Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

Do you want a Open PvE

  • Yes, I want a Open PvE

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • No, I don't want a Open PvE

    Votes: 49 46.7%
  • I want only Open PvE and PvP only in groups

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Personally I would just suggest remembering that behind the Avatars are people who might not react the same way as you when being pirated, and that might be for a reason. But that's my personal opinion.

I think Leto's already come across those types, when he mentioned that he had to turn off the speakers to spare his daughter the obscenities!

My own experience in the other space MMO was similar - the majority of folks are good sports and take both wins and loses with a smile and a "gf" (good fight). But now and again you come across someone who totally loses control over themselves. A few times I went on voice comms to try to calm them down and present myself as just another player, not a monster out to ruin their day. I'd go through what happened, what they could've done better and what I did to counter them - and for the majority of the time it was well received and they'd go about their game being a little bit smarter about it. I think the female voice with a soft, Welsh lilt had something to do with it ;) My favourite one was the fella who called out to someone "I'm being robbed by Cerys :eek::eek::eek::eek:ing Matthews!" :D

But one fella totally lost it with me and spewed out some of the vilest things I've ever heard, including real-life physical and sexual threats. Did I bring it on myself, or did this fella have a serious psychological problem where game and reality was blurred? I can't make anyone's mind up for them about that, but the consequence for me is that I no longer use voice comms in games and I'm much more wary about who I interact with in games these days.

So, coming back to anthonycsheehy's point; yes, please do remember that there's real people behind the spaceships and avatars. Pirates and their "victims" need to mindful of how they communicate and present themselves. With three modes to choose from, no-one should be finding themselves in a situation with another player that they did not want to be in.
 
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Oh come on, give players more credit than that.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

You wish, Laser Brain!

tumblr_mkga1p04ia1qcfjrio2_250.gif


Well, of course YOU would wish. :p Not everyone is a PvP loving button masher around here, and some people are just returning to gaming since playing Elite in the 80's... So the likelihood is... that some do not.

And if such people do find out, and get treated like other peoples content, they'll quickly learn and move on from Open. Soon in the end, Pirates, if they don't handle their sheep carefully, will end up with only other wolves to pick on.
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
Since I haven't really seen any other Player in.... hmmm... over a whole month in Open Play (except once @ Founders World) , I moved back & forth between Open and Mobius just to see "who's out there".
Turned out, pretty much nobody it seems.

Thus I've moved to Solo Mode and at least don't get any lags in transitions or Hyperspace jumps, also fewer disconnects due to spurious matchmaking errors etc.; that's something I guess, that got very annoying during the evenings and weekends.

And to be honest, due to above reasons I don't see any difference.
Not within 80LY of my Home base, not when running some LongRange Missions upto 125LY away. Nobody there anyway, at least not anyone I would get instanced with for all I can tell.

At least it's kinda useful when I need to hug a Medium Pad of an Outpost. I can go AFK for 30 Minutes without risking to block it for someone else.
(the way I know my luck I'd probably tick off the only other Player I might see in months that way :D )
 
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Oh come on, give players more credit than that.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Please show me where the advertising material clearly states Elite: Dangerous is a PvP game.

The words "Single", "Co-op", "Multiplayer" and "MMO" can all lead to PvE games, and people do make assumptions when buying games - like being able to play without other players bothering them.
You know, like how people made the assumption PvP players would go play open, not lie to sneak in to a private PvE group to grief other players....

I don't give anyone "more credit" than they deserve or prove worthy of for that very reason.
 
<snip>
But one fella totally lost it with me and spewed out some of the vilest things I've ever heard, including real-life physical and sexual threats. Did I bring it on myself, or did this fella have a serious psychological problem where game and reality was blurred?

This is the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread, before the nukes fell.


Makes RL threats when losing in game assets -
Day is ruined IRL by being interdicted -
Labels other players as "sociopaths" -

THIS is the part I am not getting.





 
I think in-game group finder is the great idea. I'd not favor and market any of the groups in game though, because this will be the unfair advantage.
The idea isn't exactly to market the Mobius group, but to create an official, dev-created, PvE-only alternative to Open. The Mobius group is a player-created alternative, and a great achievement that makes the game better for thousands of players, but due to the limitations of what can be done without official support it can never fulfill what its members truly want.

