General / Off-Topic The safest place

[metatheurgist]

Source: https://youtu.be/VVxYOQS6ggk

That Gordon Gecko guy was a prophet. (Sorry, mods, that's only accidentally, tangentially and ironically political. Any perceived deliberateness is a hoax! )

Errrr.... O.T. a little, maybe.
They have a number of factors working for them.
Fear. Always a goodie for controlling the minions.
Power. This is often, only perceived. But adds to fear and greed.
Greed. Most of the good ones, have wealth, or at least, rumours of such.
Crime, is about ill gotten gains and a greater part of the human race, wants a part of that.

 

[Patrick_68000]

In Naples in Italy, for lack of space in hospitals, the people infected with the coronavirus are placed on oxygen in their car.

We already knew about take-out

 

[Patrick_68000]

Not going to take it at all, more for you guys, yes, you can thank me later

In a previous post I said that 1/4 of French people would refuse a vaccine.

But in the current state of scientific proposals (including Pfizer), it is 54% of the French who would refuse the vaccine.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Nobodies going to thank you for deliberately exposing other people to the risk of serious illness or even death.

We could say the same if the vaccine is not 100% finalized (long term safe, reasonable duration of immunity, free ...)

 

[Patrick_68000]

At the moment, the US seems to have an existential crisis in progress.

This is likely to immediately overwhelm any public health issues indefinitely, just when concerted efforts would be needed.

The diversion is going to cost them potentially hundreds of thousands of lives, and likely much more.

Fortunately Pfizer will save America

 

[Patrick_68000]

Nobodies going to thank you for deliberately exposing other people to the risk of serious illness or even death.

Concerning the Pfizer vaccine, the High Authority for Health in France judges that "vaccination against Covid-19 should not be compulsory, neither for the general population, nor for health professionals".

"Indeed, within the framework of a schedule not well known of delivery of vaccine doses, and at this time of the lack of perspective on future vaccines as well as their ability to limit the contagion of the virus, this would not be justified ".

 

[Morbad]

Would be nice to live in a world where criminals weren't exalted though.

I don't exalt them, not by a long shot, and I certainly encourage vigilance against any and all organizations that have managed to accrue any kind of power. I simply accept that self-interest usually keeps them from the more overt and boneheaded forms of villainy...like trying to fake data to sell billions of dollars of high-profile product to the governments and populations of wealthy nations in circumstances where an ineffectual or harmful product would be quickly and clearly revealed for what it was. Such scams are saved for markets that no one with power cares about, or circumstances where it's easy to hide.

A vaccine that doesn't work is blatantly obvious when infection rates among the vaccinated don't fall to where they should be. A vaccine that is harmful is blatantly obvious when people start to get sick after a vaccination campaign. Even organizations that wouldn't bat an eye at the thought of facilitating the most horrific actions are not going to commit financial suicide by messing with vaccines. No amount of extortion, bribery, or lobbying is going to buy one's way out of that kind of screw up.

I cannot prevent anyone else from mistaking self-interest for altruism or some other virtue. Nor am I going to lead a boycott of a product I have a need for, exposing myself and others to tangible harm, just because I don't like the values of those peddling it.

However, I will happily advocate against excessive intellectual property 'rights' that allow profiteering off disease.

My first question would be, before rolling up my sleeve, would be, how do they prove that dose, is genuine? Everything, worth anything, has been faked and sold, in the millions.

Just a thought.

Probably best to ask your physician if you have any concerns, but I know these products have serial numbers, tamper evident/resistant packaging, random inspection/tests of batches, etc.

Go to any legitimate healthcare provider and there will be a paper trail for everything. Risk/reward for trying to distribute a fake, mass produced, vaccine in quality healthcare system would not be favorable, and the losses would mostly fall on insurance providers who have strong incentive to ensure it doesn't happen often (by mandating certain procedures and aggressively prosecuting fraud).

Not saying there won't be small scale fraud at the individual practice level (where most supply chain checks have already been done and swapping out a product is easier), or that it will be hard to find fake/substandard products for sale, but if you go to a reputable practice in a developed nation, you almost certainly have very little to worry about. Just stay away from quacks and don't order stuff through gray-market sources.

