WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Why is it impossible? What needs to change to make it possible?
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Why is it impossible? What needs to change to make it possible?
verminstar
Banned
If theres to be a meeting in the middle, then it cant be all take, ther has to be some give...so what does solo gain now that its lost bgs influence? Ye say ye want balance but ddnt offer any...yer plan is to take stuff away and in return...? Nothing...thats not balance, thats a demand, nothing more.
The only way forward is a compromise...in both camps. If no compromise then there can be no resolution...and ye cant argue ye way outta this one because if one mode loses something to another mode, then the modes are no longer equal...which would result in a massive backlash.
[haven't read the replies yet, just the OP - but it spoke to me, so replying before reading the reactions]
It's funny. I live this gulf increasingly within myself
I am a BGS player. I "farm" absolutely in PvE for influence for the factions I support. I enjoy PvE combat, especially since I returned to the medium ships (Alliance Chieftain, oh yes).
But I am also increasingly a PvP player. Before 3.0 that would be largely in stock ships, to avoid Engineering imbalances, but with 3.0 Engineering putting max builds in my grasp, now primarily with top-engineered ships, and had some live encounters as well (the vast majority of PvP is practice within my group).
And I would say, 3.0 did a really good job of bridging that gulf, and make it easier to combine the two. I fly a shieldless Chieftain that is primarily for 1v1, 2v2 PvP in its build, but I also use it for bounty hunting and in the CZs. Flying 100% FA Off with PAs and rails, bounty hunting is good practice, if only because of the added danger of running into asteroids, and CZs are fun to practice on big ships - as well as dogfighting small ships. Try hitting a darty vulture with large PAs in HOTAS FA Off! That skill definitely transfers to PvP, too. And the wing assassination missions done solo, against an engineered big three while under fire from 5 vultures? Excellent practice for a medium ship!
Meanwhile, my non-practice PvP has always been BGS or lore based, i.e. related to my PvE gameplay.
So, why choose at all between PvE and PvP? ¿porque no los dos?
[video=youtube;OawrlVoQqSs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OawrlVoQqSs[/video]
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WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
The compromise would be taking away the ability to effect player factions and powerplay from solo. They can still manipulate the BGS with NPC's all they would like elsewhere. The galaxy is huge. Go do it somewhere else that doesnt have a player faction in it.
Not really rocket science here folks.
People don't tear each other apart group, all-mode and solo players are happy already. So are most open players, it's just there are some open only proponents who feel miffed by other peoples choices.
Anyone genuinely interested in making open more appealing should be backing things like the PVP hub and calling out salt miners/gankers/griefers/station trolls, they're the reason opens got a population problem. If those things hadn't all been repeatedly explained away as legitimate PVP for four years this situation with open becoming an irrelevant ghost town might not have come about.
The issue of limiting effect on the BGS can be addressed by adding another layer of BGS. PowerPlay is an optional layer on top of the BGS, there can be another that is PvP, Open play specific.
This side-steps any issues with disrupting any existing solo/group BGS & Power Players.
Are you confusing real life with the video game ?.
Then you are talking about removing probably 80-90% of BGS gameplay.
I have a better idea, how about removing BGS/Power Play from Open - problem solved.
Seriously though, FD have been over this ground before - all modes are considered equal, and whether the segregation is by mode, platform, or instance there are going to be a substantial number of players you will never see that have an effect on the single shared universe state. I think it is long overdue that some accept this simple fact and stop this "Hotel California" class filibustering.
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One thing that is abundantly clear to me is that the game is nowhere near being a challenge in terms of NPC difficulty, and that it would be a lot more fun if the dial were turned up. I think it's pretty obvious all of the farmers are going to scream bloody murder about any increased NPC lethality across the board, but it's hard to see how bringing some of them up to speed with players with a 2 year headstart on engineering inflation could be a bad thing to anyone willing to employ even a single dollop of logic, fair mindedness or just general sportsmanship. The situation we have now is essentially shooting fish in a barrel, and that's just stupid and unfun for everybody but the farmers.