"When players became able to choose to be subject to PvP or not, the vast majority decided to not be subject to PvP." - not sure if this is the accurate statement. I think accepting consensual PVP will result much bigger player's exodus than disbanding Mobius. None of us knows this for sure and these are pure speculations. It's up to FD to decide what is the best for them based on their commercial interests. I truly hope their decisions will be carefully thought out and will generate continuous interest to the game.

That wasn't a prognostic for ED; that was a historic observation for UO. When Trammel (PvE world) was created, most players fled Felucca (PvP world) and settled instead on Trammel, even though Felucca had a 100% bonus on gathering materials and some exclusive (and important for progression) drops. The devs themselves acknowledge that, while most of the hardcore PvPers left the game afterwards, the increased retention of PvE players more than made up for that, allowing the game to double its player base in short order.

Would the same happen in ED? Hard to tell. I doubt the move would have so strong an effect because players can already avoid all PvP by playing Solo, so most of the players that value avoiding PvP more than they value meeting random strangers should already be there. My guess is that many, perhaps most, of the players that would migrate to an Open PvE option would be coming from Solo. In any case, it would provide a more pleasant experience for everyone that wants player interaction without player conflict.




By asking FD to support the statements they sold us the game with?

"Play your way" / "you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours"

At no point did they say, you will have to play with every pvper who buys the game cuz "reasons". I want to be able to play the advertised "Co-op" with all other members of the player base, not just the few who read the forums. A main menu item advertising (like Open PvE or have Groups listed in a PvP / PvE group filter and options to enable / disable PvP within the group) would go a long way to making sure all players know there is other ways to play the game apart from open PvP

Actually, Frontier (and DB, in interviews) did indicate they wanted players to be able to disable PvP inside groups. Or, failing that, to provide a setting that would automatically kick out of the group any player that got a bounty by attacking another player. One more bullet point from the DDR that was never implemented.




Oh come on, give players more credit than that.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Kinda hard to. Decades of research show that most players never seek any outside info about the game they are getting into. Why do you think most games now have in-game tutorials instead of manuals worthy of that name?




So, coming back to anthonycsheehy's point; yes, please do remember that there's real people behind the spaceships and avatars. Pirates and their "victims" need to mindful of how they communicate and present themselves. With three modes to choose from, no-one should be finding themselves in a situation with another player that they did not want to be in.
Exactly why I want an Open PvE mode. Right now we have:

- Solo: for those that don't want any player contact, be it PvP or PvE.
- Open: for those that want all kinds of player contact, both PvP and PvE.
- Group: can potentially supply the whole spectrum of experiences, but depends on finding the right group (which most players won't ever be able to do) and, even then, with a far more limited number of players, so it's a lesser experience for those that want to meet others.

So, where is the option for those that want to meet other random players, but only for PvE interactions? The closest thing is the Mobius group, but while that is the best that could be done with the in-game group tools, it will never be found by most players and will never be as good as a proper mode for the ones that do find it. Without such an option, for the majority of players that don't research outside the game, players that want to meet others but only for PvE interaction can either go Solo (and forgo all potential player interaction) or Open (where they will have PvP interactions they dislike).

BTW: yeah, there are players that can't completely separate game from reality. I'm one of those. Which is why I now only play games that allow me to filter out all unwanted player conflict.
 
BTW: yeah, there are players that can't completely separate game from reality. I'm one of those. Which is why I now only play games that allow me to filter out all unwanted player conflict.

You're a strange one, DarkWalker.

I've had this issue out with you before and I still find your attitude quite shocking, yet I feel a grudging respect for your outright honesty and that you have the responsibility to avoid situations that are going to make you flip.

I've never really been keen on an Open PvE mode, but you do make a good argument for one. I've warmed to it ever so slightly!
 
Kinda hard to. Decades of research show that most players never seek any outside info about the game they are getting into. Why do you think most games now have in-game tutorials instead of manuals worthy of that name?

Ugh.

