Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Mohrgan]

No, sorry, but there is way less risk in solo. The lack of player interaction of any kind ensures that.

As for me: That's my point. If you don't want that interaction then you should be isolated from it. That means separating the open and solo universes entirely. I call people cowards because of their common excuses for moving into solo, not because they play solo. If you're running away from the slight chance of some PVP then yes, you are a coward... and a bit paranoid too actually given the low amount of PVP that's actually witnessed by the average open player. Hell, I've only gotten into PVP unwillingly once and it actually was just fine - the guy was honorable, I did what he said and he let me go after a brief chat about the game.

The idea that they're privy to the same amount of influence as me is downright ignorant. They do not take the same risks. They are sheltered and because of that, they are not participating in the open experience and shouldn't be given the same privileges. In fact, open should have lower bounties just to make that lower risk make sense and to keep people from hopping into solo anytime they don't feel like playing with the rest of us.

So, there's more risk in open, but there is a low amount of PvP in open. Don't you see a contraction there? The tiny amount of extra risk that may be found in open is the reward you get for playing in open.

Open is for people looking for PvP, nothing more. It is not the basis of the game. Besides bounties, what content has FD introduced that rewards, or even encourages PvP? PP has zero connection to PvP. You don't ever get rewards for downing a Cmdr. Why do you think that is?

There is just one galaxy, we all share it, and we all deserve the same credit for input to the entirely PvE BSG, and PP systems. The modes simply allow for players to to individually control who they play the game with. Accepting everyone, and anyone into your game world doesn't entitle you to greater consideration in game. Open is simply one of the three matchmaking modes. Open simply has to get over itself, most everyone else has.

 

[Karl Marx]

So, there's more risk in open, but there is a low amount of PvP in open. Don't you see a contraction there? The tiny amount of extra risk that may be found in open is the reward you get for playing in open.

Open is for people looking for PvP, nothing more. It is not the basis of the game. Besides bounties, what content has FD introduced that rewards, or even encourages PvP? PP has zero connection to PvP. You don't ever get rewards for downing a Cmdr. Why do you think that is?

There is just one galaxy, we all share it, and we all deserve the same credit for input to the entirely PvE BSG, and PP systems. The modes simply allow for players to to individually control who they play the game with. Accepting everyone, and anyone into your game world doesn't entitle you to greater consideration in game. Open is simply one of the three matchmaking modes. Open simply has to get over itself, most everyone else has.

"Don't you see a contraction there?" - No, I do not. Risk is risk and open has more of it.

"Open is for people looking for PvP, nothing more." - Funny, I don't look for PVP and I play open exclusively. Huh.

"There is just one galaxy" - correct. At least in theory - not in practice. Again, it's like having an alternate universe that influences this one we all live in - that makes no logical sense.

 

[Mohrgan]

"Don't you see a contraction there?" - No, I do not. Risk is risk and open has more of it.

"Open is for people looking for PvP, nothing more." - Funny, I don't look for PVP and I play open exclusively. Huh.

"There is just one galaxy" - correct. At least in theory - not in practice. Again, it's like having an alternate universe that influences this one we all live in - that makes no logical sense.

Spook: I'm ex military. Don't even try lecturing me on bravery.

We see things differently.

The contradiction is in the rare PvP and the risk that's involved. Everyone else sees it. You must have trouble with willful ignorance. The measly difference warrants no consideration.

I will from now on describe it as 'willing to PvP" if you want to mince words, with you any way. Why should the many be expected to succumb to the gamer ethics of the few?

In practice, and in fact. You, want to create a separation, where none exists in the game. It is only in your head. You choose to see a barrier between the modes, where the Dev's don;t intend one.

If you can tell the difference between real life and pixels, brave and coward you might choose your words better. My pixels fear no one.

 

[Karl Marx]

We see things differently.

The contradiction is in the rare PvP and the risk that's involved. Everyone else sees it. You must have trouble with willful ignorance. The measly difference warrants no consideration.

I will from now on describe it as 'willing to PvP" if you want to mince words, with you any way. Why should the many be expected to succumb to the gamer ethics of the few?

In practice, and in fact. You, want to create a separation, where none exists in the game. It is only in your head. You choose to see a barrier between the modes, where the Dev's don;t intend one.

If you can tell the difference between real life and pixels, brave and coward you might choose your words better. My pixels fear no one.

PVP carries with it risk. Being able to be involved in PVP carries risk. If you or others ignore that, that's on you. Granted, the risk is minimal if you have the slightest clue about what you're doing, but the risk does exist.