A couple things that desperately need to happen if you're fdev and you want to cater to anybody besides the farmers: missions with massive rewards that spawn massively OP threats, I'm talking full meal deal everything goes engineering. A new level of CZ & RES that have a chance of spawning moderate to fully engineered NPC's, again, with massively increased rewards both in terms of cash and materials. A small chance that spawning NPC's meant to track you for various mission related reasons have a chance at being moderately to fully engineered. This is just off the top of my head.
As it stands now, a player in a Cobra or Viper can solo wing assassination missions and these ships are an order of several magnitudes more difficult then any other similarly ranked ship anywhere in the game. Hard to see how this is fun, or balanced. Once you remove the word "PvPer" or "PvEr" from the sentiment and realize that the player demographic is more accurately divided between "those who would like a challenge" and "those who don't like a challenge" the situation in regards to the community disagreement on the topic become more clear.
The players who fall in the latter camp have been on a mission to seal club this topic in the head ever since it first came up with 2.1, and the sentiment leveled against Frentox is just another step on that well established road. It's too bad, because if we could all just find some common ground the game would benefit from it.
A couple things that desperately need to happen if you're fdev and you want to cater to anybody besides the farmers: missions with massive rewards that spawn massively OP threats, I'm talking full meal deal everything goes engineering. A new level of CZ & RES that have a chance of spawning moderate to fully engineered NPC's, again, with massively increased rewards both in terms of cash and materials. A small chance that spawning NPC's meant to track you for various mission related reasons have a chance at being moderately to fully engineered. This is just off the top of my head.
As it stands now, a player in a Cobra or Viper can solo wing assassination missions and these ships are an order of several magnitudes more difficult then any other similarly ranked ship anywhere in the game. Hard to see how this is fun, or balanced. Once you remove the word "PvPer" or "PvEr" from the sentiment and realize that the player demographic is more accurately divided between "those who would like a challenge" and "those who don't like a challenge" the situation in regards to the community disagreement on the topic become more clear.
The players who fall in the latter camp have been on a mission to seal club this topic in the head ever since it first came up with 2.1, and the sentiment leveled against Frentox is just another step on that well established road. It's too bad, because if we could all just find some common ground the game would benefit from it.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
The second principle the OP alludes to is the "fundamental attribution error" and it goes hand in hand with the "othering".
Eg
"You're only saying that because(attribution error) you are a PVP/PVEer(othering)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
Eg
"You're only saying that because(attribution error) you are a PVP/PVEer(othering)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
Then you are talking about removing probably 80-90% of BGS gameplay.
I have a better idea, how about removing BGS/Power Play from Open - problem solved.
That's no solution. You could have a new BGS Layer that was solo only though.
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No I'm using real life logic. Why should you be able to trigger an outbreak in my system by spending an afternoon shipping in Biowaste in your shieldless Cutter without anyone being able to do -all about it?
Because you did it covertly and no one knows it was you.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
You do realize PVP hub, GCI and so forth all exist because of these issues alone right? Instead of powerplay like FDEV intended? That was supposed to be the outlet for PVP. BGS player faction is exactly the same as powerplay. Except crime rules apply. No difference in the end. Its player groups effecting other player groups.
EDIT: Oh and combat logging. Even if it is 15 seconds. Its still a buncha nonsense.
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I think you missed my edit - limiting any feature explicitly to any mode is a ridiculously stupid idea IMO.
Couldn't disagree more. You're talking about a game. And instead of embracing Open mode where you can go neck and neck with the best human players there are, better than any NPC, you suggest increasing NPC difficulty to further alienate the average Joe wanting to have a bit of space fun? Rubbish.
Glad to see I took a long break from the game and this is still a hot button subject. My speculations about the future of this game are almost always 180 degrees out from what happens, so for fun, I'll help you out and say....."if they wanted to address this issue, they would have by now so let it go, not gonna happen" There, should be fixed soon™
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Because that's how the game was advertised and sold.
Lets turn your argument on it's head why should a player who researched his purchase have content taken away because another player who didn't read up on the game at all is now cross about what he bought.
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