The Planetary landing and planetside missions discussion Thread

[Aria Darabi]

Planetary Landings

Does anyone know when they'll release this feature? I'm enjoying the game but I think this dynamic would give it a whole new dimension. Imagine landing on a planet to take out a bounty hidden in a little shack somewhere.

-SL

 

[rightsideupsidedown]

I'm not sure but they are putting in more ships that look to deal with population/passengers. I think it would be really cool if we could go in the stations and if transporting populations would be another form of trading. The kickstarter states "The initial release of Elite: Dangerous doesn't mark the end of development. We intend to continue expanding the game both with new content and new features. A good example of this is planetary landings. We have an ambitious goal for landings to include new gameplay and a rich variety of worlds to explore. To achieve our goal we want the planets to come to life. We also want to add leaving the ships so you can explore space stations or board enemy vessels or even just to look around your own."

What's available right now is fun but I think it only scratches the surface of what the developers want to make happen. They play the game too so I'm sure they will be looking to do more. I would like to see other professions like detective, search and rescue, mechanic, etc. Perhaps we can build our own docking station and set it into orbit, hire/maintain a wing to defend it when we're not there, have some other things to spend credits on. I'm not sure where they are headed when people are making 500,000 to 2 million credits an hour but I'm sure there will be something to spend it on or an adjustment to the economy.

 

[MissMeYet]

Space Transport in the Future and the Ability to Land on Planetary Surfaces

In Elite Dangerous, products are produced on the surface of planets [mostly] then transported to the stations. Our spaceships then go to the stations, pick up products and deliver them to other stations, where they are presumably then transported down to the destination planet. This makes sense; in our world products are brought to intermodal terminals where they're then loaded onto various transports (trucks, rail, ships, etc) for delivery to other intermodal terminals. This raises a few questions (for me at least):

1. How are the products getting from the surface to the stations? It's the year 3301; my guess is some sort of space elevator. It's economical and it could actually be a "thing" by 2050 "http://www.cnet.com/news/japanese-company-plans-space-elevator-by-2050/".

2. If that's the case, and even if it isn't, why would our Elite transport ships need to land on the surface of a planet? There's already a way to get the products to space and back down. Plus, if you were the resident of a planet would you want all these crazy transport pilots from Gosh know's where flying in your pristene atmosphere spewing their filthy exhaust, and maybe crashing into your cities?

3. This leads me to think that when/if planetary landings are introduced to Elite Dangerous, it will be for special ops or similar action, not cargo transport.

Cheers

Oh, and this bugs me:

Accepting a kill mission while at a STATION, then getting an alternate mission once you're in space, and THEN once you've completed it having to go to an OUTPOST that an Anaconda can't land at TO CLAIM THE BOUNTY!!! That means getting a cheapo Sidewinder just to claim a 30K bounty.

Man that grinds my gears.

 

[SAB380]

At Kickstarter they initially said it would be around 1 year after launch that planetary landings would be available.

Now the original date for Elite during that Kickstarter was March 2014 ....they launched prematurely at Dec 2014 ...and in March 2015 with 1.2 we really have a multiplayer online Elite.

So I'd say we should probably add at least a year to their inital estimate. Late 2016 maybe?

 

[crua9]

I don't see this happening any time soon. I think we would see walking around in the ship and stations before this happens (mostly because this is a given).

BTW, I'm disappointed in the lack of open conversation in the devs with players. Maybe they can fix that before both of these things happen so they can get the proper feedback to start with.

 

[Maidrus K]

I personally want us to be able to walk around in our ships before we get to planetary landings. Both features are a very exciting prospect for me and will help immerse me into the experience.

I want to be able to go to my sleeping quarters before logging off for the night!

 

[Zephyriel]

Before the ability to land on planets, atmospheric flight might come first, it is already a big amount of work. There is also walking inside ships and on stations, and I'm not sire in which order they will come. But I'm equally interested in all those expansions, so I really don't care which one comes first.

 

[NeilF]

Does anyone know when they'll release this feature? I'm enjoying the game but I think this dynamic would give it a whole new dimension. Imagine landing on a planet to take out a bounty hidden in a little shack somewhere.

-SL

TBH, content & depth are spread thin enough between the stars, yet alone down on planetary surfaces. When there's enough depth and interesting stuff to do up in space, then let's start worrying about doing stuff down on the planets.

 

[ChrisT]

From what I recall, the order they originally said they would tackle things in was....


* Planetary Landings
* Extra ship activity (walking around ship, leaving it).


As far as Planetary landings go, at the launch event DB said, words to effect of, atmospheric landings will come later. They will first tackle planets with no atmosphere as these cut a lot of faff that is wrapped up in the whole task. Lets call these planets "Airless Moons" for ease

Airless Moons - have no, or little atmosphere, so 3D clouds are not required, as is an atmosphere based flight model.
Airless Moons - have no plant or animal life
Airless Moons - have very little life at all, just moon bases that are hard surface structures, or, sub surface

Even for Airless Moons, you have to tackle these tasks, and this is just off the top of my head, bet the devs and producers have thought this all through in great depth....