I want to ensure that the types of players that want to be a part of a larger group can and those that want to be separate from the group while still reaping the benefits are cut off from it. Why? Because their contributions lack the same dedication to the group and living with those that make the group something real. I'm sorry if that somehow offends you. Actually, I'm really not.

 

[Mouse]

Spook: I'm ex military. Don't even try lecturing me on bravery.

Karl Marx You served, thank you for your service to which ever country you served, but from your comments I have no respect for you for serving. For if you served and think people playing a game in solo are cowards then you did not learn anything during your service and have no real clue as to what cowards or bravery are. I highly doubt you saw combat, you sound too much like the vet I had to deal with who chastised other vets for having signs notifying neighbors that they had PTSD and to please be considerate around the 4th of July. He called them weak, cowards, and claimed they made all vets look like pansies. He was all macho like you are and had NEVER LEFT THE STATES during his service! He's bullying those who HAD served in combat because of the "image" he wanted to project as a vet. This machoistic crap is sickening we are here to play a game, not engage in virtual epeen contests.

You want to pvp or no then go for it, you want to play in open, go for it, that is why the modes are there so that you can choose where you want to play. But you have NO RIGHT what so ever to view others as cowards. You are not brave, I have known brave men and women who served, too many sadly I even had to bury. You are nothing but an internet bully hiding behind a computer screen name.

SSgt. [Redacted by request] USAF (Ret.)

PVP carries with it risk. Being able to be involved in PVP carries risk. If you or others ignore that, that's on you. Granted, the risk is minimal if you have the slightest clue about what you're doing, but the risk does exist.

I want to ensure that the types of players that want to be a part of a larger group can and those that want to be separate from the group while still reaping the benefits are cut off from it. Why? Because their contributions lack the same dedication to the group and living with those that make the group something real. I'm sorry if that somehow offends you. Actually, I'm really not.

Solo carries risk, every mode of the game carries risk as soon as you leave a station There is risk EVERYWHERE. No one is "reaping more benefits" then others. And this macho crap of "Their contributions lack the same dedication to the group" Well you know what..they don't have to dedicate themselves to a group, they are dedicating to a game and their contribution means just as much as yours. Maybe more since they are doing it without a stick up their hind end.

 

[Mohrgan]

PVP carries with it risk. Being able to be involved in PVP carries risk. If you or others ignore that, that's on you. Granted, the risk is minimal if you have the slightest clue about what you're doing, but the risk does exist.

I want to ensure that the types of players that want to be a part of a larger group can and those that want to be separate from the group while still reaping the benefits are cut off from it. Why? Because their contributions lack the same dedication to the group and living with those that make the group something real. I'm sorry if that somehow offends you. Actually, I'm really not.

You even say the extra risk is 'minimal', your word. The minimal extra reward you get is to dance with another Cmdr. Problem solved. Exactly what risk is there in "shields down = High Wake out"? Anyone who knows about PvP, knows that you never have to loose your ship if you don;t want to. High wake, low wake, high wake, end of risk.

What benefit are we talking about? All the credits you earn from popping a Cmdr, who never pps if they have a clue, which is none without a bounty. The group doesn't offer any tangible rewards. The PvE activities built into the BGS, and PP do. A player in open turning in bounties in open is no different from one in group. It's still based on a PvE mechanism that can be completed just as easily in solo as it can in open. It takes the same amount of time, it takes the same amount of effort no matter where it's done.

This 'dedication to the group' concept that is the crux. Where does it say you have to show dedication to the group. On the contrary, the premise of the game is for a lone pilot to make their way in the galaxy. This dedication to open is your construct, not the games.

Why should one point of view, one set of gamer ethics dominate the player base? Open is one of three options to choose from. FD says you can decide who you play with. Where in the design of the game can you point to that says PvP is necessary to progress. What part of the BGS relies on popping a Cmdr? The difference here is between the stated approach of the game vs. your personal views.

I am not offended, just surprised. I have lived around people with different view points for many decades I am not offended when a stranger disagrees with me. ....off a ducks back. I just make my arguments as a way to educate new comers to this thread, and to leave no doubt that there are players that oppose your point of view, so FD doesn't get the idea that everyone thinks like you. Plus, I like to debate a bit, it's a weakness.

 

[the100thmonkey]

PVP carries with it risk. Being able to be involved in PVP carries risk. If you or others ignore that, that's on you. Granted, the risk is minimal if you have the slightest clue about what you're doing, but the risk does exist.

