Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Robert Maynard]

Exactly why there is no need for an 'Open PVE' mode.

I would disagree with that.

The only truly Open access mode is the default mode where PvP happens. As long as there is no Open-PvE mode then there will be those who want the benefits of a truly Open game mode who use Open (but would prefer to play in Open-PvE) - thus providing additional targets for the PvP players in Open.

 

[Roybe]

Those poor traders and their precious cargo. Time to start the forum threadnaught crusade for PVP removal.

I already did...a few months ago...to show the PVP folks how stupid silly it sounds. Just as stupid silly as the 'force everyone to Open', reward everyone for 'Open'. I think the point was missed though.

 

[Mouse]

Sir, you take things way too personally sometimes. Im not calling you a "nobody". I am saying that 95% of the people that play these games dont enjoy fighting vs bots. It isnt as challenging, and it isnt as competitive. Not your cup of tea, as you have stated, but I doesnt have to be, and its not an insult, so stop trying to interpret it as such.



Because NPC's are not dynamic. I want my target to be thinking of ways to outsmart me, or out pilot me. People are smart, and they play smart. NPC piracy is extremely boring and very often, not worth the time it takes to make the interdiction.

I wasn't taking it personally and did not see it as an insult. You missed what I was trying to say. And yes I use myself as an example a lot, because I know me best. SO when people say that no one does things and I know for a fact that I do.. I pipe up and say so.

You said that no one plays these games to fight bots.. so I was showing that that comment was incorrect. Making sweeping generalizations like that are usually wholly wrong because people do things for different reasons. I also have to disagree with your "statistics" or at least I would love to know the data where you extrapolated your points from that gave you a 95% towards people not enjoying fighting bots.. since the estimated population of solo that I have heard was between 1/4 to 1/2 of the total population of ED that throws your 95% as a highly questionable statistic. Since Fdev haven't given any hard numbers that means your 95% is just your opinion and not a true representation of why people play the game.


And NPC's may not be dynamic for you, but they are dynamic for other people.. One's hardship or easiness against NPCs is not flat across the board.

I will agree that NPC pirating can be boring.. many of us have said before they need to vastly increase the cargo and types of cargo of NPC traders.

But if you were to pirate me.. you may get lucky and get some Imp Slaves, or if I am doing a Hutton Run.. some mugs, but mostly you would be getting bio waste, food cartridges, clothing, Maybe equipment of different types. Because while I love trading, I tend to role play it and tend to take realistic things as if I was supplying one station from another.



Edit thanks for the well wishes of good luck. Am out till later. Then maybe I can try Horizons finally now.. or Fallout 4 ^,^

 

[Toxic_Waster]

You are correct, unwanted scenarios are core part of games but your Apple and oranging it I feel

if you are in Battlefield, COD, War Thunder (except for custom and scenario games) you are purposely playing PVP.

If you are playing ED, unless you are in CQC, you are not. PVP is a choosable unwanted Scenario..


A new player just going into open.. usually has no real clue to the scenario they just got themselves into. They are learning about the game and flying their ship. Suddenly an A rated decked out Python shows up. They may not even know that a hollow blip means another player. And suddenly with no interaction between them.. the python nukes em.

For the Python it was wanted interaction.. they got what they desire. For the newbie in the starter Sidy.. some have left the game entirely because they assume that the encounter they just had is the norm and an NPC character and it is wholly undesirable. Others have left knowing it was a player and deploring the kind of interaction. Some came back because by coming to the forums and voicing their frustration they learned of other options.

To just toss aside people's issues with unwanted pvp by claiming it is essential to the game ( as I feel your opinion is though I could be off base) . I disagree entirely. I don't want PVE /pvp flags.. but I do want clear choices for players when they join the game. Which is why I advocate for 2 Opens.. clearly marked PVP and PVE so people make a better informed decision and don't leave the game. Heck maybe even a "list of the top 10 private parties and what they are about.. to give a better understanding to new players.

Open world MMO in most cases implies that there will be non-consensual PVP. There are some exceptions of course, but I disagree if most players join not expecting PVP to happen.

