Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Leto Thule]

Unpredictable encounters;

Fuel Rats
Hutton Truckers G.I.M.P.P. challenge (I've run Hutton Mugs out to Sag A to give to another player)
Elite Racers
The Canonn Research Group

None of what these folk do on a day to day basis was predictable when the game launched, and none require PvP to join in.
Emergent game play without the need for guns /ammo

Great examples, and all good ideas and good ways to have fun and make the most of the game. Again I dont want to force anyone into anything, and i'm not saying PVP drives the game. It drives MY PERSONAL agenda, and I dont expect anyone to agree with it or adapt to it. In the quote I provided, you could easily justify "unpredictable" encounters as you have... but I can also justify it as the "worst enemy" part.

 

[Majinvash]

I said "clearly states Elite: Dangerous is a PvP game" - that does not "clearly" state anything. As you said yourself;



To clearly state something and to hint something are two very different things.

Folks just click "I accept" at all the screens that explain stuff without reading it, and folks don't even read the main website description of the game (how many times have I posted it now?).
Though the game developers can be blamed for that, as they refuse to use clear wording on what a game is or is not. For example;

War Thunder about page reads: "War Thunder is a cross-platform MMO combat game for PC, PS4, Mac and Linux, dedicated to World War II military aviation, armoured vehicles, and fleets. You will take part in many of the major combat battles fought during World War 2 and the Korean War, fighting with real players from all around the world." - with real players... as opposed to *against* other players (big difference as it is a PvP only game)

Planetside 2 about page reads: "PlanetSide 2 is a revolutionary massive scale first-person shooter where soldiers battle as one in strategic, targeted missions against enemy empires in an all-out planetary war. The game challenges the skill and grit of the most seasoned soldier through intenseinfantry, air, and ground vehicle gameplay. " - does not state who the enemy empires are, human or NPC. (PvP only game)

Even WoW is guilty of vague wording and it has PvE and PvP servers so it could use a clear description of it's game play.

"What is World of Warcraft? World of Warcraft is an online game where players from around the world assume the roles of heroic fantasy characters and explore a virtual world full of mystery, magic, and endless adventure." - Does not state who you're killing on your adventures.

So when the game devs won't even commit to an accurate description of their own games, I'm not surprised you cannot find a clear example of it saying PvP anywhere - there isn't one.
Mix that with how lazy people are when it comes to researching a game. It is not surprising this thread will not die. As new players turn up expecting the typical MMO features like global chat, raids, PvE and PvP servers.....

Only to find a lack of what we expect from an MMO plus you waiting for them to get your easy new player kills.



Really, a normal person? Here?
Prove it

Your ability to ignore the obvious is truly awe inspiring but I will bite.

What do you believe was meant/implied by

"Your deadliest enemy" in the marketing?

In a section talking about multiplayer with a picture of a ship shooting another ship.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
What do you believe was meant/implied by

"Your deadliest enemy" in the marketing?
…

Obviously the "deadliest enemy" is a NPC as the text is about pilots and not commanders

(sorry couldn't resist)

 

[Toxic_Waster]

On "unwanted interactions": if you play Battlefield and you get shot in the back of your head by a sniper, the interaction is clearly unwanted yet it's the essential part of game scenario. The same with Tetris: it's also the unwanted interaction if you miss the shape placement. However, without the "unwanted" interactions we don't have the game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

What is Elite Dangerous?

Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.

Elite Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic. With a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

In an age of galactic superpowers and interstellar war, every player’s story influences the unique connected gaming experience and evolving narrative. Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity’s frontier is reshaped, all by players’ actions.
400 Billion Star Systems. Infinite Freedom. Blaze Your Own Trail.

All of this refers to players influencing the BSG (which is broken, but that doesn't seem to be the discussion), in the background a Horizons looped animation.

Game Features

A Galaxy of Wonders

The 400 billion star systems of the Milky Way are the stage for Elite Dangerous' open-ended gameplay. The real stars, planets, moons, asteroid fields and black holes of our own galaxy are built to their true epic proportions in the largest designed playspace in videogame history.

THE ORIGINAL OPEN WORLD ADVENTURE

Elite Dangerous is the third sequel to 1984's genre-defining Elite, bringing gaming’s original open world adventure into the modern generation with a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entire Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.

BLAZE YOUR OWN TRAIL

Upgrade your ship and customize every component as you hunt, explore, fight, mine, smuggle, trade and survive in the cutthroat galaxy of the year 3301. Do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

Still, nothing about PvP, and that picture is the first pew pew one.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER

Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.

Here's the first reference to PvP, but notice the trusted ally or deadliest enemy. Clearly they are seen as on par, so still nothing to hint the multiplayer is all about PvP. Includes, sure

A UNIQUE CONNECTED GAMING EXPERIENCE

Governments fall, battles are lost and won, and humanity’s frontier is reshaped, all by players’ actions. In an age of galactic superpowers and interstellar war, every player’s personal story influences the connected galaxy and evolving narrative.

A LIVING GAME

Ongoing content updates have already brought massive-scale shared objectives and game-changing cooperative play to PC in February and March. Elite Dangerous is always in development, growing and expanding with new features and content on PC, Mac and Xbox One. Now with Powerplay, a new way to play Elite Dangerous.

More stuff about the BSG

Elite Dangerous: Horizons

A New Season Of Expansions

Elite Dangerous: Horizons is a new season of major gameplay expansions for Elite Dangerous, beginning with Planetary Landings across the Elite Dangerous galaxy. Elite Dangerous: Horizons will continue to introduce new features and gameplay as the season continues into 2016, enriching the Elite Dangerous experience with new activities and new ways to play.