I want to ensure that the types of players that want to be a part of a larger group can and those that want to be separate from the group while still reaping the benefits are cut off from it. Why? Because their contributions lack the same dedication to the group and living with those that make the group something real. I'm sorry if that somehow offends you. Actually, I'm really not.

That's just myside bias.

You're basically saying that the increase in risk is minimal, but that tiny increase in risk justifies disenfranchising an entire community of players.

 

[askavir]

I'm sorry but I'm lost and confused.

In one thread, open players want more rewards because open is so risky due to players,
but in this thread open is dead and no one is playing it.

What???

It clearly cannot be both - so what one is it, empty of players or overly risky because of players ?

Why am I thinking Immovable object Vs Unstoppable force ?

Or Star Wars Stormtrooper shooting a Star Trek Redshirt...

Always wondered what would happen... Stormtroopers always miss, yet red shirts are always shot... i wonder...

Now more seriously. Griefing exists but is extremely rare, one can play for months without finding any. I actually took a trip around civilized space, through all faction capitals, all faction space, lave, eravate, lhs 3447, looking for the source of all these endless reports os blood-thirsty griefers, and not a single soul interdicted me, only those suicidal npc adders and vipers.

And open is not dead nor empty, I keep seeing players in many places, in lave, in starter systems, in powerplay activity hubs, sometimes in fringe systems. But 99% of the players are actually very cool guys. Their just minding their business, and like me they like to see ships which are not mere drones, but piloted by real peopla.

Player gankers and griefers are a tiny minority and they're actually very hard to find even if one wants to find them.

What happened to create the "griefers everywhere myth" was:

1 - A couple of players were really actually griefed and came here to tell.
2 - Fear spread like wildfire.
3 - From then on, players who spotted hollow squares in a corner of their their scanner immediately proceeded to their pants and jump out. Then they came here to report it accurately "a griefer almost had me, I barely escaped with my palladium!!!".
4 - Fear spread like wildfire
5 - A legend of open's extreme risk and griefer swarming everywhere was created, and spread from mouth to ear across all known universe
6 - Now open has a reputation of being composed by 70% water, 30% griefers. Or the other way around. And people who keep repeating this myth to exhaustion have probably not spent a single minute playing in open. But they know "for sure"...

 

[Majinvash]

Welcome anyone new to this thread.

It is pointless posting here as the same group of SOLO and Private players will filibuster anything you say.

So to make things easier just agree to the following and move on with your life.

Solo NPC's are just as challenging as real humans
PVP is bad
DB only ever envisioned player interaction, as waving at each other in space and talking about mining or exploration in space stations
People aren't content
Player created content is wrong
Mode switching is valid to avoid danger
15 seconds logout of danger is valid
Another MMO did something that works, so ED should be the same
EVE did something that works and would be great for ED but should never be copied or referenced
Mobius is the way the game should be played and anyone who thinks differently is a griefer, I mean they have over 10k of the half million player base "registered"
NPC pirating and shooting you is fine, players doing the same thing was never designed to happen.
People aren't leaving the game on mass
P2P is awesome for PVE, so why seek improvement
Powerplay and undermining anything in solo is totally valid because of something DB said which can be applied.
Working against other players in either Powerplay and minorfactions is definitely not PVP

Try and stick to the safe and working as intended topics, then this thread will continue happily. Do not incite discussion or want change.

Majinvash

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Welcome anyone new to this thread.

It is pointless posting here as the same group of SOLO and Private players will filibuster anything you say.

So to make things easier just agree to the following and move on with your life.

Solo NPC's are just as challenging as real humans
PVP is bad
DB only ever envisioned player interaction, as waving at each other in space and talking about mining or exploration in space stations
People aren't content
Player created content is wrong
Mode switching is valid to avoid danger
15 seconds logout of danger is valid
Another MMO did something that works, so ED should be the same
EVE did something that works and would be great for ED but should never be copied or referenced
Mobius is the way the game should be played and anyone who thinks differently is a griefer, I mean they have over 10k of the half million player base "registered"
NPC pirating and shooting you is fine, players doing the same thing was never designed to happen.
People aren't leaving the game on mass
P2P is awesome for PVE, so why seek improvement
Powerplay and undermining anything in solo is totally valid because of something DB said which can be applied.
Working against other players in either Powerplay and minorfactions is definitely not PVP

Try and stick to the safe and working as intended topics, then this thread will continue happily. Do not incite discussion or want change.

