PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[Dural]

I like killing people in video games, I don't mind being killed either. I've done a lot of it, 70,000 player kills in UT2004 for instance. It's fun when that's why everyone in the game is playing.

However. It's getting out of context (in as far as there is one) for people running about in ships designed purely for the purpose of killing commanders to be attacking anyone they feel like whenever they want to. It's really pretty damned close to bullying. I'm all for bounty hunting, if there is a legitimate and usually avoidable mechanic involved in putting a commander in the position where they become a target. I like the idea of commanders being able to pirate other commander's cargo. I'm all for PVP provided all parties are willing participants and that's the key thing here. Someone hanging around in a 1bn corvette sniping new players exiting the station for the first time is just awful, I mean come on. It's not a challenge, it can't actually be fun, it's just being bloody minded and bullying new players for no reason. There probably isn't much of a defence against a well engineered PVP ship apart from having one yourself which means mining, trading, exploring and landings are an awful lot less practical.

How do you fix this? Goodness knows. It's not like FD can create an honourable behaviour patch and apply it to the muppets is it?

 

[verminstar]

What would need to change is the whole design of the game...from scratch...a rewrite...completely. Everything.

Bingo! At last, the mortals begin to finally understand ^

 

[Roybe]

I like killing people in video games, I don't mind being killed either. I've done a lot of it, 70,000 player kills in UT2004 for instance. It's fun when that's why everyone in the game is playing.

However. It's getting out of context (in as far as there is one) for people running about in ships designed purely for the purpose of killing commanders to be attacking anyone they feel like whenever they want to. It's really pretty damned close to bullying. I'm all for bounty hunting, if there is a legitimate and usually avoidable mechanic involved in putting a commander in the position where they become a target. I like the idea of commanders being able to pirate other commander's cargo. I'm all for PVP provided all parties are willing participants and that's the key thing here. Someone hanging around in a 1bn corvette sniping new players exiting the station for the first time is just awful, I mean come on. It's not a challenge, it can't actually be fun, it's just being bloody minded and bullying new players for no reason. There probably isn't much of a defence against a well engineered PVP ship apart from having one yourself which means mining, trading, exploring and landings are an awful lot less practical.

How do you fix this? Goodness knows. It's not like FD can create an honourable behaviour patch and apply it to the muppets is it?

The designed negative feedback loop, aimed specifically at numpty's, and continuously reinforced by their numpty play, works perfectly. Choose who you want to play with..and you can make changes to the galaxy, equally, as everyone else...through the movement of PVE trophies!

Bingo! At last, the mortals begin to finally understand ^

Which will never occur! The game cannot offer what these people desire...the devs will not shut down the game and do a rewrite...ever.

 

[M00ka]

Holistically, all activities in ED can be defined as a player involved in mining, exploration, combat or trading and everything else is a subset of one or more of those four activities.

Since Day 1 a small but exceedingly vocal group of one of these subsets, the PvP community, has continuously lobbied for everyone else to play the game their way. They want all players to be PvP participants, either as a worthy opponent or a target, either way, content for their ideal version of the game. But isn't that an extremely selfish concern, "I like fighting against other Commanders, therefore I should be allowed to fight against ALL Commanders - FDev, make is so!"

Yet if another one of the primary activities started to lobby for the same thing, they would be ridiculed and laughed off the forums. Could you image if the mining community started posting daily threads demanding that everyone plays in a certain mode, that the game is modified around their activity with zero consideration to how anyone else plays? Which is what the more vocal members of the PvP Community want to do, just that!

 

[lenna]

Indeed, the most boring mmo war system ever devised..

If you think ED is an MMO War Game c/f EvE then you have completely got the wrong end of the stick. ED is not and almost certainly never will be a PvP Frag-fest title like you seem to be looking for.

If you are looking for an MMO War game then ED is not it. Star Citizen might be should it ever get out of Beta and be properly released.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

K go stack 20 missions. Watch you rebuy. Influence with said faction. And time get wasted.

Let alone bounties you may have accumulated or data to turn in.

Then tell me PvP in bgs has no place.

if you hang in SC waiting for our mission runners, traders, and explorers, we'll send one of our PvP guys to keep you busy, and while you're having fun in normal space, the route to the station is unobstructed. As I said, we'll have a bit of fun, while the PvE wins the war.

In an event not long ago, two of us kept 8 pirates occupied. It was so much fun!

 

[lenna]

What would need to change is the whole design of the game...from scratch...a rewrite...completely. Everything.

In short, will never happen.

 

[Stealthie]

I like killing people in video games, I don't mind being killed either. I've done a lot of it, 70,000 player kills in UT2004 for instance. It's fun when that's why everyone in the game is playing.

Trouble is, that's fine in an FPS where there's nothing to do except killing or being killed.
Not so much in a game which claims a wide variety of available pursuits.

Let's face it, it's not a problem unique to ED either.
Look at a game like, say, Minecraft and the community is a total salt-mine over the issue of people trying to build monuments or farms on a server while other people get their yucks just by blowing stuff up "cos they can".

About the only way you're ever going to fix this to the satisfaction of all parties would be to develop a mirror of a modern society, where we're all bound to act in a law-abiding manner or face the near-certainty of a properly punitive response.

I still hope that can be made to work in ED if C&P can be made tough enough to effectively deter serious criminal behaviour in high/medium-sec systems without being so convoluted as to create undue hassle over minor offences while, at the same time, giving outlaws the freedom to do their thing in low-sec systems and giving lawful players plenty of reasons to risk visiting those places.

Alas, I fear there's always be some players who just get their jollies by "beating the system" and inflicting their brand of "emergent gameplay" on people who aren't interested in it, which is why there'll always be room for groups like Mobius.

It's kind of like seeing a bunch of anglers hammer the living poop out of a lake until they've completely wrecked the ecology of it and then complaining that there's no good fishing to be had.
If PvPers in ED aren't happy with the lack of people in Open, it's because they've driven so many players away from Open with lousy behaviour.

 

[jasonbarron]

Trouble is, that's fine in an FPS where there's nothing to do except killing or being killed.
Not so much in a game which claims a wide variety of available pursuits.

Let's face it, it's not a problem unique to ED either.
Look at a game like, say, Minecraft and the community is a total salt-mine over the issue of people trying to build monuments or farms on a server while other people get their yucks just by blowing stuff up "cos they can".

About the only way you're ever going to fix this to the satisfaction of all parties would be to develop a mirror of a modern society, where we're all bound to act in a law-abiding manner or face the near-certainty of a properly punitive response.

I still hope that can be made to work in ED if C&P can be made tough enough to effectively deter serious criminal behaviour in high/medium-sec systems without being so convoluted as to create undue hassle over minor offences while, at the same time, giving outlaws the freedom to do their thing in low-sec systems and giving lawful players plenty of reasons to risk visiting those places.

Alas, I fear there's always be some players who just get their jollies by "beating the system" and inflicting their brand of "emergent gameplay" on people who aren't interested in it, which is why there'll always be room for groups like Mobius.

It's kind of like seeing a bunch of anglers hammer the living poop out of a lake until they've completely wrecked the ecology of it and then complaining that there's no good fishing to be had.
If PvPers in ED aren't happy with the lack of people in Open, it's because they've driven so many players away from Open with lousy behaviour.

Actually, it's fine here, too. And it seems that the "lake" is doing pretty good, despite all of you Mobius advertisers false advertising; I always see more people in Open than Group.

And what does this have to do with the OP, anyway? I think the last on topic post was mine from about 4 hours ago.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

In my opinion, Elite needs:

1) Cross play between all platforms.

2) Open only BgS and PowerPlay.

3) Challenging NPCs and rewards to match. To hell with the no skill credit farmers.

Anything less is capitulation to a lesser Elite: Dangerous experience that doesn't deserve any of our time, effort, or joy.

 

[verminstar]

I see way more players on this thread than I do in open...or something...no wait thats not right...no actually it is...erm...

 

[Roybe]

In my opinion, Elite needs:

1) Cross play between platforms.

2) Open only BgS and PowerPlay.

3) Challenging NPCs and rewards to match. To hell with the no skill credit farmers.

Anything less is capitulation to a lesser Elite: Dangerous experience that doesn't deserve any of our time, effort, or joy.

1. Already have it...and have seen it organized!

2. never going to happen...

3. Had it...and nerfed because PVP players declared 'god mode NPC's' and cried for weeks until it was changed.

 

[Numenor1379]

If you want to encourage more PvE players to go into Open, the rewards need to equal the risk.