I hate the lack of a proper manual anymore. But its not because of "decades of research" (seriously, you can come up with a positive demographic to justify pretty much ANY research), its because game companies dont want to spend money with printing materials when they can get away with a PDF file.

Remeber the Falcon 4.0 manual? Wow. I felt like I could fly an F-16 after reading it. But maybe thats not a good example. Remember the nintendo games that came out with the NES? They had full color manuals, and backstory for the games.

The gamers havent gotten softer... the publishers have gotten cheaper. I mean seriously, they now ask you to buy the game while its in BETA!! Jack up the prices, cut the costs, maximize profits -- and lower the deliverable.

I guess you could attribute a large percentage to digital distribution nowadays, because you cannot realistically expect a physical manual... but you could decide to print it yourself if the PDF was worthy...

Sorry for the OT rant... hate lack of manuals... UGH.

Edit: I KNEW I had an on-topic point! I did, specifically, make certain I could engage other pilots online before I purchased the game.
 
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Ugh.

I hate the lack of a proper manual anymore. But its not because of "decades of research" (seriously, you can come up with a positive demographic to justify pretty much ANY research), its because game companies dont want to spend money with printing materials when they can get away with a PDF file.

Remeber the Falcon 4.0 manual? Wow. I felt like I could fly an F-16 after reading it. But maybe thats not a good example. Remember the nintendo games that came out with the NES? They had full color manuals, and backstory for the games.

The gamers havent gotten softer... the publishers have gotten cheaper. I mean seriously, they now ask you to buy the game while its in BETA!! Jack up the prices, cut the costs, maximize profits -- and lower the deliverable.

I guess you could attribute a large percentage to digital distribution nowadays, because you cannot realistically expect a physical manual... but you could decide to print it yourself if the PDF was worthy...

Sorry for the OT rant... hate lack of manuals... UGH.

Edit: I KNEW I had an on-topic point! I did, specifically, make certain I could engage other pilots online before I purchased the game.

It's less to do with this than it is to keep a technical writer on staff to properly document, annotate, and define how to make programs work the way the programmers designed them. Better to put out a generic, PDF showing minimal information and putting the profits into the coffers.
 

Majinvash

Banned
Please show me where the advertising material clearly states Elite: Dangerous is a PvP game.

The words "Single", "Co-op", "Multiplayer" and "MMO" can all lead to PvE games, and people do make assumptions when buying games - like being able to play without other players bothering them.
You know, like how people made the assumption PvP players would go play open, not lie to sneak in to a private PvE group to grief other players....

I don't give anyone "more credit" than they deserve or prove worthy of for that very reason.

As you love a good quote.

From the ED main site.

Massively Multiplayer
*Large picture of lasers pew pew pew*
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.

Now you would have to be pretty special or nieve to not expect PVP in the game.
You might not want it but you would expect it.

Feel free to counter this by some long quoted rant from a QA or whatever. Which a new player is very unlikely to see.

But for a normal person, looking at buying ED. In the gaming market that exists today, where more games have a PVP element than ever before. It very clearly hints at it on the main site.
To think ED wouldn't, is just pain silly.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open
 
It's less to do with this than it is to keep a technical writer on staff to properly document, annotate, and define how to make programs work the way the programmers designed them. Better to put out a generic, PDF showing minimal information and putting the profits into the coffers.

Better for who? The publisher? Of course it is! But its not better for me, as a customer. I like the depth that a well put together manual brings.
 
You're a strange one, DarkWalker.

I've had this issue out with you before and I still find your attitude quite shocking, yet I feel a grudging respect for your outright honesty and that you have the responsibility to avoid situations that are going to make you flip.
Recognizing an issue is the first step in fixing it. I've hurt people in the past due to it (though not over a video-game), and I don't want that to happen ever again.
(Or to attack some inanimate object to dissipate my anger, for what matters; that gets expensive. One cast aluminum table cleaved in two is enough for a lifetime.)

So, yeah. I consider being able to avoid my "triggers" as essential to play, which is one reason I don't want to ever be forced into unwanted PvP situations, particularly ones that might involve others stealing from me.

