Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nobody outside of FD can say which is the more popular mode. Pointing at sales numbers or numbers who have joined Mobius or numbers "complaining" on a forum are all meaningless conjecture.

I tend to think that Open will prosper, not because it technically has greater numbers (As I said, none of us knows. It may not.), but because it is generally more interesting from an engagement perspective. You can talk about game features in any mode. But with Open, you can go that step further and talk about players interacting with each other. Just look at the live streams FD does for example where they talk and interact with players live.

I certainly wouldn't say that Solo (or Group) would necessarily suffer because of this though. I don't see why the status quo with modes can't continue. It's not like having Solo/Group in place requires any additional effort on FDs part. And there is clearly a strong support base for those modes.

Maybe I should say that the game, in general, will continue to develop and prosper. But I see an emphasis on features where player interaction is a highlight.

The above is just my personal opinion, of course.

And I agree with a lot of it.

Mind you, I was questioning the line of reasoning, not making any statements myself.

And I said that he was reading minds because it's ridiculous to categorize the open solo debate as they bought the wrong game

One small comment on this, there have been a lot of posts where people were indeed expecting a different type of MMO, which could have been prevented by looking into what you buy first. I think that's where the sentiment emanated from

Having said that, generalizations about it should be avoided.

By the way, admin tools, good idea, full support from me.

 

[Mouse]

Nobody outside of FD can say which is the more popular mode. Pointing at sales numbers or numbers who have joined Mobius or numbers "complaining" on a forum are all meaningless conjecture.

I tend to think that Open will prosper, not because it technically has greater numbers (As I said, none of us knows. It may not.), but because it is generally more interesting from an engagement perspective. You can talk about game features in any mode. But with Open, you can go that step further and talk about players interacting with each other. Just look at the live streams FD does for example where they talk and interact with players live.

I certainly wouldn't say that Solo (or Group) would necessarily suffer because of this though. I don't see why the status quo with modes can't continue. It's not like having Solo/Group in place requires any additional effort on FDs part. And there is clearly a strong support base for those modes.

Maybe I should say that the game, in general, will continue to develop and prosper. But I see an emphasis on features where player interaction is a highlight.

The above is just my personal opinion, of course.

All the interactions you speak about that Open has that are great, some don't want that at all, and others like myself get that same interaction in Mobius, which is why we are trying to get an Open-PVE server.

 

[Daffan]

Unless you are in a Wing in which case the risk in Open is almost zero, unlike Solo.

You could have even less risk in private-group. The risk in open is always higher.

Private-group IS essentially solo when it comes to this discussion.

What is interesting and fun to you can be dull and tedious to other people. Not everyone is like you.

Cheers, Phos.

His idea is sound. You don't have to play on the second BGS if there is one. Thanks

How do you think the new Emperor was chosen ?

It wasn't a flip of a coin, Galnet has had that story running for months.
Players actions have decided who was the new leader of the Empire.

It was a close call between Blue and ALD - the old gal never stood a chance, not sexy enough for us male pervy gamers

If you have a new BGS, it would lose sync with the story and become stale / static.
Then even you wont have an impact on it - no one would.

Do you want a stale / static BGS for open only?

Yes, very amazing story - I felt so involved! Oh wait....

Sure it would lose sync, that doesn't meant It wouldn't have its own PowerPlay events - maybe even more player involved. Do you think PowerPlay just wouldn't exist in a second BGS? right...

--------------------

Time to push my agenda. I want to be an escort in this game that gets paid, please make it happen.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Time to push my agenda. I want to be an escort in this game that gets paid, please make it happen.

At the expense of forcing players to need player escorts? No thanks.

NPC Wingmen would be nice to see implemented as discussed in the DDF though....

 

[Cody]

That does not mean he isn't trying to have a sensible discussion.

<guffaws>

 

[Khelder]

<guffaws>

Now now.

 

[Jockey79]

One small comment on this, there have been a lot of posts where people were indeed expecting a different type of MMO, which could have been prevented by looking into what you buy first. I think that's where the sentiment emanated from

3rd incarnation of a topic where a few people make it known they dislike (synonyms : hate, detest, loathe, abhor - the list goes on) the ability to freely mode switch or having to share the BGS with players they cannot interact with - despite all this being known and advertised information before anyone could even buy the game, I think is a fair indicator they bought the wrong game. I've never read up on a game, gone "that sounds stupid, lets buy it and complain about it".

Apparently making that observation is grounds for a slew of insults around here.

Though, FD does have it's own share of blame - they never should have slapped the "MMO" tag on Elite: Dangerous.
It may in a technical sense fulfill the definition of an MMO, it does not really go out of its way to be an MMO.

Yes, very amazing story - I felt so involved! Oh wait....

Sure it would lose sync, that doesn't meant It wouldn't have its own PowerPlay events - maybe even more player involved. Do you think PowerPlay just wouldn't exist in a second BGS? right...

--------------------

Time to push my agenda. I want to be an escort in this game that gets paid, please make it happen.

Oh, how "involved" you were or were not is irrelevant - the story was there for anyone who wanted to be a part of it (I didn't, I went out in to the black for a change of pace).
And having different stories on different a BGS was something FD don't want - they want us all on the same page, in the same stories.

(which, by the way - is a little daft, as people play at different rates, so someone who plays once a week may end up way behind while someone who plays daily may get bored waiting for the story to move on)

I support the agenda you are pushing 100% also.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
I tend to think that Open will prosper, not because it technically has greater numbers (As I said, none of us knows. It may not.), but because it is generally more interesting from an engagement perspective. You can talk about game features in any mode. But with Open, you can go that step further and talk about players interacting with each other. Just look at the live streams FD does for example where they talk and interact with players live.

I certainly wouldn't say that Solo (or Group) would necessarily suffer because of this though. I don't see why the status quo with modes can't continue. It's not like having Solo/Group in place requires any additional effort on FDs part. And there is clearly a strong support base for those modes.

Maybe I should say that the game, in general, will continue to develop and prosper. But I see an emphasis on features where player interaction is a highlight.

I see no reason why all the game modes shouldn't 'prosper' as you put it. From release until this latest update, Open / PvP has been the major beneficiary if that's the correct word of new features, and 1.5 promises much enhanced mission content and structure, which should beef up PvE.

Whether something is generally more interesting due to player engagement is entirely subjective obviously, regardless of the nature of that engagement.

I agree that FD will continue to try and introduce things that where player interaction is a 'highlight' as you put it. Call it what you will, highlight, possibility, whether that will encourage players to go into Open mode we will have to wait and see. Thus far, most of the things they've done in this direction have simply been fuel for the fire that is this thread...

Time to push my agenda. I want to be an escort in this game that gets paid, please make it happen.

Just a thought... Have you actually, you know, asked any player traders you come across in Open whether they'd like you to work for them as an escort?

 

[Jockey79]

Thus far, most of the things they've done in this direction have simply been fuel for the fire that is this thread...

I think Shroud of the Avatar is having the same problem, as they have gone with the same game structure with modes.
Though for passion and tenacity I think Elite: Dangerous fans may be winning

[Edit: With speed / size of threads on the topic]

Just a thought... Have you actually, you know, asked any player traders you come across in Open whether they'd like you to work for them as an escort?

Well, that's the problem - the vouchers are meh and traders have no way to top it up themselves.
I have not tried myself to get escorts when I've been in open - because I know if I were asked I'd laugh and fly over to a RES where I'd earn more money / have more fun in a combat ship.

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
Well, that's the problem - the vouchers are meh and traders have no way to top it up themselves.
I have not tried myself to get escorts when I've been in open - because I know if I were asked I'd laugh and fly over to a RES where I'd earn more money / have more fun in a combat ship.

To be fair, that could well be a problem, and simple mechanics like making such things more feasible would probably be a much better solution than trying to create an Open only mode or whatever. Of course, instancing has to allow such gameplay to work reliably... Not sure how well it does.

As to earning more credits / having more fun in a RES, that's really one of the cruxes of this discussion. If earning more credits is a higher priority than more engaging gameplay, then nothing FD do will ever drag players who feel that way away from that. I honestly understand and empathize with the things Daffan says he would like to do, but it's never going to work by trying to persuade players who aren't interested in such things to jump in and do it, he and players who share his wishes for player engaged content need to organize themselves and get out and do it.

I'm really not being antagonistic when I keep suggesting that the potential for fun is already there, complaining about the details of it, that it's not worth it unless everybody does it is I think a poor excuse for not at least trying to do it.