Take an Explorer who has been out in the black for a year. They likely have several billion credits worth of data to turn in. A huge time investment. What possible reason do they have for risking all that to a PvP ganker when going to turn it in?

Compare that to the max risk the PvP player takes, a rebuy and whatever bounties they have.

The comparative risks are utterly unbalanced. Perhaps a reward multiplier could be added to Open gameplay to encourage people to use it. Until the risks for the various playstyles are equalized (or at least made worth it), there is zero reason for PvE players to bother. Pragmatism is alive and well.

 

[Han_Zen]

I see way more players on this thread than I do in open...or something...no wait thats not right...no actually it is...erm...

Just played an hour in open. Three player contacts. All docked at Selens's place.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

1. Already have it...and have seen it organized!

2. never going to happen...

3. Had it...and nerfed because PVP players declared 'god mode NPC's' and cried for weeks until it was changed.

Giving up that easy you must not be much of a Commander. Shame.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

If you want to encourage more PvE players to go into Open, the rewards need to equal the risk.

Take an Explorer who has been out in the black for a year. They likely have several billion credits worth of data to turn in. A huge time investment. What possible reason do they have for risking all that to a PvP ganker when going to turn it in?

Compare that to the max risk the PvP player takes, a rebuy and whatever bounties they have.

The comparative risks are utterly unbalanced. Perhaps a reward multiplier could be added to Open gameplay to encourage people to use it. Until the risks for the various playstyles are equalized (or at least made worth it), there is zero reason for PvE players to bother. Pragmatism is alive and well.

If you want to encourage more PvE players into Open, educate folks on the stupidity of decisions like rollin' around with billions of credits worth of exploration data and no plan on how to offload it safely.

Fail to plan, plan to get ganked.

 

[jasonbarron]

1. Already have it...and have seen it organized!

2. never going to happen...

3. Had it...and nerfed because PVP players declared 'god mode NPC's' and cried for weeks until it was changed.

What are you smoking? The only tough NPC's that were introduced and then nerfed into oblivion were the 2.1 NPC's, and I have a news flash for you; it wasn't PvPers literally screaming their heads off for it.

If you want to encourage more PvE players into Open, educate folks on the stupidity of decisions like rollin' around with billions of credits worth of exploration data and no plan on how to offload it safely.

Fail to plan, plan to get ganked.

As an aside: is that Moriarty in your avatar?

 

[Roybe]

Giving up that easy you must not be much of a Commander. Shame.

Nothing to be 'giving up' about. This is not my game, nor my design. I am aware that the devs have no interest in changing any of the parts that are complained about in this thread...so it's not my problem. I enjoy the game when I play it...and hope it gets better. I am also aware that the status of PVP is a sideshow....and that the only important gameplay in this game is the chase for the PVE trophies...and it is always a race to the most number collected.

Playing this game, with hopes of more...is fruitless. Cut your losses and play something that you like...and don't keep waiting for 'potential'..the devs aren't going to add that part to the game..regardless of how great it might be.

If you want to encourage more PvE players to go into Open, the rewards need to equal the risk.

Take an Explorer who has been out in the black for a year. They likely have several billion credits worth of data to turn in. A huge time investment. What possible reason do they have for risking all that to a PvP ganker when going to turn it in?

Compare that to the max risk the PvP player takes, a rebuy and whatever bounties they have.

The comparative risks are utterly unbalanced. Perhaps a reward multiplier could be added to Open gameplay to encourage people to use it. Until the risks for the various playstyles are equalized (or at least made worth it), there is zero reason for PvE players to bother. Pragmatism is alive and well.

Have you ever tried to get PVE people to PVP...regardless of the reward system?

Or those that do can't be bothered with other people?

This game allows them to do what they want...and provides the exact same input as those that play in Open....

 

[Roybe]

What are you smoking? The only tough NPC's that were introduced and then nerfed into oblivion were the 2.1 NPC's, and I have a news flash for you; it wasn't PvPers literally screaming their heads off for it.



As an aside: is that Moriarty in your avatar?

Just like the ATR...I heard more people from PVP complaining about 'god mode' NPC's..than any other group complaining in this forum.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

As an aside: is that Moriarty in your avatar?

Honey... you should see me in a crown.