There have been hints that it could be a planetary GTA - even Braben himself said imagine being able to transport passengers to a planet and then engage with them in their hunt for animals on the surface. I'm hoping for big things for planetary landings that far exceeds FE2.
The Planetary landing and planetside missions discussion Thread
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There have been hints that it could be a planetary GTA - even Braben himself said imagine being able to transport passengers to a planet and then engage with them in their hunt for animals on the surface. I'm hoping for big things for planetary landings that far exceeds FE2.
about earth , don't forget one thing xd .. the year is 3100 .. so they can easily decide that there is no more us, france , vegas .. ect ..
they can decide that earth became a primitive planet with very few little cities and very low population
if they use the procedural tech , they wont have problems at doing so , no man sky did .. they can
but my question is :
when they said "planetary landing .." does that mean some anim to land on the planet and just be able to fly around the station ?
or actually freedom to fly around the all planet and even get out the ship in the middle of no where
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In Frontier, you COULD fly anywhere on a planet, and land anywhere. That was about it though. You could not get out of your ship and take a wee, or have a BBQ or whatever.
Anyway, that used a procedurally generated landscape. And, for the time it was pretty amazing.
Dont take it as a given that David and his Team wont have a damn good punt at this. DB in 1988 or so release Zarch, he is on record as saying that was a test for a future planetary landings engine for Elite. In the end, this approach was not used, and it evolved into what we saw, some 5 years later in Frontier.
Cities in Frontier, were in domes as far as I recall. In todays incarnation, who knows.
Maybe Domes would be a good idea, they keep cities small and also isolate from the local ecology, if a city processes its own atmosphere, it would mean it would not "pollute" the atmosphere it is situation within.
Domed cities also might be very common on planets that have been terraformed, as again you can have a human breathable atmos within the dome whilst the terraforming is under-way.
It'll be very interesting to see what tech the Frontier team bring to bear. Will they be using voxels for the clouds? How will they tackle procedural generation in a timely manner of ALL elements you would see when in the atmosphere. Think rivers, cities, roads etc. All of this is missing when we look at planets from space right now.
Another idea. If we can enter atmosphere's, will some of our craft be also able to go under-water. Think Moray Starboat, and in ED we already have the Orca, which surely is an under-water craft
Anyway, that used a procedurally generated landscape. And, for the time it was pretty amazing.
Dont take it as a given that David and his Team wont have a damn good punt at this. DB in 1988 or so release Zarch, he is on record as saying that was a test for a future planetary landings engine for Elite. In the end, this approach was not used, and it evolved into what we saw, some 5 years later in Frontier.
Cities in Frontier, were in domes as far as I recall. In todays incarnation, who knows.
Maybe Domes would be a good idea, they keep cities small and also isolate from the local ecology, if a city processes its own atmosphere, it would mean it would not "pollute" the atmosphere it is situation within.
Domed cities also might be very common on planets that have been terraformed, as again you can have a human breathable atmos within the dome whilst the terraforming is under-way.
It'll be very interesting to see what tech the Frontier team bring to bear. Will they be using voxels for the clouds? How will they tackle procedural generation in a timely manner of ALL elements you would see when in the atmosphere. Think rivers, cities, roads etc. All of this is missing when we look at planets from space right now.
Another idea. If we can enter atmosphere's, will some of our craft be also able to go under-water. Think Moray Starboat, and in ED we already have the Orca, which surely is an under-water craft
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"The ability for pilots to land their ships on Planetary surfaces has led to worries from homeowners about careless pilots crushing their houses with their boosters. Consequently the Landing Permissions (inhabited planets) Act of 3215 strictly prohibits reentry and landing 'at will' on the surface on inhabited planets. Re-entry interface without landing permissions results now in authority ship interception and targeting from ground based particle cannon. Low level flying is restricted to the vicinity of the space port.
"Outside of inhabited space, pilots may land anywhere they feel is safe enough for their vehicle. Nevertheless, they must take account of gravity, atmospheric pressure and composition, as well as the stability of the surface and the local wildlife. Many a pilot visiting the head after landing has returned to his seat to find it being eaten by Viridian Slug Wings who are attracted to the alloy used in ship construction, weakening the hull integrity. Some do not even make it to the surface, being crushed by the atmospheric pressure like a discarded tin can. Some feel a Starbuck-like urge to fly in to the heart of a gas giant, only to sink inexorably lower and lower until it is too late to escape.
"Volcanic activity indicates useful places to mine expensive materials, but also risks the problem of landing on a unstable surface and breaking through into the lava below. Such pilots do not live to tell the tale, only their wing men after many hours of therapy can report the horror of planetary landings in unregulated and uninhabited space.
"All in all, planetary landings are not for the feint hearted."
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Fishing anyone?
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"The Galactic Health Organisation has denounced plans for Star Pilots to be allowed out of starports and into general population. The problem lies with cross contamination of bacteria and virus that can be common on other planets but would wipe out the population of another with no immunity.
"It may take another decade before those barriers come down. Maybe medical science can advance to make this no longer to be a problem in our day, but for now, pilots are restricted to airside."
"Outside of inhabited space, pilots may land anywhere they feel is safe enough for their vehicle. Nevertheless, they must take account of gravity, atmospheric pressure and composition, as well as the stability of the surface and the local wildlife. Many a pilot visiting the head after landing has returned to his seat to find it being eaten by Viridian Slug Wings who are attracted to the alloy used in ship construction, weakening the hull integrity. Some do not even make it to the surface, being crushed by the atmospheric pressure like a discarded tin can. Some feel a Starbuck-like urge to fly in to the heart of a gas giant, only to sink inexorably lower and lower until it is too late to escape.
"Volcanic activity indicates useful places to mine expensive materials, but also risks the problem of landing on a unstable surface and breaking through into the lava below. Such pilots do not live to tell the tale, only their wing men after many hours of therapy can report the horror of planetary landings in unregulated and uninhabited space.
"All in all, planetary landings are not for the feint hearted."
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<snip>
Another idea. If we can enter atmosphere's, will some of our craft be also able to go under-water. Think Moray Starboat, and in ED we already have the Orca, which surely is an under-water craft
Fishing anyone?
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"The Galactic Health Organisation has denounced plans for Star Pilots to be allowed out of starports and into general population. The problem lies with cross contamination of bacteria and virus that can be common on other planets but would wipe out the population of another with no immunity.
"It may take another decade before those barriers come down. Maybe medical science can advance to make this no longer to be a problem in our day, but for now, pilots are restricted to airside."
Procedurally generated cityscapes are not a problem. However, players should not expect a GTA IV level of fidelity in those cities. I imagine they will be just cityscapes you will be able to fly near, but not much in them, except for the starport area where you land and do your business. So you could see Earth cities from up close, admire the futuristic architecture etc. But not land and go shopping for shirts before you visit a night club.
I can envisage open terrain gameplay, however, which is much easier to do.
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
Have you been to Earth in the game? Take a look at it from the night side.
Some people think they have shot themselves in the foot with that. All they really need to do is add exclusion zones. Think that Space Station pad incursions were bad? Wait until you see the guns they have waiting planetside!!!
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Agree with this. When MS wrote their last Flight Simulator they created an engine that auto-generated based on a tile approach. You random seed that tile, with certain areas like earth with a seed that causes the generation to match roughly with what might be there in a 1000 years time and Bob's your uncle.
Of course, they might have already done this and that could be why we have the lights...
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I'd just be happy if planetary landings was just like Frontier but with better graphics.
I think DB had stated this is more or less how it would be appraoched to start with. Landing on rocky. airless planets without any atmosphere, then gradually scale up the effects. Really hope Frontier have some nice cookies to show us sometime in the year
So I know this isn't a popular idea but I really don't think it follows to have the planet-side interaction be as deep as most of you are suggesting. Rather I think planet-side interactions should serve as a supplement to the space side of the game. After all, space operations are the focus of the game.
Planets with docking ports should see the most action as they'll give you access to more missions and possibly some services not available from space-stations.*
As far as uninhabited/lifeless planets go... You should be able to explore those but I think the emphasis (at least initially) should be on flight. So perhaps a mission will lead you to a specific point on a planet to wipe out some rebel intelligence relay station or something. Mining could come later but I'd sooner see mining related NPC missions** than having the player actually perform the mining by hand.
Of course, it follows to allow the player to stretch their legs planet-side if we're allowed to do so in stations. So any civilized landing zone should allow a limited space to explore and interact with NPCs. If direct NPC interaction is going to be a thing, I strongly suggest the use of voice-acting if at all possible.***
*Extended black-market services, component and cargo storage, etc.
