirement IMO.
Now modding or altering the game to get an advantage over other players is another thing. That is cheating yourself at the end of the day because the game becomes less rewarding.
In multiplayer space, everyone can hear you scream...
I'm really not sure I see the problem- space is big and dangerous. If you want to go into space, you have to expect that there will be bad guys out there, NPC or actual players, cheating and all. Should make no odds, since the very first Elite was pretty darn hard and if I went to the wrong system, it was impossible. Is there a ranking table where I can compare my progress against other players? Even if there is, am I going to care about that, or just play the game for the experience and nostalgia?
As long as I can go off and do my own thing and find a level of gameplay where I'm not blown apart every time I leave a space station, I can be pretty much satisfied. All I want is to make it as hard, or as easy as I want on my own path and everyone else can do the same. Eventually, human nature will take care of the risk factors. Protected core systems where we can run home to momma will be more than sufficient to let me buy some big guns, then I might go and seek some adventure, or vengence...
I'm really not sure I see the problem- space is big and dangerous. If you want to go into space, you have to expect that there will be bad guys out there, NPC or actual players, cheating and all. Should make no odds, since the very first Elite was pretty darn hard and if I went to the wrong system, it was impossible. Is there a ranking table where I can compare my progress against other players? Even if there is, am I going to care about that, or just play the game for the experience and nostalgia?
As long as I can go off and do my own thing and find a level of gameplay where I'm not blown apart every time I leave a space station, I can be pretty much satisfied. All I want is to make it as hard, or as easy as I want on my own path and everyone else can do the same. Eventually, human nature will take care of the risk factors. Protected core systems where we can run home to momma will be more than sufficient to let me buy some big guns, then I might go and seek some adventure, or vengence...
Software Assurance, or Something Awful?
SA?
You SA, as in USA?
This is a pun, a sarcastic play upon words? Of this I am not sure, so I shall make an assumption and believe that this is funny, although I don't entirely understand why, yet.
Perhaps it is a subtle amusement with my naïveté of expectation, or an affirmation of my own laughter in the face of impending doom, but regardless, it causes me to ponder, and then I wonder if it's just another acronym that I have yet to discover.
You SA guys are hilarious, keep it up.
SA?
You SA, as in USA?
This is a pun, a sarcastic play upon words? Of this I am not sure, so I shall make an assumption and believe that this is funny, although I don't entirely understand why, yet.
Perhaps it is a subtle amusement with my naïveté of expectation, or an affirmation of my own laughter in the face of impending doom, but regardless, it causes me to ponder, and then I wonder if it's just another acronym that I have yet to discover.
when will the aggressive paranoia ever stop. Do you really need to make more drama, you´ve already been awarded the core audience medal with the grouping concept, what else is missing?
Look, this isn´t going to be a sandbox anway, sandbox MMOs need to be player driven, driven by necessary player conflict, even territory control, we have none of that confirmed/denied yet. It looks very much NPC driven, therefore rather on the WoW side of things. Calm down.
It´s an Online. Multiplayer. GAME. With pirates and bounty hunters and ships that go pew-pew, what would you expect to happen?
Wouldn´t drive me away
I´ve played MMOs long enough and experienced the dumbing down of the whole genre and the downfall of the themepark "please everyone" model. It´s destined to fail and sadly, people like you caused it. Devs will learn, some day, hopefully not too far away.
I wonder, I wonder.. how come radical PvE-only players know sooooo much about gankers and griefers? I tell you, I don´t believe you ever played ANY title offering the slightest possibility of being "ganked". It´s all hyperbole and made up horror fantasy supporting your agenda plus some urban myth you read about EVE. You obviously know nothing and the whole purpose is fear mongering.
In case you ever played EvE tell me about it. How did you start, which skill progression did you take, which ships did you own, which upgrades, how did you mine, which corporation did you join, how many ISK did you make before you got your ganking trauma?
Last edited:
Tiwaz said:
For the record, I've never been into PvP in the MMO's I've played. In UO I was a crafter, in Eve an explorer in the early years, then a manufacturer, and in Wow it was all PvE for me - but I recognise the need for risks and rewards in multiplayer environments. I recognise how dull and bland games get once the limited artificial risk of scripted AI's is learned and overcome and that only human interaction gives games real emotional content (speaking from a personal point of view of course). But its all moot anyway. Anyone wanting a risk free game from other human players will have 400 billion destinations to chose from, and if that isn't safe enough for you you have a soloplay option in ED too.
Last edited:
Ahh, peevypy vee peevyee, the gift that just keeps giving
Isn't there another thread for that somewhere? Everywhere... Eating at my sanity.
Is it always the same people that go on about it??? :S
My word, give it a break.
Pretty much
Hmmm let´s see how to solve this extremely difficult problem...
1. Make 200 billion systems out of the 400 billion systems forced All Group
2. Put higher rewards there, more "dangerous" places, better ressources to mine, an overall +20% credits gain
3. Lock offline/single player credits and ships to offline mode
4. Problem solved
1. Make 200 billion systems out of the 400 billion systems forced All Group
2. Put higher rewards there, more "dangerous" places, better ressources to mine, an overall +20% credits gain
3. Lock offline/single player credits and ships to offline mode
4. Problem solved
When people won't stop arguing with each other online, I like to imagine they just can't bring themselves to admit their true feelings. All the "you're so annoying!"/"why am I even still talking to you?" makes a lot more sense that way.
Well as tough as the preceding games at least. I don't want to be punished for chosing to not let other people disturb my enjoyment of Elite: Dangerous!
I would hope for some difficulty level choices in game, and that Ironman mode option as well?
I'm trying to fully understand some of the other points bought up here, the path of least resistance stuff etc, because from my perspective most modern game design follows the path of least resistance by making games that are very easy to finish, hand-hold the player (while assuming they are a 6 year old) and provide no lasting challenge outside of MP death-matches? So i might be missing something here in relation to E: D?
I hope we are going to keep separate game screens for the various HUD/GUI options, and not just have it all crammed into one screen (for normal non power users, the three monitor guys are the minority i suspect!)?
Switching between ships screens (F2 - Galaxy Map, F3 - trade screen etc) is certainly not as immersion breaking as having a MP encounter where pilot DubzKickin keeps spamming my message log with questions about if i like Dizzy Rascal or not? (which i do btw!).
So i would (from a design/gameplay point of view) see this as an issue not needing 'fixing' by cramming it all on the pilot HUD and giving a big advantage to the few that can stretch all that info over three monitors.
Last edited:
