No, you are full of it. What constructiveness or technical details did he bring? First paragraph is all about "ED's biggest problem being the gulf between PVE and PvP players" No, it isn't, there are far bigger issues facing this game PvP is basically restricted to certain stations and CGs in Open. For the vast majority of PVE players PvP is irrelevant. Second paragraph is "What will fix all this is buffing NPCs to the level of PvP ship/player" How the hell so? How the hell would being ganked 4 v 1 by god level NPCs in a CZ enrich my gaming experience and bring the PVE and PVP sides closer together? Third paragraph is essentially "Screw you guys, I'm going home". Provoking perhaps, but far from thought provoking.
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No, you are full of it. What constructiveness or technical details did he bring? First paragraph is all about "ED's biggest problem being the gulf between PVE and PvP players" No, it isn't, there are far bigger issues facing this game PvP is basically restricted to certain stations and CGs in Open. For the vast majority of PVE players PvP is irrelevant. Second paragraph is "What will fix all this is buffing NPCs to the level of PvP ship/player" How the hell so? How the hell would being ganked 4 v 1 by god level NPCs in a CZ enrich my gaming experience and bring the PVE and PVP sides closer together? Third paragraph is essentially "Screw you guys, I'm going home". Provoking perhaps, but far from thought provoking.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Im not disagreeing there. Ive always looked at what we have now. If that makes sense?
who knows what they could change in that regard. But I look forward to what ever decision they make. I just hope the announce something soon. Patience is running thin. And not just for me. But for OP, You and probably and many more.
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Let me reiterate, if you're still focusing on the PVP vs PVE non-argument, then you have missed the point of the OP entirely, and you are indeed part of the problem OP is trying to highlight.
It's right there in the OP!
LOL
It's right there in the OP!
LOL
All I ever hear from the PVP people is that the modes need to be done away with/that Open needs to be buffed...that there needs to equity, rather than equality, between the modes, that there should be some PVP specific content in the game, etc.
Whenever NPC's get buffs (not counting bugs that are fixed quickly), all we hear from the PVP side is that the devs use god modes and that the NPC's need to be nerfed...and they, and everyone else, complains about the increased time sinks/grind..and the NPC's get nerfed.
We all agreed that a C & P system that had 'teeth' would be a good thing..and now, just 4 weeks after the introduction, the PVP and PVE folks have both jumped up and down...and pulled half the teeth out of what we did get....and more teeth being pulled with every upgrade...currently it's just as easy to get rid of fines, bounties, etc as it was before the update...so, good job, all!
To all these desires that PVP folks gnash their teeth about..keep refusing to listen to reason...and just keep on keeping on....and just like the OP...and many others...you will have to understand that they are not going to change...not because people refuse to accept change, but because when change comes in...everyone, on both sides of the issue, demands that things changed get nerfed back to the baseline.
PVP is a sideshow, because everyone demands changes to be watered down...as much as the devs want to keep it as such.
Whenever NPC's get buffs (not counting bugs that are fixed quickly), all we hear from the PVP side is that the devs use god modes and that the NPC's need to be nerfed...and they, and everyone else, complains about the increased time sinks/grind..and the NPC's get nerfed.
We all agreed that a C & P system that had 'teeth' would be a good thing..and now, just 4 weeks after the introduction, the PVP and PVE folks have both jumped up and down...and pulled half the teeth out of what we did get....and more teeth being pulled with every upgrade...currently it's just as easy to get rid of fines, bounties, etc as it was before the update...so, good job, all!
To all these desires that PVP folks gnash their teeth about..keep refusing to listen to reason...and just keep on keeping on....and just like the OP...and many others...you will have to understand that they are not going to change...not because people refuse to accept change, but because when change comes in...everyone, on both sides of the issue, demands that things changed get nerfed back to the baseline.
PVP is a sideshow, because everyone demands changes to be watered down...as much as the devs want to keep it as such.
verminstar
Banned
So I’m being selfish by playing the game my way...gotcha.
Why come here at all ye say? Why not? Yer not a mod and don’t have the automatic right who decides who posts and who doesn’t...ye want a pvp echo chamber then go to Reddit.
Lose credibility? To who? You? Hold on till I finish laughing...and I care about this because...?
And ye think that’s enough to stop me voicing my opinion? Yer very naive...I can tell these things ^
I can't speak about the PvP / PvE rift, mainly because my PvP experience is very limited, with ~30 engagements mostly before engineering.
However : engineering had devolved PvE combat into turkey shooting for most cases. Which for a game with both Elite and Dangerous in the name
is quite ironic. I just want to remind to everyone that people farmed CZ/RES just fine before engineering. IMO that means that any argument
in the line of saying that giving NPC's equivalent mods to the players would make the game too hard does not hold any water.
Still, there is the issue of non-Hz players that might have to face engineered NPC's, which would be rather bad.
A good way to close the "Rift" is not that hard :
*x4 shields, x3 hull, +40% speed and agility, +50% damage, +50% capcitor recharge.... it's nuts really.
And @Frenotx : Sad to see you take a leave from the forums, your technical posts and analysis are pure gold.
Still, I can only understand given the amout of flak such game improvements generate.