Less developed areas may well have much more serious problems in this regard, however.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

This worry about the Pfizer vaccine is somewhat misplaced, in my view.
I think it is likely to be sufficiently efficacious to be useful, and sufficiently safe to pass the initial hurdles for manufacture. The precise efficacy might be in question, but we'll figure it out quickly once it's in actual use.

There is a much bigger problem developing, threatening structural stability within the country of manufacture. Should things go badly, the ability of the factories to function is in question. And all existing arrangements are unlikely to be met by future circumstance, or by contract violation should the wrong side prevail.

This poses a danger to the world supply of vaccine during a deadly pandemic. The criminality of the ones responsible is rising to historic, Nuremberg levels when you count the potential cost in lives.

Never thought that it might become reasonable, but in order to secure vaccine, it may reach the point where other allied nations interests begin to mandate initial nonmilitary intervention in order to secure supply, and NATO nations may need to address the threat. If this were the only vaccine it would become rather dire very quickly.

In any event, I would choose to invest in a manufacturer based elsewhere, perhaps with a completely different product.

 

[Synkreto]

This worry about the Pfizer vaccine is somewhat misplaced, in my view.
I think it is likely to be sufficiently efficacious to be useful, and sufficiently safe to pass the initial hurdles for manufacture. The precise efficacy might be in question, but we'll figure it out quickly once it's in actual use.

There is a much bigger problem developing, threatening structural stability within the country of manufacture. Should things go badly, the ability of the factories to function is in question. And all existing arrangements are unlikely to be met by future circumstance, or by contract violation should the wrong side prevail.

This poses a danger to the world supply of vaccine during a deadly pandemic. The criminality of the ones responsible is rising to historic, Nuremberg levels when you count the potential cost in lives.

Never thought that it might become reasonable, but in order to secure vaccine, it may reach the point where other allied nations interests begin to mandate initial nonmilitary intervention in order to secure supply, and NATO nations may need to address the threat. If this were the only vaccine it would become rather dire very quickly.

In any event, I would choose to invest in a manufacturer based elsewhere, perhaps with a completely different product.

Or...

Make it possible to have it manufactured by many, in many places .

Patents kill. Or: Medicines for All

For the production of medical knowledge as a public good. A global call

www.patents-kill.org

 

[Synkreto]

on a sidenote, Pfizer manufactures in Belgium (Puurs) also . Biontech in 2 locations in Germany (Mainz, Idar-Oberstein), about to start up a third (Marburg) .

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Fortunately Pfizer will save America

Reply Removed..

 

[Synkreto]

Freezers with ability to go beyond -80°C and small, very specifically made glass vials are going to be a very hot commodity .

 

[ianw]

Freezers with ability to go beyond -80°C and small, very specifically made glass vials are going to be a very hot commodity .

Excellent play on words!

 

[Synkreto]

Excellent play on words!

I am not native English, its unintentional . Pls explain ?

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Well, freezers are cold.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

At the moment, the US seems to have an existential crisis in progress.

This is likely to immediately overwhelm any public health issues indefinitely, just when concerted efforts would be needed.

The diversion is going to cost them potentially hundreds of thousands of lives, and likely much more.

It's the disintegration of a dysfunctional family.

The world's reaction to the pandemic is very similar to an alcoholic family's. It can't cope with a terminal event.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Fortunately Pfizer will save America

No, it will not.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

I think we all need a vacation.

How about a little cruise on a Royal Caribbean Ship?

Royal Caribbean Will Look for Volunteers for Series of 'Trial Sailings'

The test cruises come after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention lifted its “No-Sail” Order.

www.travelandleisure.com

(Ducks and runs away)

 

[lysan]

Nobodies going to thank you for deliberately exposing other people to the risk of serious illness or even death.

if you take it you would be safe right? anyway you don't need to thank me, that's ok, still not going to take it.

 

[lysan]

Bottom line:
The world needs a affective vaccine and it looks like it is on offer. Someone had to make it, develop it, test it etc, etc.. Anyone who wants it, feels they need it and has it, have no real grounds, to question company motives etc.. Companies are made for profit, but that is a different matter and not for this thread.

My first question would be, before rolling up my sleeve, would be, how do they prove that dose, is genuine? Everything, worth anything, has been faked and sold, in the millions.

Just a thought.

They can't, there is no vaccine on the earth that will make you avoid the flu, and as COVID is a relative to a normal flu same rules apply, it mutates and when it does the vaccine doesn't work.