The SCB (Shield Cell Bank) Thread

SCBs resolve the linear shield regen. Do they resolve it well, no? No they do not. Not even close.

I'm for balance and finding ways to improve a mechanic; not just ripping entire elements out of the game, in isolation, assuming this will somehow solve the issue (hint: it absolutely never has). Also play the ball, not the person. I don't agree with some viewpoints. But I can understand where they come from.
I've never advocated tossing them either, every time I brainstorm and test my hypothesis the best sollution seem's to be a 1 SCB limit and no ammo limit for it to compensate(and all that other good stuff mentioned about them charging from SYS etc.).
 
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I've never advocated tossing them either, every time I brainstorm and test my hypothesis the best sollution seem's to be a 1 SCB limit and no ammo limit for it to compensate(and all that other good stuff mentioned about them charging from SYS etc.).

Pretty much on the same page. I'm not sure a dedicated slot for a single type of module works, as this is a pretty big change for what is ostensibly a quick-fix for the original shield regen changes; but defo agree on the recharge and use mechanic. You would think a capacitor, would act like one, rather than chomping on ammunition.

If it goes through SYS to charge, and then discharge, it's entirely limited to shields and systems. What if it could discharge anywhere (engines, weapons)?
 
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SCB's in CQC are one thing, SCB's in Open and PVE are another. CQC is about equal footing, fast paced action... So you need to have a much more balance approach. In Open and PVE you have different careers requiring different setups and loadouts. Balance is going to be completely different. Open should not be an equal playing fields. I mean you wouldnt want a Learjet being able to down an F-22 would you.. of course not.. it would be utterly ridiculous.. hilarious for sure, but ridiculous... And you can apply the same logic here. Its like the learjet complaining the F-22 has chaff and flares while the learjet has... umm... coffee cups and towels...

Open and PVE is more about learning to pick your fights you can win, and avoiding the ones you cant. It should never be a place where everyone has equal footing.. it just wouldnt work.

That being said, sometimes certain ships and systems have a distinct advantage that makes them OP, in which case an adjustment should be made. But SCB staking, personally, is not making the Ship OP.. it is making it combat specific compromising cargo space, and power management. It is a tactical decision.

With the greatest respect (and I do respect who I'm talking to, I've seen your guides on the tube and they are very informative with a concise approach), but my refering to shield cell banks was not in CQC (something the Sidewinder needs incidently in CQC, being the tank of CQC, with little maneuverability and power issues compared to the others), but I was refereing to the use of SCBs in the main game (Open). The problem becomes apparent in PvP (PvE you do indeed have an argument, not sure how this can be addressed individually), but in PvP with the ability to stack these cell banks has massively favoured the larger vessels capable of doing it.

My argument was concerning the "balance" of each ship's capability compared to each other. Before we had SCBs (back in beta when the developers were presumably making the difference between all the craft as "balanced" as possible), these smaller variety at least had a small chance, perhaps slim yes but a chance none the less of at least doing some damage to a larger craft if you used your ship's agility advantage to the maximum. Now with the advent of SCB stacking, this original balance has been lost to the point the smaller craft (and like I say, perhaps even something as capable as a Vulture for instance) even this now has little to no chance of even scratching the surface of the big tanky vessels with all their internals filled with many a shield cell.

We can use comparisons with real life aircraft and whatnot all day, and with respect again, it's a little pointless though I do understand why you are, and.. I would never suggest under normal circumtances a Sidewinder or Eagle should be able to take out a large Anaconda for instance, but.. it shouldn't be absolutely impossible (like it wasn't back in beta, it was extremely hard but with a bit (perhaps lots) of luck and skill it was at least possible). Perhaps players, the community or even Frontier now believe it should be impossible, but this "Sidey/Eagle vs" is the most extreme example, perhaps a Sidey or Eagle taking out a Conda is a bit ludicrous, but... even such capable crafts like a Vulture or Courier still has little to no chance of even scratching the surface of a craft such as the Python/Anaconda with all these shield potions on-board.

Perhaps this is what the balance of the game has become now and is/was Frontier's intention all along, but I'm simply going on the fundamental mechanics that seemed quite well balanced back in beta before these SCBs were introduced.