ED learning curve is steep. However, what some people find discouraging other people find appealing. I personally like detailed complicated games not locked to the linear quest scenario. Dying to the superior ship is the learning experience. And for every losing party it's the unwanted outcome regardless if they're in sidey or conda. As for the losing party leaving the game it's the questionable statement. What makes some leave makes others join. I believe PVP factor in ED is one of the main game attraction.

"Some came back because by coming to the forums and voicing their frustration they learned of other options." - this is the good one. Expressing frustration on the game forum regarding some lost pixels tells a lot about the person. I don't know if you noticed, but there is a big number of people complaining about getting killed by NPC as well. And I stand firm on what I previously said: catering for such people requests will ruin the game.

 

[Roybe]

Open world MMO in most cases implies that there will be non-consensual PVP. There are some exceptions of course, but I disagree if most players join not expecting PVP to happen.

ED learning curve is steep. However, what some people find discouraging other people find appealing. I personally like detailed complicated games not locked to the linear quest scenario. Dying to the superior ship is the learning experience. And for every losing party it's the unwanted outcome regardless if they're in sidey or conda. As for the losing party leaving the game it's the questionable statement. What makes some leave makes others join. I believe PVP factor in ED is one of the main game attraction.

"Some came back because by coming to the forums and voicing their frustration they learned of other options." - this is the good one. Expressing frustration on the game forum regarding some lost pixels tells a lot about the person. I don't know if you noticed, but there is a big number of people complaining about getting killed by NPC as well. And I stand firm on what I previously said: catering for such people requests will ruin the game, FOR ME.

Fixed that for whoever wrote it! It would be an improvement to the person requesting the change. There is no telling who is representative of the community. All I can say to this is that there are a lot more people in the 45-85 percentile, than the 95-100%. And that WOULD be two very different games. As every modern game development firm has found....again and again.

 

[Leto Thule]

I wasn't taking it personally and did not see it as an insult. You missed what I was trying to say. And yes I use myself as an example a lot, because I know me best. SO when people say that no one does things and I know for a fact that I do.. I pipe up and say so.

You said that no one plays these games to fight bots.. so I was showing that that comment was incorrect. Making sweeping generalizations like that are usually wholly wrong because people do things for different reasons. I also have to disagree with your "statistics" or at least I would love to know the data where you extrapolated your points from that gave you a 95% towards people not enjoying fighting bots.. since the estimated population of solo that I have heard was between 1/4 to 1/2 of the total population of ED that throws your 95% as a highly questionable statistic. Since Fdev haven't given any hard numbers that means your 95% is just your opinion and not a true representation of why people play the game.


And NPC's may not be dynamic for you, but they are dynamic for other people.. One's hardship or easiness against NPCs is not flat across the board.

I will agree that NPC pirating can be boring.. many of us have said before they need to vastly increase the cargo and types of cargo of NPC traders.

But if you were to pirate me.. you may get lucky and get some Imp Slaves, or if I am doing a Hutton Run.. some mugs, but mostly you would be getting bio waste, food cartridges, clothing, Maybe equipment of different types. Because while I love trading, I tend to role play it and tend to take realistic things as if I was supplying one station from another.



Edit thanks for the well wishes of good luck. Am out till later. Then maybe I can try Horizons finally now.. or Fallout 4 ^,^

Ok, well some of the replies to my posts sort of come off that way... like I am attacking you. Im not, just to clear that all up. Done.

My 95% comment wasnt about elite. It was about the expectations of players who play multiplayer games. No, its not a hard number. Yes, its going to be lots closer the the real % than people who fight bots.

Fallout 4 is fantastic. Great game... but it took some getting used to with the protagonist having a voice. Youll see what I mean as soon as you start playing. But its a great game. I get stuck for hours just making cities >.<

 

[Roybe]

What will be interesting to watch is the further dilution of the population down to planets...and how the Open=PVP crowd will react. This game is going to get a whole lot lonlier and a whole lot harder to find someone.

 

[Faded Glory]

Open world MMO in most cases implies that there will be non-consensual PVP. There are some exceptions of course, but I disagree if most players join not expecting PVP to happen.

