General / Off-Topic The safest place

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Oldviboy

Oldviboy
Ian Skippy said:
Last crisis in 2008 we bailed out the banks, with money they had to and did pay back in full, with interest. The issue is not with helping banks, but giving them free money they don't have to pay back while they take the houses from taxpayers who can't afford their mortgage after paying the very taxes that bailed the banks.
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In Spain they have only returned 5,000 million of 65,675 million .... and 12 years have passed .
 

Morbad

Morbad
Ian Skippy said:
As for freedom, you might want ask yourself why the incarceration rate in the US is highest of all countries
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Prison is the US equivalent of a social security net and a convenient way for private business to take a handout of public money. The prison-industrial complex gets paid to warehouse people for profit, then profits again by using them for slave labor. They reinvest by buying politicians to push a 'tough on crime' mantra, which keeps incarceration rates up.

Anyway, you have to be a minority, totally destitute, or a complete moron to wind up in prison in the US, so it's a problem that's easy to dismiss for most of the enfranchised...if one can somehow overlook spending 30-60k per inmate per year to keep hundreds of thousands of non-violent offenders locked away for victimless crimes.

Stealthie said:
More generally, I'm a little bit confused by all the stuff relating to care-homes.
The majority of them (all?) are private businesses these days and yet we seem to be considering them as if they were a nationalised institution.
If they have no PPE and the residents and staff are dropping like flies, shouldn't that be a cause for criticism of the way they're being run, rather than a cause for sympathy?
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No contradiction in being sympathetic toward the residents and front-line staff while being simultaneously highly critical of the management, politics, and business side of these facilities.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Stealthie said:
I genuinely DON'T intend to get political but I find it baffling when people moan about the money spent to prop up banks.

If a bank fails, all it's customers (the people who have mortgages and loans, as well as the businesses that have loans and the employees of those businesses) are going to suffer as a result.
Any govenment with half a brain is going to understand that allowing a bank to fail is likely to have far-reaching consequences for a society.

I don't really believe that anybody wouldn't understand this so I tend to think that those opposed are ideologically driven.
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The best would be for the government to temporarily take control of the troubled bank.

However in France during the 2008 financial crisis, the country brought money to the banks but not for free.

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Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
I read an expert article that says that the leaders maintain the debts which allows the system to hold.

Like a man with a car on credit, a house on credit, a vacation on credit ... he has to get up every morning to reimburse and he is chained to his overlords.

It's so true.

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Morbad

Morbad
Stealthie said:
I genuinely DON'T intend to get political but I find it baffling when people moan about the money spent to prop up banks.

If a bank fails, all it's customers (the people who have mortgages and loans, as well as the businesses that have loans and the employees of those businesses) are going to suffer as a result.
Any govenment with half a brain is going to understand that allowing a bank to fail is likely to have far-reaching consequences for a society.

I don't really believe that anybody wouldn't understand this so I tend to think that those opposed are ideologically driven.
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I'm firmly in the 'let them fail' camp. I realize this would have severe consequences in the short to mid-term, but we've been bailing out, in some form or another, poorly managed banks since at least the panics of the gilded age, and even after countless major iterations, I feel the system is broken to the extent it should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Most modern bailouts fail to enforce any sort of accountability on those responsible for irresponsible policies that threatened insolvency. Board members and senior executives are retaining their positions and compensation, or benefiting from golden parachutes, when their heads should roll.

And of course this is ideologically driven. What isn't? I have a big problem with a system that allows gains to be privatized while socializing losses. It's good for no one in the long term, except bankers and those getting kickbacks from them.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Morbad said:
I'm firmly in the 'let them fail' camp. I realize this would have severe consequences in the short to mid-term, but we've been bailing out, in some form or another, poorly managed banks since at least the panics of the gilded age, and even after countless major iterations, I feel the system is broken to the extent it should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Most modern bailouts fail to enforce any sort of accountability on those responsible for irresponsible policies that threatened insolvency. Board members and senior executives are retaining their positions and compensation, or benefiting from golden parachutes, when their heads should roll.

And of course this is ideologically driven. What isn't? I have a big problem with a system that allows gains to be privatized while socializing losses. It's good for no one in the long term, except bankers and those getting kickbacks from them.
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I agree.

However if the money loaned to the bank is reimbursed in full and with interest, I am not disturbed.

However in this case, lower salaries of managers, no financial actions, no golden retirement ...

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Stealthie

Stealthie
Morbad said:
I'm firmly in the 'let them fail' camp. I realize this would have severe consequences in the short to mid-term, but we've been bailing out, in some form or another, poorly managed banks since at least the panics of the gilded age, and even after countless major iterations, I feel the system is broken to the extent it should be replaced sooner rather than later.

Most modern bailouts fail to enforce any sort of accountability on those responsible for irresponsible policies that threatened insolvency. Board members and senior executives are retaining their positions and compensation, or benefiting from golden parachutes, when their heads should roll.