Shield cell banks per se are a welcome addition, but unfortunately a consequence of their implementation as an internal slot module has favoured the larger combat vessel over the smaller one that has absolutely no chance now and can't keep up, thus the resulting mechanics are far from what they used to be back in beta.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm simply worried that ALL small vessels (Vulture again included in this bracket really) are going to become stepping stones and superfluos to requirements as they are simply incapable of taking on the super tanks at all with all these shield potions fitted. Are the ships just going to get bigger and bigger, with little combat use of even the mid range with few internals? A concerning thought in my opinion if something isn't adjusted to reclaim some of the original beta balance.
 
Best limitation for them, would be reducing just the advantage of having more internal comparements to stock them:
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Proposal:
Give them a Cooldown after activation: When they are powered, they need to load up their available Charges (still using amunition) before they can be used.
This limits the usefullness of just hoarding them, but not having the energy resources to keep them all powered, without making them less usefull themself.
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So People would have only that amount of SCBs available for a running combat what they can actually power (because enabling an unpowered one takes as long as charging your shield for the same amount).
This would limit the usefullness of multiple stored, redundant SCBs to "not having to go back to reload right after one fight"
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This might need some further adjustments to the Combat Vessels, as they are usually on the hard end of powerissues, so running SCBs unpowered until needed is kinda Standard for them (Vulture comes into mind really quick).
I would go for a military type of reactor for these ships, that gives some extra power just for internal comparements (Game terms: reducing the power draw of anything stored in internal comparements - like 0,5 MJ per sizecategory of the reactor) this would not fiddle with the over all balance of the ships, as Weapons, Utilitypoints and SubSystems still use the same amount of energy but would give a Vulture 2MJ extra for internal Comparements, enough "internal Energy" to keep one SCB running, while staying the same ship for the rest of the layout as before.
Same goes for FdL, Viper etc.
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Just my 2cents
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Cheers
Nuit
 
Pretty much on the same page. I'm not sure a dedicated slot for a single type of module works, as this is a pretty big change for what is ostensibly a quick-fix for the original shield regen changes; but defo agree on the recharge and use mechanic. You would think a capacitor, would act like one, rather than chomping on ammunition.

If it goes through SYS to charge, and then discharge, it's entirely limited to shields and systems. What if it could discharge anywhere (engines, weapons)?

A dedicated slot doesn't fix half the problem that there is no decision to be made on whether to use SCB's or to use something else to provide a different advantage. You're just conceding that all ships should have SCB's, which reduces variety in the fitting options. Putting SCB's in utility slots where they have to compete with other defensive modules for functionality and effectiveness based upon the player's playstyle adds variety to fitting options if SCB's are summarily balanced.

Ammo was put on SCB's to force players to leave the field occasionally to go re-arm. This is an intended mechanic, combat is supposed to cost finite resources and resource management is a part of combat. Unlimited SCB charges just makes it so that savvy players can farm indefinitely, and takes one of the problems with SCB's to a whole new level.
 
I literally ran out of ammo trying to break through a battle conda's SCBs in my FAS the other day. 200 Plasma rounds and 60 railgun shots later, he still had full shields and several banks remaining. How exactly would being a better pilot help?

Too much high alpha. Not enough sustained damage

Burst damage is crap against SCBs. However keeping the pressure on with lasers makes them die before recharge if you can keep the heat on.

Is this the issue? That all the rail toting pvp badmen don't have enough sustainable dps to get through a couple of banks. Especially when you get a visual prompt that it's happening.

As soon as you see the scb pop. Increase damage and push through, it's really not that hard is it?

Aw
 
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Too much high alpha. Not enough sustained damage

Burst damage is crap against SCBs. However keeping the pressure on with lasers makes them die before recharge if you can keep the heat on.

Is this the issue? That all the rail toting pvp badmen don't have enough sustainable dps to get through a couple of banks. Especially when you get a visual prompt that it's happening.

As soon as you see the scb pop. Increase damage and push through, it's really not that hard is it?

Aw

Nice to see you have absolutely no experience in how to break the tank of SCB stacking players. Rails and PA's are perfect for the task, along with a little ramming. Learn a little before you criticize something out of your field of knowledge, it's less embarrassing.
 
Nice to see you have absolutely no experience in how to break the tank of SCB stacking players. Rails and PA's are perfect for the task, along with a little ramming. Learn a little before you criticize something out of your field of knowledge, it's less embarrassing.