**One instance I picture is dropping off a team of miners for part of a mission, giving the player payment up front as well as a dividend of any resources they find after X amount of time
***The most efficient way to do this is to have numerous voices for the NPCs that address the player asking them if they want a job, the player indicates yes or no and then the NPC informs them that they've sent them a proposal via comms. Maybe add some flavor statements for major factions and that's it. Done.
Planets with docking ports should see the most action as they'll give you access to more missions and possibly some services not available from space-stations.*
As far as uninhabited/lifeless planets go... You should be able to explore those but I think the emphasis (at least initially) should be on flight. So perhaps a mission will lead you to a specific point on a planet to wipe out some rebel intelligence relay station or something. Mining could come later but I'd sooner see mining related NPC missions** than having the player actually perform the mining by hand.
Of course, it follows to allow the player to stretch their legs planet-side if we're allowed to do so in stations. So any civilized landing zone should allow a limited space to explore and interact with NPCs. If direct NPC interaction is going to be a thing, I strongly suggest the use of voice-acting if at all possible.***
*Extended black-market services, component and cargo storage, etc.
**One instance I picture is dropping off a team of miners for part of a mission, giving the player payment up front as well as a dividend of any resources they find after X amount of time
***The most efficient way to do this is to have numerous voices for the NPCs that address the player asking them if they want a job, the player indicates yes or no and then the NPC informs them that they've sent them a proposal via comms. Maybe add some flavor statements for major factions and that's it. Done.
Ah but you forget the MB4 mining machines. Well, no I see you didn't. But the basics of what was in FFE should only be the start.
I want my Moray Starboat and I want to go fishing!
I want my Moray Starboat and I want to go fishing!
Space Trucker
Banned
Would have been more than happy with graphics half of what they are if we could have had completely seamless transitions. I also suspect that multiplayer plays a big role in why we have instancing. Still, I think things will be pretty epic when we can finally walk around in avatars and land on planets.
I would suspect that they would use a similar transition system to that of the FSD jump (as well as to send you the planetary information), and explain it by saying it is the atmospheric braking.
It would be interesting if they added some dedicated air to ground munitions for our ships, e.g. Precision guided bombs, various air to ground missiles etc.
Also missions to go along with them, e.g. one group's ground troops vs another needing close air support, destroying an enemy group's factories, bunkers etc.
These missions would most likely appear in the same way as conflict zones do now - where one group goes into a civil war with another.
Also missions to go along with them, e.g. one group's ground troops vs another needing close air support, destroying an enemy group's factories, bunkers etc.
These missions would most likely appear in the same way as conflict zones do now - where one group goes into a civil war with another.
For inhabited worlds it's entirely reasonable, indeed even sensible from an in-universe perspective, to have ships limited by law to specific flight paths leading to the vicinity of designated starports, with strict enforcement via planetary-defense-grid particle cannons if anyone deviates.
Warning, wall of text incoming!
Planetside gameplay is probably a long way away, and it's still very early to talk about it, but many are already discussing the subject on the forums. So why not share our views on the matter in a dedicated topic, and maybe give the developpers a few ideas in the process ? While they probably already have a pretty clear idea of where they're headed, chances are they haven't yet decided on a detailed game design, so I guess it's as good a time as any to start discussing it
So I'll start with the way I imagine planetary landings could be, taking into account technical limitations and the ideas' doability.
- Landing on lifeless planets (with or without an atmosphere) :
I imagine you could approach these planets in free flight, and would be able to fly around them as close to the ground as you want and land on any flat terrain you would find.
Once you'd touch down, I imagine something pretty close to what the first Mass Effect did with uncharted worlds. You'd have a buggy and could drive it around, except this time the playable area wouldn't be limited in size, it would be the entire planet. Each player or group of players would have their own instance upon approaching the planet, to avoid getting shot down by a other player in their ship.
Regarding interactions and things to do, you could have a scanner that would lead you to potential resources sites. On your way, you could come across the planetside equivalent of unidentified signal sources : random events such as ship or drone wreckages, traces of lifeforms you could analyze, pirate ambushes... Also, some mission objective you'd have gotten on a space station could require you to explore a certain area of a planet to find a resource, retrieve or salvage parts of a downed ship...