However : engineering had devolved PvE combat into turkey shooting for most cases. Which for a game with both Elite and Dangerous in the name
is quite ironic. I just want to remind to everyone that people farmed CZ/RES just fine before engineering. IMO that means that any argument
in the line of saying that giving NPC's equivalent mods to the players would make the game too hard does not hold any water.
Still, there is the issue of non-Hz players that might have to face engineered NPC's, which would be rather bad.
- One of the best recieved 3.0 feature is... wing assassination missions. Why ? Because they provide a decent challenge for a small / med G5 moded ship. So demand is here.
- Bounty farming is a full part of the game, it has been from the get go. So it should stay. So we need all RES/CZ grades to be about bounty farming though ?
- God among insect gameplay does not fit well with the elite lore of the players non being super hero. Yet, here we are with ships 10x* more powerfull than the NPC's
A good way to close the "Rift" is not that hard :
- Keep low RES and regular RES about bounty farming. Same for low Intensity CZ's.
- Make High intensity populated with engineered NPC's. There is still the police to help and so on.
- Haz Res become actually hazardous with wings of engineered NPC's and really good rewards. Hard enough for an engineered wing.
- Dangerous ranked assassination missions get the the wing assassination mission difficulty 5. Diff 6 for Elite, 7 for wings. Or something like that, i.e. put diff 6/7 missions.
- Why can't we give engineering to everyone ? Removing the HZ/non-HZ divide would solve a lot of headaches.
- Elite NPC combat ships should match PvP ships, both in outfitting and mods.
- When your expert NPC pilot can clean a CZ with a G5 big3 all by himself, it's quite telling, isn't it ?
- No G5 NPC's in SC and other unavoidable places, to keep non-HZ players out of impossible fights.
*x4 shields, x3 hull, +40% speed and agility, +50% damage, +50% capcitor recharge.... it's nuts really.
And @Frenotx : Sad to see you take a leave from the forums, your technical posts and analysis are pure gold.
Still, I can only understand given the amout of flak such game improvements generate.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Because hassling someone or acting out on the forum is somehow more acceptable/reasonable to you?
LOL
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WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
It being a side show is what needs to be fixed. Its a core problem within the elite dangerous community. Especially if you ARE NOT A PVPER.
Its really unfair to all parties involved.
Time to give it a purpose. And stop allowing it to be that sideshow.
Do that and the community comes together. They maybe fighting each other in game. But it will be PVP vs PVP. Instead of PVE vs PVP with a side of FORUM PVP because of it like we have now?
Won't happen...sorry. You guys refuse to ask for changes that make sense...and when there are sensible changes made...you get them nerfed. Not going to happen.
And trying to get PVE people to happily PVP...that's just a pipe dream. Stop and think for just a minute on that piece of logic.
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WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Do it all or do none of it. Pretty simple. Thats how you get people to do meaningful PVP over objectives. Maynards right here they could add something to the context. But still PMFS exist through the BGS. Which would mean no matter what they add. There would still need to be some tweaking to the core elements of the game.
So something WILL change. Just dont know what it is yet. IF we see it. They see it too buddy. Trust me.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Still pushing this line I see.
I see what you did there.
Fly safe. Dangerous Discussion in particular can be pretty toxic, so ignoring it and just playing the game sounds like a solid plan.
To be fair, Stealthie has got it a bit wrong. The person he was responding to wasn't talking about hassling some guy in-game because he doesn't like what that specific person said on the forum. The person was basically saying that because he get's butt-hurt about what is said on the forum is justification for him to go out and kill randomly in game. They never talked about finding the specific person that hurt his feelings (who is probably is Solo or Private anyways). So yes, I'd say pretty unreasonable.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Its inevitable. Only because of the toxicity it has caused.
It's a video game, you can't force anyone to do anything. People will vote with their menu selections, which they have been doing resulting in a population problem for open.
The same tired old already lost arguments will be made by new posters as the old give up on it, that's the only change there will be for modes.
As a PvPer, the attitudes of a lot of PvPers here make me cringe.
All you have to do to not be killed by me, is not wear a federation power play tag.
That said, powerplay objectives should not be able to be accomplished in private groups or solo. Even if it's a PvE activity like hauling, undermining, or conflict zones. In the context of powerplay it is a strategic PvP activity taken against other player groups and shouldn't be able to be done without the possibility of being opposed.
All you have to do to not be killed by me, is not wear a federation power play tag.
That said, powerplay objectives should not be able to be accomplished in private groups or solo. Even if it's a PvE activity like hauling, undermining, or conflict zones. In the context of powerplay it is a strategic PvP activity taken against other player groups and shouldn't be able to be done without the possibility of being opposed.
See stealthie's response, you are the confused one.
Maybe you should have used one of the less ambiguous and better fitting synonyms - spiteful would seem to suit your apparently intended meaning better.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
This guy gets it. Whats everyone elses issue with that?
People's mode choices are theirs not yours, and you can't take content away from other players.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That's an opinion that Frontier, rather obviously, don't share (although Sandro has said that PowerPlay offers the opportunity for consensual PvP) - as it was implemented, heading for three years ago now, in all three game modes.
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