This. The problem is that the strategy of Cmdr Wulffen would totally work in PvE. But players have figured out that you can easily abuse the SCB mechanic and stack 2 or 3 SCBs, thus making sustained laser damage ridiculously ineffective. The SCBs pump energy into the shields faster than a couple of beams could deplete them. Its just plain broken at the moment.

On a sidenote: I was killed by a Cmdr running multiple Hammers yesterday. Man, these things do amazing shield damage and seem to be a viable counter to a small degree of SCB stacking (at least on my FDL and with my modest skill level). A pity these bad boys are not available to people who don't Powerplay.
 
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This. The problem is that the strategy of Cmdr Wulffen would totally work in PvE. But players have figured out that you can easily abuse the SCB mechanic and stack 2 or 3 SCBs, thus making sustained laser damage ridiculously ineffective. The SCBs pump energy into the shields faster than a couple of beams could deplete them. Its just plain broken at the moment.

On a sidenote: I was killed by a Cmdr running multiple Hammers yesterday. Man, these things do amazing shield damage and seem to be a viable counter to a small degree of SCB stacking (at least on my FDL and with my modest skill level). A pity these bad boys are not available to people who don't Powerplay.


Powerplay weapons don't take a lot of effort to acquire, just time. Join a power, wait 3 weeks while you ignore having ever pledged to anything, spend a few hours getting 1000 merits, buy your weapons and defect to the next one you want equipment from on the fourth.
 
Powerplay weapons don't take a lot of effort to acquire, just time. Join a power, wait 3 weeks while you ignore having ever pledged to anything, spend a few hours getting 1000 merits, buy your weapons and defect to the next one you want equipment from on the fourth.

Ah, interesting. I might try that when I feel in the mood to build a dedicated PvP ship. Thanks :)
 
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Don't worry about SCBs, in 1.5 you can fit only one to your ship :)

Did the devs make a statement about this recently? I usually follow their communication quite closely but I seem to have missed that. Could you link to the source please? :)
 
Don't worry about SCBs, in 1.5 you can fit only one to your ship :)

Is this right? The ultimate equaliser. Then we move on to shield boosters yes? Maybe higher heat load would have been better

I'm hardly embarrassed by not getting the difference, skill is then most certainly a part of SCBs as not everyone is able to use them with impunity. I have yet to be instanced with someone unable to drop my own shield when I'm using banks. Maybe I'm just not that good.

On the flip side I must be interdicted by the unskilled because I've normally found that some well timed high damage can usually get through a shield chug.
 
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No SCBS on ships like Conda or Python, = instantly dead ship in PVP. You know when your the slowest/biggest ship on the field and your focus fired by 3 or more player commanders, you are dead. You can't run, you can't hide and you can't jump.
 
No SCBS on ships like Conda or Python, = instantly dead ship in PVP. You know when your the slowest/biggest ship on the field and your focus fired by 3 or more player commanders, you are dead. You can't run, you can't hide and you can't jump.
As I've said before, focus firing in wing PvP is a real problem but SCBs aren't the solution. Especially since your shields can be alpha'd down by competent pilots anyway.

We need modules for tanking extreme fire while limiting your mobility and offensive abilities
 
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No SCBS on ships like Conda or Python, = instantly dead ship in PVP. You know when your the slowest/biggest ship on the field and your focus fired by 3 or more player commanders, you are dead. You can't run, you can't hide and you can't jump.

That's a fairly broad statement you're making here. Can you elaborate? I only have one SCB in my Python and one on my Anaconda. I lost about half my PvP and won about half. Yeah, maybe if I had a full stack I would have won all of them but I'm fine where I am. I still think that too much SCB is not good for the game's health...

EDIT: and if you're interdicted by a wing, just get the hell out of there! Not very hard on a Python, a little more challenging on an Anaconda. But with a few shield boosters and one stack of SCB, I bet you'd be able to get away.

I docked in a Federation station yesterday with my Anaconda. I was hostile in that system. There were 3 dangerous Vipers and a multitude of F6F Condor waiting for me at the exit of the station. I boosted just before getting to the slot and did boost until I was able to charge my FSD. With 2 shield boosters and an A5 prismatic shield generator, I lost one ring on my shields before I was jumping out. So, you can escape, it's doable with only one SCB (which I didn't have to use, btw).
 
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1v1 or 4v4 ? these are different beasts altogether as far as PvP is concerned...

An anconda will not survive focused fire by 4 ships in a coordinated manner with only one bank, unless he starts to flee immediatly.
 
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