Gameplay wise, you and your buggy could have a jetpack to insure you wouldn't get stuck in a crevice.
- Planets with atmosphere and life :
The ideas above could be applied, with the added possibility of analyzing new types of plants and creatures, and fighting or hunting hostile creatures.
- Early civilizations planets :
Assuming those exist in the Elite universe, it's probably not possible to render them in a believable way, with all the variety and the interactions it would require ; maybe galactic law would simply prevent you from interfering with young civilizations...
- Small planetary colonies :
I imagine those the way I described planets with atmosphere and life, with the addition of outposts. Like those in space, these would be small stations where you could land and trade. You could land far from the outpost and explore the planet if you chose to, but landing on the pad would give you access to the usual services.
It could possibly be a place to loan a bigger land vehicle, and to take some planetside missions : hunting a certain creature, rescuing someone, finding a specific plant or resource. Mission types could vary depending on the type of oupost : scientific research, military base, pirate base...
- Planets with advanced civilization and technology :
Now comes the trickiest part, the one that holds everyone's hopes and fears : how can they make potentially thousands of planet-sized cities that are believable and detailed to today's standards? Here is the way I see it.
It would not be possible to land anywhere you want on the planet. You would have to request docking permission, then you would have to fly to a precise location where you could land. Possibly, there could be several locations to choose from when requesting landing permission. Depending on technical limitations, it could be possible or not to fly around freely, getting as close to the buildings as you'd dare. If free flight is impossible on those planets for technical reasons, you'd have to request landing permission from space, and then follow a landing vector, and would be shot down for violating airspace if you strayed too far from the designated path.
Upon landing and leaving your ship, you would have a limited area to explore, with access to shops, missions, bars... Something like the hubs in Mass Effect 2, or what they seem to be doing with Star Citizen. I don't think we will need vast cities to explore like in GTA, as it will be impossible to create places as enticing as those cities with a procedurally generated environment. Keeping the playable areas small will ensure they are filled with things to do, and that each corner of the area has its use. The player would move on foot. It could be possible to take a train or a shuttle to another hub on the planet, requiring you to come back when you'd want to retrieve your ship.
Possibly, procedurally generated "dungeons" could be the setup for certain missions. Once again I will take Mass Effect 2 as an example, where the hubs are accessible freely, but the missions areas (dungeons) are only accessible while you are on their specific mission. You could take the aforementioned train or shuttle to go to the mission area.
Missions on such planets could consist on stealing an item or information from a place, assassinating a target, wiping an area clear of criminals... It would be interesting if missions taken on a planet could sometimes lead you to another planet and not always be local.
Regarding NPC interactions, I'm not sure about voice acting... while it's now a staple in just about every game, so far in ED communication with NPCs has been entirely text based. Considering this, I believe ED could pull off text conversations with NPCs while on planets. These dialogues could look like they did in Morrowind, with multiple choices and little (or no) voice acting. This would open up many possibilities for procedurally generated dialogue : rumors, mission hints, comments on the system's political situation, comments on the player's status or reputation... voiced dialogue would become redundant extremely quickly, and immersion breaking when you'd hear the same sentence with the same voice on two different planets.
The use of weapons would be forbidden on hubs, to avoid game-breaking abuses. Mission areas would be the place to use them.
Planetside gameplay would open up a whole new world of possibilities, and I hope missions will be more complex and involving than they are now. I'm sure procedurally generated missions could be great fun to play : taking you to a planet to talk to NPCs in order to track down a target, who you would then fight in space. Or beating up a pirate ship in space and then follow it to its base, where you would land and infiltrate to steal data or kill the leader... possibilities are endless and fascinating.
So, what do you think of these ideas ? What is your take on planetary landings ?
Would be nice! I played a game called shores of hazeron which had some interesting things like you started on a planet killed some critters, cut some wood and started building a city/town so you could then build vehicles and spaceships so you could then take off and go into space to colonize moons and other worlds etc. You could even sell those ship designs.
While Hazeron was more and world and ship building game it would be nice to see some things in reverse (since we start in space) in ED like the things Zephyriel mentions, hell I would even like to be able to have my own little hidey whole/hanger I could place somewhere and have be MY home base.
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InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
Imagine conflict zones on the ground! o_0