* Gravity based flight model i.e. there IS a down and it makes a difference to flight
* Dynamic landscape modelling i.e. LOD based landscape, more geo in local area, less over distance
* Modelling of various planet types i.e. rocky, magma, ice, sulphurous etc.
* Assets for Human bases i.e. civilian, mining, naval, pirate etc
* Roads and other transport assets
* Land transport i.e. trains, cars, trucks etc

Given the work, Id say at least six months until they start showing dev images (if good enough of course)

and at least a year before anything would be playable, probably even in Alpha form. Its very complex.

Having said that, based on the usual commercial launch periods, you would expect something released for this approaching Christmas hols, and then again for next Easter maybe?

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Actually i would want to have the ship activities before the planetary landing stuff.
Planetary Landing and flight would be pretty boring if you could not walk around there, they would be just another type of station then.

 

[NeilF]

Actually i would want to have the ship activities before the planetary landing stuff.
Planetary Landing and flight would be pretty boring if you could not walk around there, they would be just another type of station then.

Sounds boring to me being able to just walk around TBH; Unless there is something worthwhile to actually do, I don't see the point in adding 1st person or planetary landings. The gameplay we have now is verging on being too shallow TBH and I'd rather not see this approach taken if/when introducing first person and/or planetary landings.

 

[Cosmo]

Planetary Landing and flight would be pretty boring if you could not walk around there, they would be just another type of station then.

The planetary bases could have special commodities and alien goods that are only available on the surface. Dog fighting on alien planets will be different with atmospheric flight, mountains, craters and canyons. Exploring alien worlds up close is new too.

Walking around on planets, cities, ships, stations and FPS combat can be added after that expansion imo. Though it would be cool if they add some first person features with the first expansion.

 

[unite]

How are they ever going to pull this together and make it look like something. Consider earth which is obviously one of the places you'll want to fly over or walk around a city. Its going to be some job coding an entire planet worth of features. It was amazing in frontier elite 2 to land anywhere on a planet and view mountains etc. The cities in FE2 where a bit basic but there were obvious limitations to the hardware at the time. Nowadays however that won't wash and ppl are going to expect an accurate representation of earth with lavish cities to walk around. Most FPS games are based around a single city or region at most not a planet. Then take it a step further and consider the millions of planets to visit. We already know that the planets are heavily populated due to their stats and even the lights on the dark sides. What we don't want is to have say half a dozen planet designs to fly over or walk around. I think they barely get away with this on the space stations and I would first prefer to see new styles of stations introduced.

There is then the problem of how do you get to the surface. The current mechanics if you get too close limit your speed to 100km/s. It takes forever to accelerate past this and takes to long to get to the point where your not mass locked so you can jump. If your on the planets surface I would imagine a 10minute flight before you can jump. Not exactly appealing to me.

I forsee a system whereby a handfull of planets will have docking rings in orbit and use an automated shuttle system to take you to the plant thus limiting your ability to fly over landscapes / cities (less development work). Once landed you'll be stuck to a defined area to buy sell or whatever.

 

[ChrisT]

I cant see FP walkies coming along first. Truth is, we are all locked to our seats, in our ships. Planetary exploration / Landing, keeps that relationship intact. Its JUST that you can enter a new environment WHILST nailed to your seat.

Extra ship activity radically changes the game, now you are not nailed to your seat, you can walk around your ship, leave the ship, catch a train and head to a night club, go in, dance a bit, drink too much, get ill, be thrown out, have a Tribble kebab and go back to your Cobra on the night bus, only to find you are locked out of the Space Port

Joking aside. When you can leave your ship, your relationship to the environment could become exponentially more complex. Can you enter ANY building? What can you DO whilst out of your ship? It becomes something of a Grand Theft Auto scenario, EXCEPT well, thats nuts, it can be that open world. The game would require a £300 million budget.

Extra ship activity is in effect the "final frontier" for Frontier Dev.

* In 1984 they produced ELITE where you could fly around a galaxy

* In 1993 they released FRONTIER, a game where you could fly a ship around a MUCH more fully modelled Galaxy AND fly down onto and land on any planet (apart from gas giants of course)

* In 2014 they released Elite : Dangerous, again the Galaxy sim goes up in fidelity, as do the graphics, ships etc. But, no Planetary visits yet.


They have never to date, released a game in this series where you could actually leave your ship.

Don't under-estimate it as well, its a mammoth task, and you have to be clear before doing it, what it will bring to the game. i.e. work vs reward.


Me, I'm keeping my expectations low. I expect to see Planetary visits, landings, some time this year. How well advanced it would be, I don't have a firm expectation for that.

In the long run, maybe 2 or 3 years from now, I DO expect to be able to fly onto a Moon, land, leave my seat, get into a Rover leave the ship and drive into a near-by base. But thats all fantasy for now.