And of course this is ideologically driven. What isn't? I have a big problem with a system that allows gains to be privatized while socializing losses. It's good for no one in the long term, except bankers and those getting kickbacks from them.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for regulating and monitoring this stuff and holding both organisations and individuals accountable for failures.

If it was up to me, I'd create some kind of national "Financial Insurance Institute" which would audit any bank that wanted to join.
Banks with a diverse, ethical, portfolio of interests would score points whereas banks that operate solely within financial markets and/or in sketchy markets wouldn't.
Equally, banks with respectable staff would gain points whereas banks with staff who have a string of failures behind them woudn't.
Also, banks with good procedures in place to regulate their own businesses - and a proven record of following those procedures - would score points while others wouldn't score points.

Banks that scored sufficiently highly in all aspects would be granted membership of my FII and would be eligible for government support in the event of a financial crisis.
Banks that weren't members might be eligible for support upon completion of an emergency audit.
Banks that had been denied membership would not be eligible for support.

Membership of my FII would be a strong incentive for customers to use those banks in preference to non-member banks which would encourage banks to operate in an ethical manner in order to become a member of my FII and attract new customers.
It would also create a situation where, as members of my FII, the government would gain an insight into what member banks were doing and allow plans to be made in case of emergencies and provide an opportunity for "adjustment" if a bank started to act in a manner likely to cause problems later on.

And, of course, if a bank (or it's customers) doesn't like the idea of government oversight then they'd be perfectly free to remain completely independent - with the risk of no support in a time of emergency.
 

Wotthe Dickens

Wotthe Dickens
Stealthie said:
Did you actually read that article?
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Actually I have to say I didn’t read it all but I posted to point out that there was another way.
To me, it seems there is still a massive mountain of debt which is still not accounted for.
Bailing out the banks in 2007/8 didn’t resolve the issue and just swept the debt under a different carpet.
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
Looked over the first 40 or so pages of the thread. Not a bad read of an historical event.

I'm barely mobile, tubes out, and eating solids now. Off sick for maybe 3 more days. They did a few proceedures. Got about 5 holes... drains and laparoscopy access.
Pathology should come back in a week. Coughing is an adventure now. Weirdly the old pains are gone, but there is New and Improved pain.

This is the end of my active contribution to the Engineers. Too wrecked to make anything now. Here's hoping nobody in the surgery had Covid...
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Robin of Spiritwood said:
Looked over the first 40 or so pages of the thread. Not a bad read of an historical event.

I'm barely mobile, tubes out, and eating solids now. Off sick for maybe 3 more days. They did a few proceedures. Got about 5 holes... drains and laparoscopy access.
Pathology should come back in a week. Coughing is an adventure now. Weirdly the old pains are gone, but there is New and Improved pain.

This is the end of my active contribution to the Engineers. Too wrecked to make anything now. Here's hoping nobody in the surgery had Covid...
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I don't really understand your post.

Have you had the Covid ? Were you seriously ill ? Did you inject the virus to test a vaccine ?

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Synkreto

Synkreto
Dr. Maria van Kerkhoeve, when asked about serological studies and prevalence in different countries, during WHO media briefing on Monday, Mai 11th.2020:

[...]we have a long way to go, with this Virus, because the Virus has more people that can be infected . Having said that, we have the tools in our toolbox to be able to prevent this Virus from taking off again .

And we know that that's about finding the Virus, finding people with the Virus, isolating them, caring for them approprietly depending on their symptoms, making sure that we find all contacts, we trace those contacts, quarantine them so they don't have the opportunity to transmit further, make sure our populations is FULLY engaged so that know how they can protect themselves and how they can protect others .[...]"
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In essence, WHO has said this for weeks now . Weeks . It is SO simple . It is very clear .

I really, REALLY wonder how people all around the world can still not GET this . How entire Countries still ignore this . How so many people can get involved and engaged in all kinds of other issues SURROUNDING the Pandemic....but simply fail to LOOK the Pandemic STRAIGHT into the eyes, and fight it .

question at (43:25)
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v39Re7kzOpQ


p.s.: It is also really adviseable to listen to Dr. Ryan's words, answering to the same question .
 
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Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Synkreto said:
Dr. Maria van Kerkhoeve, when asked about serological studies and prevalence in different countries, during WHO media briefing on Monday, Mai 11th.2020:



In essence, WHO has said this for weeks now . Weeks . It is SO simple . It is very clear .

I really, REALLY wonder how people all around the world can still not GET this . How entire Countries still ignore this . How so many people can get involved and engaged in all kinds of other issues SURROUNDING the Pandemic....but simply fail to LOOK the Pandemic STRAIGHT into the eyes, and fight it .

question at (43:25)
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v39Re7kzOpQ


p.s.: It is also really adviseable to listen to Dr. Ryan's words, answering to the same question .
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Very just.

In this regard, I find that the Russians are efficient for screening, because for the past few days, they have been detecting more than 10 000 cases of infections every day.

They have to date 232 243 cases of contamination (more than the United Kingdom).

Russia now displays more than 5.8 million tests to date.

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