ED learning curve is steep. However, what some people find discouraging other people find appealing. I personally like detailed complicated games not locked to the linear quest scenario. Dying to the superior ship is the learning experience. And for every losing party it's the unwanted outcome regardless if they're in sidey or conda. As for the losing party leaving the game it's the questionable statement. What makes some leave makes others join. I believe PVP factor in ED is one of the main game attraction.

"Some came back because by coming to the forums and voicing their frustration they learned of other options." - this is the good one. Expressing frustration on the game forum regarding some lost pixels tells a lot about the person. I don't know if you noticed, but there is a big number of people complaining about getting killed by NPC as well. And I stand firm on what I previously said: catering for such people requests will ruin the game.

I think ED might be an exception to the rule regarding people playing because it's a multi player game. As you know, this franchise has a long history, 30 years and three iterations of the game (now 4), and many people will be playing it because the loved the original(s). Some will relish the multiplayer aspect, some will not be interested and are looking for the game they used to play with todays graphics.

FD have made it so that these players as well as multi player fans can enjoy the game the way they want to. Yes, there are compromises, but no one faction will ruin the game as far as I can see.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Those poor traders and their precious cargo. Time to start the forum threadnaught crusade for PVP removal.

No need. I play exclusively in Solo, and many traders move to Solo rather rapidly after a bad experience in Open.

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All I can say to this is that there are a lot more people in the 45-85 percentile, than the 95-100%. And that WOULD be two very different games. As every modern game development firm has found....again and again.

All too true.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

No need. I play exclusively in Solo, and many traders move to Solo rather rapidly after a bad experience in Open.

There is still plenty of traders in Open. I heard the outcry that everyone will move to Solo a year ago. It didn't happen. Perhaps because players like to mix their occupation and don't mind a little spice in their trade runs.

 

[Roybe]

There is still plenty of traders in Open. I heard the outcry that everyone will move to Solo a year ago. It didn't happen. Perhaps because players like to mix their occupation and don't mind a little spice in their trade runs.

There are some. But not many. And many feel justified in logging off (and as long as they use the menu, are supported by the devs) before damage can occur...so, even more frustration for the PVP crowd. I still do not understand why the PVP crowd bothers with chasing anyone other than other PVP players...but, to each there own.

 

[relayer]

ninja'd by others

 

[Leto Thule]

I would disagree with that.

The only truly Open access mode is the default mode where PvP happens. As long as there is no Open-PvE mode then there will be those who want the benefits of a truly Open game mode who use Open (but would prefer to play in Open-PvE) - thus providing additional targets for the PvP players in Open.

So, you would kill my chosen profession to provide yet ONE MORE way for people to avoid me? Did your game cost more? Of course nobody is going to be willingly stopped and have their things stolen! Im a pirate! I dont want fights, I want cargo!

Who exactly do you think is going to play in PVP open mode after a PVE option goes live? I think the people asking for this are under the impression "pvp guys just want to slug it out all the time". I bought this game to hunt targets, drag them out of supercruise, and either take my earnings or blast them into oblivion, not find a "fair fight". Pirate, not fighter pilot!

 

[Toxic_Waster]

There are some. But not many. And many feel justified in logging off (and as long as they use the menu, are supported by the devs) before damage can occur...so, even more frustration for the PVP crowd. I still do not understand why the PVP crowd bothers with chasing anyone other than other PVP players...but, to each there own.

We can't really claim to be the absolute source of true ED statistic. All I can share is my personal observation. I come across human piloted haulers and T6s relatively often. T9s are the rare gem, but may be because at this level ppl prefer to trade in combat capable ships. Also I used to trade myself and only in Open. I died only once to a Cmdr in a trading ship due to the accidental collision during undocking. Now I make more credits with less risk by completing multiple missions. The change of mission system can also contribute to the reduction of traders.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So, you would kill my chosen profession to provide yet ONE MORE way for people to avoid me? Did your game cost more? Of course nobody is going to be willingly stopped and have their things stolen! Im a pirate! I dont want fights, I want cargo!

Offering players a choice is not personal.

There does not need to be an Open-PvE mode for player traders to decide to leave Open.

Denying PvE players an analogous mode to Open just because PvP players want unwilling prey would seem, to me at least, to be rather selfish....