 

[Roybe]

At the expense of forcing players to need player escorts? No thanks.

NPC Wingmen would be nice to see implemented as discussed in the DDF though....

MoM™ might have a different idea!

 

[Robert Maynard]

MoM™ might have a different idea!

Of course they could be used in an offensive capacity as well as defensive....

.... *but* adding in the feature would allow players who, for whatever reason, cannot rely on other players for assistance to get support within a Wing.

Looking forward to see further changes to the AI when MoM™ gets back to improving her minions....

 

[Roybe]

If people complian a large percentage prefer to play in solo, undermining the attemps in open, how can you in the same breath claim open is the more popular option that will outsurvive solo? How can anyone conclude the core playerbase plays in open?

Because you are conflating the issues. Devils advocate:

It does not take a large amount of people to tank a system...or undermine a few systems...it just takes credits and dedication. A single player can mess up two weeks work in a matter of 1 session. To many, this is inherently unfair. They feel that they should be able to protect their domain by directly facing their attackers. They need to get over this idea...in this game. The game is an unending tug of war...with many pressures pushing and pulling numbers about. This is by design. Good or bad..that opinion does not matter, since the devs have declared they are ignoring the debate.

 

[Roybe]

Of course they could be used in an offensive capacity as well as defensive....

.... *but* adding in the feature would allow players who, for whatever reason, cannot rely on other players for assistance to get support within a Wing.

Looking forward to see further changes to the AI when MoM™ gets back to improving her minions....

AI is one balancing method the devs are using to keep the modes viable for all players. AI difficulty will be increasing, with a clearer scale between the various levels.

So, the discussions we are seeing throughout the forums about the difficulty will currently be ignored. When the possibility of ship loss is equilibrated between the modes...more people should decide to play together. Not everyone...as there are people that just despise the idea of dying to a real person...or their internet won't support others...etc. but more people will give up the solitude for the interaction.

 

[Robert Maynard]

AI is one balancing method the devs are using to keep the modes viable for all players. AI difficulty will be increasing, with a clearer scale between the various levels.

So, the discussions we are seeing throughout the forums about the difficulty will currently be ignored. When the possibility of ship loss is equilibrated between the modes...more people should decide to play together. Not everyone...as there are people that just despise the idea of dying to a real person...or their internet won't support others...etc. but more people will give up the solitude for the interaction.

With the exception of your use of "should" and "will" where I would have used "may" and "might", I agree.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

At the expense of forcing players to need player escorts? No thanks.

NPC Wingmen would be nice to see implemented as discussed in the DDF though....

NPC wingmen could result in a balancing nightmare. In the worst case it would force everybody to be in wings (with players or with NPCs). Wings are already very problematic. I fear that NPC wingmen would be the end of the "lone wolf" CMDR.

 

[Cody]

I fear that NPC wingmen would be the end of the "lone wolf" CMDR.

[distant howls]

 

[Robert Maynard]

NPC wingmen could result in a balancing nightmare. In the worst case it would force everybody to be in wings (with players or with NPCs). Wings are already very problematic. I fear that NPC wingmen would be the end of the "lone wolf" CMDR.

Given that pure player Wings and pure NPC wings already exist and that lone wolf players still exist, why would we expect them to die off with the introduction of the last Wing type?

 

[Roybe]

NPC wingmen could result in a balancing nightmare. In the worst case it would force everybody to be in wings (with players or with NPCs). Wings are already very problematic. I fear that NPC wingmen would be the end of the "lone wolf" CMDR.

Why? It definitely makes the lone wolf job a little harder...but the jump and run will stay the same. I could outboost most NPC interdictions in a Type 9...and high waking was no problem.

 

[Faded Glory]

NPC wingmen could result in a balancing nightmare. In the worst case it would force everybody to be in wings (with players or with NPCs). Wings are already very problematic. I fear that NPC wingmen would be the end of the "lone wolf" CMDR.

Not really sure that it will make much of a difference. As Robert says, NPCs are already often in a wing which can be entertaining...

The one thing that being able to 'hire' NPC wingmen might do (at least for me) would be to be able to have a bit of support for some of the higher end pirate lord assassination missions, especially if they have wingmen too. Of course, FD would need to do something with the mission descriptions, so you would know that a wingman would be useful, or even necessary. Not holding my breath there...