Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[[VR] Mad Mike]

To understand how this will be stopped requires a little bit of understanding how real player ships will be treated slightly differently to non-player ships. Players will automatically be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” and will be identified as such, together with their ranking and name. Bounties are paid by this Federation – something that is therefore much higher for those that kill other Federation members. It will be balanced so that this cannot be used as an exploit (so a beginner killing a beginner is taken less seriously than an Elite pilot killing a beginner – it will be based on the ranking difference).

There are four separate ways we will address this:

1. The offender will very quickly get a serious price on their head (bounty) and criminal record. That price on their head will attract bounty hunters.

2. Local police or military will respond very quickly and strongly to them.

3. It will be legitimate for other players to attack them for the attractive bounty without attracting a bounty for themselves, as once there is a bounty on their head they are officially a pirate and ‘free game’ for everyone.

4. If enough players complain about the offender's behaviour in a certain time, then they will be banned from this group

I do wish the whole actions and consequence actually worked properly like implied here

Let's not also forget that in some ways solo is harder than open. In solo some of the assassination missions and SSSs are practically impossible due to wings not working in solo. In open (or group) you can get help. I played exclusively in open till end of Feb (since gamma) and dies once (against ai dropship in my sidewinder) I have died 6 or 7 times since in mobius. By that reckoning the space station is the biggest killer in the game followed by the silent running / boost button combined with faulty flight stick and rogue voice attack .

 

[relayer]

I chose not to play EVE because I don't like guild heavy games where open is the only mode.
I chose to play ED because I like to have the option of playing guild free games and solo when I feel like it.

I feel that many people who complain about open have an agenda - Guilds/control of spaces. It eases itself into many of the "we need to cure open" threads eventually, just as splitting the BGS does.

I quit EvE after a long run in it. I did not enjoy the way that it became. Guilds can form up a Private group, but they seem not to want that. Why? Back to the "we want confrontation" stance that leads toward "we want guilds" and then "we want to control the spaces with guilds."

 

[relayer]

I do love it, when people think they can state the Devs are "wrong".

Yes; I'd like to see such players raise some capital for a game design. Then they can design anyway they choose. Telling FD that they are wrong is just... wrong

Wonder if those same people like to proclaim water is not wet, the sun is not hot and the world is not a sphere, but it is in fact a disc, held by 4 huge elephants on the back of a giant turtle called "Great A'Tuin"

"You can't fool me, young man; it's turtles all the way down!"

- - - Updated - - -

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee449/7xu5/post galnet/image.jpg1.jpg~original

I expect that you posted this to focus on "definitive massively multiplayer space epic" & "a futuristic cutthroat galaxy"

You probably didn't post it for "every player's story influences gaming experience and evolving narrative."

 

[relayer]

Welcome back, Robert! I hope your vacation from the thread was enjoyable

 

[Mouse]

if you think the PP, dislikes, or does not work well, it is simple, do not use it. But if you want to use it you should always use it in open, unless you want PP, you are free to go in solo or in open, or not to play.

Why should people have to work only in open for PP? Where in PP is there PVP?? The answer is, there is no place in PP that there is PVP. PP is an election, it is shadow play, there is no direct confrontation.

What you don't understand is your premise for the game is flawed.


This is a PvE game that lets you PvP - it is NOT a PvP game.
So it is not "but also WANT that their actions have an impact on pvp" - PvP is OPTIONAL not mandatory in Elite: Dangerous.


All in game mechanics are designed and balanced around PvE. Once you accept that, you may understand what my link, to my Wall of Information is about.

^This^

I just think solo mode should make the AI better and the ships stronger. This gives the feel that while there's less player pirates and the like you still have the hardships you'd face in open. The more people are encouraged to just stay in open play the better the game will be. I feel like every time I ask if people are doing community goals or anything its "ya I do that in solo so its easier" which just ruins the feel of the game. While obviously I don't want the game to feel crowded and get interdicted every second I like the idea of a universe where you at least see one person where you go and not just a bunch of automated ships saying "I gotta flee here" or "stay and fight!" repeating over and over again.
I like the option of solo but right now it just seems like its cheating...