There is another side to it too, as far as my preferences are concerned. I like PvP, but only if I'm absolutely sure my target wants the fight too. That, for me, is only possible if either there is a process to secure the explicit consent of my target before the fight begins, or otherwise if there is a way to somehow opt out of PvP on a whim, that all players are aware of, and without any downside. An official Open PvE mode should supply that second alternative.

Without an Open PvE mode I can't consider being in Open as consent because there is a downside to changing modes to avoid PvP: the player loses most player interactions, not just the PvP ones.

I would still be unlikely to play in Open, mind; besides consent, I want the PvP fights I get into to be well balanced, with about as good a chance for me to win as to lose. I'm the kind of player that will abandon a fight out of boredom if I'm wiping the floor with my opponent, or else voluntarily handicap myself to even the odds. But it would at least make PvP in Open another option for me, one I right now can't take with a clean conscience.
 
As you love a good quote.<snip>
Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Why do you think that everyone thinks like you?

Quote DBOBE - (I paraphrase) "[PvP should be] Rare and Meaningful..." Blah blah blah.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Better for who? The publisher? Of course it is! But its not better for me, as a customer. I like the depth that a well put together manual brings.

I like that too, and miss it. However - there have been exception. Remember Cholo? All you had was a story and an interface - off you go, figure it out for yourself. That was a nicely designed game
 
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Recognizing an issue is the first step in fixing it. I've hurt people in the past due to it (though not over a video-game), and I don't want that to happen ever again.
(Or to attack some inanimate object to dissipate my anger, for what matters; that gets expensive. One cast aluminum table cleaved in two is enough for a lifetime.)

So, yeah. I consider being able to avoid my "triggers" as essential to play, which is one reason I don't want to ever be forced into unwanted PvP situations, particularly ones that might involve others stealing from me.

There is another side to it too, as far as my preferences are concerned. I like PvP, but only if I'm absolutely sure my target wants the fight too. That, for me, is only possible if either there is a process to secure the explicit consent of my target before the fight begins, or otherwise if there is a way to somehow opt out of PvP on a whim, that all players are aware of, and without any downside. An official Open PvE mode should supply that second alternative.

Without an Open PvE mode I can't consider being in Open as consent because there is a downside to changing modes to avoid PvP: the player loses most player interactions, not just the PvP ones.

I would still be unlikely to play in Open, mind; besides consent, I want the PvP fights I get into to be well balanced, with about as good a chance for me to win as to lose. I'm the kind of player that will abandon a fight out of boredom if I'm wiping the floor with my opponent, or else voluntarily handicap myself to even the odds. But it would at least make PvP in Open another option for me, one I right now can't take with a clean conscience.

I still think you're a bit strange, but I understand you better now!
Thanks :)
 
[snip]
Yes. I would like a system that gives PvP players like minded targets and making players who are primarily interested in PvE less interesting targets.

To be honest, I think Mouse's reply to my 'question' was correct, and that's going to be the issue. Not many players play the game to be a target or a 'victim'.

PvP'ers have the possibility to organize themselves if they wish right now, and I'm sure many actually do. I don't really see that FD need expend resources on trying to help actual players organize themselves to play together, well, they already do with CGs and PP I suppose, but that is not specifically about PvP, and if player groups cannot or are unwilling to coordinate their actions within those frameworks, then I'm not sure that anything FD could do would help very much.

Understand that I don't think your suggestion(s) are bad, but I think that players who genuinely want to play together have plenty of tools to do that right now.
 
I didnt remember it... and google didnt help lol... what game is that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholo_(video_game)

It was remade by an outfit called Ovine and you can download it from here:

http://ovine.net/retro-remakes

240px-Spectrum_-_Cholo.jpg
Cholo_game1.gif


It came out round about the same time as Elite and was just one other game that had a big influence on me. I mean - imaging - a whole city to roam around and puzzles to solve... a whole generation to save!!!

Well, it was better than Raid over Moscow!!!
 
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I never played the original Elite. I was born in 82, so I didnt have access to anything my pops didnt get for our Commodore 64/128.

I did play a good game called "Echelon", for which all I can tell looks like it is Elite-style, around that time.
 
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