 

[Roybe]

So, you would kill my chosen profession to provide yet ONE MORE way for people to avoid me? Did your game cost more? Of course nobody is going to be willingly stopped and have their things stolen! Im a pirate! I dont want fights, I want cargo!

This is the place where you are thinking improperly about this game. It is NOT BUILT to hunt players. It is built to hunt NPC's (and yes, the devs are not doing a good job here). It allows you to FIND players, occasionally. It allows you to join with others that you know and have friended. This game is defined by the devs desire to provide PVP between people by providing groups a way to outcollect PVE trophies between them. There is nothing else within this game that is rewarded by the game.

 

[Leto Thule]

Offering players a choice is not personal.

There does not need to be an Open-PvE mode for player traders to decide to leave Open.

Denying PvE players an analogous mode to Open just because PvP players want unwilling prey would seem, to me at least, to be rather selfish....

But its not selfish to want yet one more mode all to PVE only guys? You currently have a choice between solo, group, or open. You can avoid pirate players in solo mode, as well as group mode. Yet, thats not enough. Another mode is needed to be given the entire package, with no risk whatsoever. Thus killing the pirate profession. I am not arguing for you to be forced into open mode, so why cant you just use the tools you have instead of destroying the game for me?

Just one more nerf™.

This is the place where you are thinking improperly about this game. It is NOT BUILT to hunt players. It is built to hunt NPC's (and yes, the devs are not doing a good job here). It allows you to FIND players, occasionally. It allows you to join with others that you know and have friended. This game is defined by the devs desire to provide PVP between people by providing groups a way to outcollect PVE trophies between them. There is nothing else within this game that is rewarded by the game.

It certainly is built to hunt players AND NPC's. Im not looking, again, for rewards. I am looking to steal cargo. I dont think im a boss pilot, I dont care about my rank, and the developer has provided the tools AND made the statements on their website about me being able to hunt players. Its not an accident, or it would have been removed.. and you wouldnt see Dev posts saying things like "WE CONSIDER COMBAT LOGGING AN EXPLOIT". I understand you dont play that way, but stop trying to twist the facts by saying its not built for that when I clearly can do it. What its NOT built for, is OPEN PVE, because thats NOT HERE.

 

[Roybe]

But its not selfish to want yet one more mode all to PVE only guys? You currently have a choice between solo, group, or open. You can avoid pirate players in solo mode, as well as group mode. Yet, thats not enough. Another mode is needed to be given the entire package, with no risk whatsoever. Thus killing the pirate profession. I am not arguing for you to be forced into open mode, so why cant you just use the tools you have instead of destroying the game for me?

Just one more nerf™.

Killing Pirating <=> Removal of PC's from Open. That only hurts PVP...and generally, non-consensual PVP! What is killing pirating and bounty hunting is the lack of profitable NPC targets. Complaining about the proper problem will get the devs attention and fix the problem itself!

 

[AJW]

So, you would kill my chosen profession to provide yet ONE MORE way for people to avoid me? Did your game cost more? Of course nobody is going to be willingly stopped and have their things stolen! Im a pirate! I dont want fights, I want cargo!

Who exactly do you think is going to play in PVP open mode after a PVE option goes live? I think the people asking for this are under the impression "pvp guys just want to slug it out all the time". I bought this game to hunt targets, drag them out of supercruise, and either take my earnings or blast them into oblivion, not find a "fair fight". Pirate, not fighter pilot!

Am I misunderstanding you, or are you suggesting that your enjoyment of this game comes from pirating individuals who would, if they had the choice (and were aware of the option) would rather play in an environment where piracy by human players didn't occur?

 

[Robert Maynard]

But its not selfish to want yet one more mode all to PVE only guys? You currently have a choice between solo, group, or open. You can avoid pirate players in solo mode, as well as group mode. Yet, thats not enough. Another mode is needed to be given the entire package, with no risk whatsoever. Thus killing the pirate profession. I am not arguing for you to be forced into open mode, so why cant you just use the tools you have instead of destroying the game for me?

Just one more nerf™.

I doubt that all players who trade would move to an Open-PvE mode.

Similarly, I would expect that the precognitive statements regarding the imminent demise of player / player piracy would be somewhat inaccurate.