Majinvash

1) The fact that there are many forum members willing to defend the current setup as opposed to those who are in favour of changing something gives a reasonable indication of what a majority think. Its not a guarantee of course, its just the most vocal and active members on both side of the equation, which may or may not be representative of the whole community. However, the fact that we don't have thousands of players coming to the forums to complain is a telling statement.

2) Some of your statements are sooooo far off what people are saying in general its not even funny. Don't think i've seen many (any?) people saying PvP is bad for example. They just say people who want it are welcome to do it in Open and why should their desire for PvP require they change how they play in group/solo?

 

[Mouse]

1) The fact that there are many forum members willing to defend the current setup as opposed to those who are in favour of changing something gives a reasonable indication of what a majority think. Its not a guarantee of course, its just the most vocal and active members on both side of the equation, which may or may not be representative of the whole community. However, the fact that we don't have thousands of players coming to the forums to complain is a telling statement.

2) Some of your statements are sooooo far off what people are saying in general its not even funny. Don't think i've seen many (any?) people saying PvP is bad for example. They just say people who want it are welcome to do it in Open and why should their desire for PvP require they change how they play in group/solo?

You have to remember that everytime he ventures by and starts posting he has to be antagonistic. I chuckled at "Mobius is the way the game should be played and anyone who thinks differently is a griefer," as that has never been said at all and he was kicked out of Mobius for griefing and breaking the rules on purpose. But yeah Mobius is the bad group... give me a break.

But hey there is hope, he did get right that people are not content. They are here to play the game they are not required to be targets for others.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Solo NPC's are just as challenging as real humans

They are to some players. Dead is dead. Mike Tyson being a heavyweight might be a more challenging opponent than Sugar Ray Leonard on paper, but to anyone off the street, defeat would be certain against either one. Levels of challenge are academic when the lesser challenge is more than you can handle.

PVP is bad

Now you're just lying, and you know better. No one is against PvP. Every post I've read wants PvP for anyone who wants it. Unwanted PvP is bad. Adjectives are everything in this instance.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And people who keep repeating this myth to exhaustion have probably not spent a single minute playing in open.

Possibly, but i'm a proponent of keeping things as they are and have spent many hours in open. I've only had a few PvP encounters, most of them just silly.

1) In a combat zone, one guy kept trying to attack our wing of 4 then running away when we turned on him. This happened several times. He was in a Cobra. Guess his aim was to slow us down (this was during the Lugh campaign).

2) Someone in an Asp trying to ram me in an Orca while i was in a RES. They obviously had inferior shields because their shields lost a ring and mine barely budged. They also obviously didn't know they you really don't want to get into a ramming match with an Orca unless you are in something significantly tougher. They left me alone after that.

3) Two separate cases of people blowing me up in a Sidewinder in their vastly superior ships (Asp and Clipper as i recall). My sidewinder was armed with mining lasers. Admittedly I did interdict them, one was angry (no idea why, they should have been laughing i thought), the other didn't even open comms. Neither wanted to RP or even play along. Some PvPers are like this unfortunately.

That's it. Not a single case of one on one or wing vs wing with equivalent and balanced PvP.

I'll admit, i've only got about 100 hours logged in open compared to hundreds of hours in solo and group, and i don't go seeking out PvP (don't see much point in seeking it out, ill take it if it comes though and its a reasonably fair fight), but must say, my experience so far of PvP has not exactly been an advertisement for good PvP interactions.

I can fully understand people who want to trade in solo. I'd like to see trading ships become more tanky, with more hardpoints to provide better defenses. I see trade ships as something that should be able to take a major beating. At which point i could even then support changing the mechanism for submit/boost when interdicted, but while trade ships are at the mercy of people in combat ships, i'm all for whatever features allow traders to escape pirates/griefers/whoever. (note: Personally i hate trading).

- - - Updated - - -

You have to remember that everytime he ventures by and starts posting he has to be antagonistic. I chuckled at "Mobius is the way the game should be played and anyone who thinks differently is a griefer," as that has never been said at all and he was kicked out of Mobius for griefing and breaking the rules on purpose. But yeah Mobius is the bad group... give me a break.

But hey there is hope, he did get right that people are not content. They are here to play the game they are not required to be targets for others.

Unforunately I don't think he is doing a good job of promoting changing things. There have been posters in the past who have made reasonable arguments, which while I still disagreed with, could see their points and felt they were well argued.