I find it interesting.. you keep saying "you". You like the idea of the universe where you meet others, you don't like meeting just a bunch of automated ships. What you fail to realize is not everyone is You. And The AI Goddess is constantly tweaking them, but she has to maintain a balance otherwise new players will be severely disadvantaged as soon as they come out of the barn. As for myself I struggle with the ones we have no. Many times it is a 50/50 chance on if I win a engagement.

no exactly, I can die by a player in open. and you in solo?

You are mistaking game mechanics for rules. As a matter of fact, if somehow something glitched and another player ened up in someone else's solo game they COULD die by a player.

Yes, i deliberately missed that. On the official website i expect genuine information. If i want to be lied to marketing brainwash i watch announcement and launch trailers....and possibly gameshow CGIs.

At no point did FD lie on their official website, you took what you wanted and interpreted what they said in a way that you felt was right than complained when reality smacked you in the face that your premesis was false. If anything you lied to yourself.

I feel that many people who complain about open have an agenda - Guilds/control of spaces. It eases itself into many of the "we need to cure open" threads eventually, just as splitting the BGS does.

I quit EvE after a long run in it. I did not enjoy the way that it became. Guilds can form up a Private group, but they seem not to want that. Why? Back to the "we want confrontation" stance that leads toward "we want guilds" and then "we want to control the spaces with guilds."

They can create a private group and make two "guilds" in it and have their own private war, but they don't want to put the effort into it. Yet some expect FD to instead.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why should people have to work only in open for PP? Where in PP is there PVP?? The answer is, there is no place in PP that there is PVP. PP is an election, it is shadow play, there is no direct confrontation.

I'm such a child, but I found this funny when I read it out loud in my head.

 

[Mouse]

I'm such a child, but I found this funny when I read it out loud in my head.

hehe, Hadn't noticed that

 

[Scudmungus]

''Infinite freedom'' be, in noooo way, hyping tings up.

 

[Lann]

I think the solo/group/open modes are the best option frontier could find.

I mean, sometimes i want to be relaxed. So i play solo. Sometimes i want some pvp so i play open. And sometimes i dont care which mode to play, so i play open or group or solo.

Why is this a bad idea? Because some players cant pew pew me when they want? Well, the game is like it is, so perhaps it isnt their game...

 

[why fi at all]

I do not quite understand that you are so afraid, but as usually happens, seems to be founded on ignorance.

My irony sensor just went off the chart

i thought that was just a tremor on a local fault till i read that same message, and mine too let out a burst of smoke and flame.
then i come to your reply.

i will now go off topic for a moment and mention what we all already know and that is that we seem to spend more time discussing how we are discussing this topic than we are discussing the topic.
i am guilty of this every time i am astounded and then comment on what astounded me.

my astonishment is never "oh WOW, that was a new point of view on this issue".

it's more like "how on gods green earth can this idea be making the rounds again?".

- - - Updated - - -

Cheating is cheating. Cheaters should be banned. Me running diagnostics or capacity tests on my own equipment is my own business.

pitching or catching, it's still baseball.

 

[why fi at all]

I'm such a child, but I found this funny when I read it out loud in my head.

damn you!

and a plus one rep to you too.

 

[why fi at all]

i'll make an obvious statement since we seem to be getting close but not quite addressing it.

it's called OPEN/GROUP/SOLO.

it's NOT called PVP/GROUP/SOLO.

you don't want it compared to eve, and truly it's not like eve.
however it's more difficult to compare it to LOTRO.

eve was fun in the early days.
when we would get a day with a peak of 2500 players, it was fun.
then it went to peaks of 5K, and we were thrilled.
time went on and they dumned down the learning curve to play the game.
the daily peaks went higher and higher.
it was fun.

then things got too easy and people thought that no restrictions on actions meant "it's helter skelter time".

i don't need to tell the story from there, you either know it, or you don't want to hear it.

i think the three modes here are an excellent way to deal with the madhouse that so many MMO's seem to have become.