Maybe by then a decent Oculus Rift commercial release might really rock my world in combo with future ED

 

[ChrisT]

How are they ever going to pull this together and make it look like something. Consider earth which is obviously one of the places you'll want to fly over or walk around a city. Its going to be some job coding an entire planet worth of features. It was amazing in frontier elite 2 to land anywhere on a planet and view mountains etc. The cities in FE2 where a bit basic but there were obvious limitations to the hardware at the time. Nowadays however that won't wash and ppl are going to expect an accurate representation of earth with lavish cities to walk around. Most FPS games are based around a single city or region at most not a planet. Then take it a step further and consider the millions of planets to visit. We already know that the planets are heavily populated due to their stats and even the lights on the dark sides. What we don't want is to have say half a dozen planet designs to fly over or walk around. I think they barely get away with this on the space stations and I would first prefer to see new styles of stations introduced.

There is then the problem of how do you get to the surface. The current mechanics if you get too close limit your speed to 100km/s. It takes forever to accelerate past this and takes to long to get to the point where your not mass locked so you can jump. If your on the planets surface I would imagine a 10minute flight before you can jump. Not exactly appealing to me.

I forsee a system whereby a handfull of planets will have docking rings in orbit and use an automated shuttle system to take you to the plant thus limiting your ability to fly over landscapes / cities (less development work). Once landed you'll be stuck to a defined area to buy sell or whatever.

Good points. I was discussing this with a friend, I mean the issue of speed and how you get FROM orbit, onto land, and back again. A space shuttle can so 25,000km per hour, and as such it can get from space, to land in a decent time-frame. Ships in ED have an artificial upper speed limit in normal space. This means landing on a planet in normal space is a no go-er. For this reason, I think what might happen is that planetary approach is via auto-pilot only, and it will get your from space, in super-cruise, into the atmosphere at a decent altitude, where you take over "the stick"

I cant see many people wanting Planetary Landings if you can only do it in a Shuttle. Besides, then your stuck in a Shuttle, in a Space Port, and you cant leave it. So what does that achieve?

As we are stuck in normal time in ED, we will possibly NEED an auto-pilot to remove the time and complication of getting from a space to a planets surface in a matter of minutes.

Landing on a planet SHOULD be an under-taking, its not easy, neither is leaving.

Anyway, hopefully all of this will be thrashed out in the Design Decision Forum.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Basically, Planetary Landings would require the budget and timeframe for a completely new game.

No Man's Sky can procedurally generate any surfaces, plant and animal life... and that's good enough for extraterrestrial worlds... but how would you go about modelling Earth in the game?

You simply cannot handcraft a whole planet, let alone several of them! (Moon and Mars are cartographed pretty well already... the need for accuracy would be a problem)

Look at the budgets blown on open world games today... Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, GTA V, Dragon Age Inquisition...

The most they can give you and still fill with worthwhile content is a country, or several small countries.

A whole planet? No way.

I strongly advise everybody not to get their hopes up.

 

[unite]

Simple solution. Landing on planets in SOL system is strictly forbidden due to legacy pollution problems

Random generated surfaces will be the most likely way forward. Cities will be no fly zones so detail can be simple and there will be no or little need to animate people, vehicles etc.

Just mentioning animation before we land on the planets I would like to see animations of planets in particular all those jupiter clones with their currently static cloud systems.

 

[Cosmo]

Basically, Planetary Landings would require the budget and timeframe for a completely new game.

Some people made videos where they landed on planets in the alpha version. It's blurry without structures, plants or buildings though. The transition will be seamless like Space Engine with atmospheric flight.

[video=youtube;ugHjhLgiIfA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugHjhLgiIfA[/video]

No Man's Sky can procedurally generate any surfaces, plant and animal life... and that's good enough for extraterrestrial worlds... but how would you go about modelling Earth in the game? You simply cannot handcraft a whole planet, let alone several of them!

Earth in 3301 is a post-apocalyptic world. I think it'll have futuristic procedural generated cities. Initially we can probably fly over them and dock at specific areas. They'll add more features as development continues, such walk on the planet, visit bars, hangars at bases etc.

 

[Robbie]

As Cosmo has shown: I don't think cities on planets need to spread out across vast areas of land.

I can imagine future cityscapes in ED to not take up much land mass like today's cities do, perhaps in ED's future they'll be more in line with archology; structures that rise vertically (or deep into the ground) where the land area occupied is reduced to maintain an eco-friendly environment for the planet. These kinds of structures could easily hold millions of people, whether on Earth or other terra-formed worlds. Just have many hundreds of these super mega-structures populating each of these planets, but have them several thousands miles apart.

 

[unite]

What you are saying could be true but the developers have already pointed towards a traditional city type landscape with how they have shown artifical light sources on the dark sides of planets. Either way its not going to be a plantary GTA. The first incarnation will be the ability to somehow land at a star port much like they had in FE2, it'll just look better. The mechanics of how need to be worked out.

One idea I have is that only small ships can land on planets. The bigger star ships cannot land but must use a shuttle expansion. Would be cool to park your conda in orbit then use the captians yacht to travel to the surface.