 

[Mouse]

Unforunately I don't think he is doing a good job of promoting changing things. There have been posters in the past who have made reasonable arguments, which while I still disagreed with, could see their points and felt they were well argued.

Agreed, +1 rep

 

[Jockey79]

Or Star Wars Stormtrooper shooting a Star Trek Redshirt...

Always wondered what would happen... Stormtroopers always miss, yet red shirts are always shot... i wonder...

Now more seriously. Griefing exists but is extremely rare, one can play for months without finding any. I actually took a trip around civilized space, through all faction capitals, all faction space, lave, eravate, lhs 3447, looking for the source of all these endless reports os blood-thirsty griefers, and not a single soul interdicted me, only those suicidal npc adders and vipers.

And open is not dead nor empty, I keep seeing players in many places, in lave, in starter systems, in powerplay activity hubs, sometimes in fringe systems. But 99% of the players are actually very cool guys. Their just minding their business, and like me they like to see ships which are not mere drones, but piloted by real peopla.

Player gankers and griefers are a tiny minority and they're actually very hard to find even if one wants to find them.

What happened to create the "griefers everywhere myth" was:

1 - A couple of players were really actually griefed and came here to tell.
2 - Fear spread like wildfire.
3 - From then on, players who spotted hollow squares in a corner of their their scanner immediately proceeded to their pants and jump out. Then they came here to report it accurately "a griefer almost had me, I barely escaped with my palladium!!!".
4 - Fear spread like wildfire
5 - A legend of open's extreme risk and griefer swarming everywhere was created, and spread from mouth to ear across all known universe
6 - Now open has a reputation of being composed by 70% water, 30% griefers. Or the other way around. And people who keep repeating this myth to exhaustion have probably not spent a single minute playing in open. But they know "for sure"...

Love the Star Wars Vs Star Trek, that is funny and awesome

I know their are not griefers in every system, in thread 2 I did a 6 hour stint in Open broadcasting in the thread where I were and what I was doing - seen less than a dozen people all night and only 1 person interacted with me.
Quite a friendly player, interdicted me but decided my cargo wasn't worth the effort - had a chat and went about our business.

Your list alas, apart from being a tad condescending with comments like "fear spread" - We've covered comments that use insulting terms such as fear / scared and coward (and similar) you've missed when some YouTube channels were linked from a group of players that were just filled with videos of them cheating and/or griefing. I didn't even know the Orca was one of the ram killers until one person's channel was linked, and I had one at the time (thought I was awful to fly myself). Back then there was a couple of dozen videos and the list was growing, adding on those who joined a PvE group for the sole purpose of griefing - these are the people who perpetuate "griefing is everywhere" myth - as they make it look like it is everywhere.

Now a lot of this would be dealt with if FD made a big show over dealing with those who cheat / grief, a public list of people who are shadowbanned, and those from the YouTube channels showing how to cheat/ grief and those who maliciously joined a PvE group to PvP players/ grief players being permanently on that list would go a long way to quell the comments of open being a griefers paradise. It would also show FD are watching and will deal with those who are just here to ruin everyone elses game play experiences.

I found this to be really good;
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/watch-a-cheater-s-character-stripped-deleted-by-gu/1100-6427183/

 

[Hempstead]

Unforunately I don't think he is doing a good job of promoting changing things. There have been posters in the past who have made reasonable arguments, which while I still disagreed with, could see their points and felt they were well argued.

Actually, I think Manjivash and Meritz are the best PvE advocates one could hope for. Their so called "arguments" are so off putting and counter-productive that I think quite a few waffling people are pushed right into the PvE camp. Seeing the fallacies in their "arguments" and assertions is way more effective than you can argue positive for PvE.

 

[askavir]

Possibly, but i'm a proponent of keeping things as they are and have spent many hours in open. I've only had a few PvP encounters, most of them just silly.

I am not against people playing in solo or groups, nor am I seeking changes in those modes. People should be allowed to play alone or just with friends if that is their wish.

My point is that some of the "not-open" players spread untrue things about open, like its being full of griefers that won't just leave you alone anywhere you go. It just find it tiresome that so some of those players keep crying every single day on megaphones "griefers, griefers everywhere in open, blood-thirsty griefers in open, average lifespan in open is 30 seconds, griefers!!!!", when that is simply untrue. Anyone who actually been in open knows its untrue. So these people either are lying on purpose, or simply parroting fear-mongering myths they they heard / read without checking them out for themselves.