i mention the progression of player count in eve because this game is still in the very very early stages of what i hope is a long run.
the helter skelter faction is developed enough [i originally typed in mature enough but thought better of it] that it can move into an new MMO very quickly.
and it does.
we see that here.
the three modes we see here are an idea that excels at dealing with this.

what needs to happen is that time passes and enough HS crew get involved to populate open, and they will devour each other over and over again.
it's just a matter of time, although they will still want fresh meat in their mode that they will eventually dominate, and we can expect a tempest in a teacup to rage on and on.

we need to remind each other and new players that the game is noticeably bigger than a teacup.

the expressed concern for PP actions taken in modes other than open is a ruse/spoon.
it's there to give the appearance of legitimacy to their cause, and no other reason.
pay it no mind.

 

[Jockey79]

Right, as there is some crossover here with modes....

http://www.twitch.tv/lasulli/v/9696769

This is the new way of earning credits (even explorers can magically make use of this while in the black).
Please note the lack of rebuy screen or any insurance payout.

So, no outgoings, no "risk" of loss - but it's going to be set up to earn credits for your main Open Mode game.
Even in Solo Mode, if you die you still have to pay out on insurance .

So in a few months, PvP will be the "Easy Mode" / "Cheat Mode" where unstoppable ghosts earn credits in their private little group.

[On a more serious note, this does look cool, and I am glad explorers can make use of it no matter where they are - the comment was just to make a point]

 

[Dave1235]

My irony sensor just went off the chart

LOL sod your sensor, I had an A7 irony module fitted, I think the overload may have destroyed a few planets .

 

[infamousX]

I'm such a child, but I found this funny when I read it out loud in my head.

lol, you're bad.

 

[relayer]

then things got too easy and people thought that no restrictions on actions meant "it's helter skelter time".

Good song for this debate:

When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again

the three modes we see here are an idea that excels at dealing with this.

definitely repped.

- - - Updated - - -

So in a few months, PvP will be the "Easy Mode" / "Cheat Mode" where unstoppable ghosts earn credits in their private little group.

AH.. hahahahahahaha! I c wut u did ther. Have some bacon!

 

[Jockey79]

....Have some bacon!

I think I will;

[video=youtube_share;IJGFY6oym_M]https://youtu.be/IJGFY6oym_M[/video]

 

[Stigbob]

I think I will;

https://youtu.be/IJGFY6oym_M

You forgot the black pudding you heathen.

 

[Mouse]

I think I will;

https://youtu.be/IJGFY6oym_M

Need to post that here ^,^ https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172118

 

[lyravega]

I don't think E will be truly dynamic

Let me explain what I mean by static and dynamic first. Dynamic: you can actively contribute to something, and see the results immediately. Static: all contributions are logged, and the outcome is determined at a specific time, nothing changes in the meantime so to speak. In lame terms, this game is more like sync'd turn based game rather than a real time one.

A conflict zone for example, nothing changes as long as you are there. If you leave and you were the only one there, the instance is closed, and it is recreated when you get back there. It isn't the same battle anymore. Capital ships are there only for posterity, they're more of a stationary turret battery and nothing more.

Or powerplay. Everything we do is logged on an "excel sheet" or someting, and only matters at the end of the cycles. If a system is under heavy undermining, you don't see the security on alert in there.

There are more examples, but I'm going to cut it here. The main idea of the topic is, I don't think we'll ever get any events where you jump into a conflict zone and see one side is already tearing up the other, even if you are the first player there. We won't see any border skirmishes, or effects that last a very short time, or a battle suddenly changing direction, etc...

The main reason for that is, in my opinion, having multiple instances of one galaxy. I'm talking about solo/private/open modes. If we only had open for example, such events / changes / etc... may be possible, but due to the reason I've written above, I don't think it is possible. And I think it is the prime reason why the game is built like this, a restriction that trying to please different crowds at the same time have put on the game. I don't know. That's how I feel right now. Most of the stuff in the game is feels lifeless, aimless, and only there for posterity.