I always play in open, but I do not actively seek PvP. And my experience is similar to yours, unwanted PvP interactions are extremely rare, even if one puts itself at risk willingly like I have done to try to find the source of all these panic-spreading myths. I actually took a long tour across every system where I thought I would be target to griefers, starter systems, faction HQs and controlled systems (while being pledged to other faction), pirate king faction space, the lave cluster, superpower home systems, and absolutely not a single human player interdicted me. In all my game time since public release, I was attacked only 4 times by humans, 1 was a role-playing pirate which offered me chance to escape if I gave him some cargo, one was an enraged player from wich I admittedly kill-stealed a target in a RES, and only 2 of those attacks were unprovoked / no-obvious-reason attacks.

If people want to play solo or groups it is fine, but they should just stop the ridiculous fear-mongering and spreading of untrue "facts" which are easily disprovable by anyone who actually bothers to play in open and check for themselves.

 

[Seonid]

It is pointless posting here as the same group of SOLO and Private players will filibuster anything you say.

It really doesn't matter what any player says, FD have stated that it is by design and won't change. This thread only exists to herd all of the Princess Stampyfeet's into one place.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I am not against people playing in solo or groups, nor am I seeking changes in those modes. People should be allowed to play alone or just with friends if that is their wish.

My point is that some of the "not-open" players spread untrue things about open, like its being full of griefers that won't just leave you alone anywhere you go. It just find it tiresome that so some of those players keep crying every single day on megaphones "griefers, griefers everywhere in open, blood-thirsty griefers in open, average lifespan in open is 30 seconds, griefers!!!!", when that is simply untrue. Anyone who actually been in open knows its untrue. So these people either are lying on purpose, or simply parroting fear-mongering myths they they heard / read without checking them out for themselves.

I always play in open, but I do not actively seek PvP. And my experience is similar to yours, unwanted PvP interactions are extremely rare, even if one puts itself at risk willingly like I have done to try to find the source of all these panic-spreading myths. I actually took a long tour across every system where I thought I would be target to griefers, starter systems, faction HQs and controlled systems (while being pledged to other faction), pirate king faction space, the lave cluster, superpower home systems, and absolutely not a single human player interdicted me. In all my game time since public release, I was attacked only 4 times by humans, 1 was a role-playing pirate which offered me chance to escape if I gave him some cargo, one was an enraged player from wich I admittedly kill-stealed a target in a RES, and only 2 of those attacks were unprovoked / no-obvious-reason attacks.

If people want to play solo or groups it is fine, but they should just stop the ridiculous fear-mongering and spreading of untrue "facts" which are easily disprovable by anyone who actually bothers to play in open and check for themselves.

Yes, I agree, the fear mongering is overdone. One person reports a greifer or a cheat and suddenly people see shadows everywhere.

 

[askavir]

Love the Star Wars Vs Star Trek, that is funny and awesome

I know their are not griefers in every system, in thread 2 I did a 6 hour stint in Open broadcasting in the thread where I were and what I was doing - seen less than a dozen people all night and only 1 person interacted with me.
Quite a friendly player, interdicted me but decided my cargo wasn't worth the effort - had a chat and went about our business.

Your list alas, apart from being a tad condescending with comments like "fear spread" - We've covered comments that use insulting terms such as fear / scared and coward (and similar) you've missed when some YouTube channels were linked from a group of players that were just filled with videos of them cheating and/or griefing. I didn't even know the Orca was one of the ram killers until one person's channel was linked, and I had one at the time (thought I was awful to fly myself). Back then there was a couple of dozen videos and the list was growing, adding on those who joined a PvE group for the sole purpose of griefing - these are the people who perpetuate "griefing is everywhere" myth - as they make it look like it is everywhere.

Now a lot of this would be dealt with if FD made a big show over dealing with those who cheat / grief, a public list of people who are shadowbanned, and those from the YouTube channels showing how to cheat/ grief and those who maliciously joined a PvE group to PvP players/ grief players being permanently on that list would go a long way to quell the comments of open being a griefers paradise. It would also show FD are watching and will deal with those who are just here to ruin everyone elses game play experiences.

I found this to be really good;
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/watch-a-cheater-s-character-stripped-deleted-by-gu/1100-6427183/

I did not meant the expression "fear spread like widlfire" to be insulting, nor calling anyone a coward. I meant that because the constant "griefers everywhere in open" dubious reports, many people that would probably play in open now avoid open not because they were harassed in any way, but because they think that they will be harassed as soon as they login in open.

That video is great, there should be no mercy for cheaters!