It isn't until you get to CQC for the first mention of strict PvP

CQC

The Close Quarter Combat (CQC) Championships are the ultimate 34th century gladiatorial contest between Elite Dangerous pilots. CQC thrusts players into intense PVP action within the Elite Dangerous galaxy.

All from the horses mouth

 

[Robert Maynard]

On "unwanted interactions": if you play Battlefield and you get shot in the back of your head by a sniper, the interaction is clearly unwanted yet it's the essential part of game scenario. The same with Tetris: it's also the unwanted interaction if you miss the shape placement. However, without the "unwanted" interactions we don't have the game.

There is no requirement for PvP in Elite: Dangerous - a player can achieve all three in-game Elite rankings without exchanging fire with another player. Unsurprisingly, some players choose to eschew PvP altogether. There's still a game - as designed by Frontier - with NPCs that follow the rule-sets that Frontier defined for them.

Yes, there are those who champion emergent gameplay (i.e. player created) - however there are also those who don't want to partake in that gameplay.

 

[Mouse]

Why do you think that everyone thinks like you?

Quote DBOBE - (I paraphrase) "[PvP should be] Rare and Meaningful..." Blah blah blah.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



I like that too, and miss it. However - there have been exception. Remember Cholo? All you had was a story and an interface - off you go, figure it out for yourself. That was a nicely designed game

Have to remember that he is the self styled "Voice of Open" and therefore everyone in Open must think the way he does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholo_(video_game)


It was remade by an outfit called Ovine and you can download it from here:


http://ovine.net/retro-remakes


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...kimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Cholo_game1.gif


It came out round about the same time as Elite and was just one other game that had a big influence on me. I mean - imaging - a whole city to roam around and puzzles to solve... a whole generation to save!!!


Well, it was better than Raid over Moscow!!!

and a city? You need to look up "The Dig" on Steam.. a whole planet of puzzles and a good storyline. Or we could delve into Myst ^,^

 

[Toxic_Waster]

There is no requirement for PvP in Elite: Dangerous - a player can achieve all three in-game Elite rankings without exchanging fire with another player. Unsurprisingly, some players choose to eschew PvP altogether. There's still a game - as designed by Frontier - with NPCs that follow the rule-sets that Frontier defined for them.

Yes, there are those who champion emergent gameplay (i.e. player created) - however there are also those who don't want to partake in that gameplay.

If they don't want to encounter PVP all they have to do is to move 5 jumps away from the high traffic areas. it's what I do when I want my quiet time and I don't ever have to switch modes. So I don't think the topic is about avoiding PVP, it's about avoiding the slightest possibility for PVP and those who request it don't realize they're killing the game.

 

[Faded Glory]

On "unwanted interactions": if you play Battlefield and you get shot in the back of your head by a sniper, the interaction is clearly unwanted yet it's the essential part of game scenario. The same with Tetris: it's also the unwanted interaction if you miss the shape placement. However, without the "unwanted" interactions we don't have the game.

As Robert Maynard points out, the environment can and does create unwanted interactions that can set you back and make the gameplay more (or less) interesting. So you can absolutely still have the game without unwanted player on player interactions, and these need not involve lasers or cannons, but could simply be an uninvited comms message.

 

[Leto Thule]

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER

https://d1wv0x2frmpnh.cloudfront.net/elite/website/redesign/MassivelyMultiplayer-small.jpg
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.

Here's the first reference to PvP, but notice the trusted ally or deadliest enemy. Clearly they are seen as on par, so still nothing to hint the multiplayer is all about PvP. Includes, sure


CQC

The Close Quarter Combat (CQC) Championships are the ultimate 34th century gladiatorial contest between Elite Dangerous pilots. CQC thrusts players into intense PVP action within the Elite Dangerous galaxy.

Its not ALL about PVP. I never said it was, and I dont think anyone else has either. It looks to me like its all-inclusive, allowing groups of players to interact together in ANY WAY they see fit, including ship to ship combat.

CQC is for "gladatorial contests". Open world PVP isnt about a contest, you dont get killmails in elite (thank GOD, that RUINED piracy in EVE). Arranged PVP isnt what pirates want to do, pirates want to HUNT! Ill mess with CQC tonight when I get home and see what its about, but honestly the fun part for me is the piracy part. Not just getting to shoot at other players.

 

[Mouse]

Jockey, in your post you cited some examples with other games and their description. You are indeed correct, nowhere does it state that you will be playing "against" other players.

However...

When my group of friends looks over a new candidate for purchase, the VERY first thing that comes up for discussion is usually "is there multiplayer?"

In my group, the term "multi player" is indicative as to if we can play versus each other, or others. I realize this is not the websters (or urban, lol) dictionary definition, but the general idea of multi player games is that there is some sort of fight against other players. Be it as a team of us, or us vs each other.

Nobody I know of buys a multiplayer game with the intent on fighting nothing but bots. Nobody watches the gaming championships (I dont anyhow) to see players fight bots.

In my world Multiplayer does not mean PVP.. it means many people will be playing the game and there will be interaction. LIke, " Oh I wanted that target but someone else got to it first, I guess I have to wait for it to respawn."

And I guess I am no one.. because in EVERY Multiplayer game I have bought the intent was to interact with people and to fight bots, sometimes alongside them.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Its not ALL about PVP. I never said it was, and I dont think anyone else has either.

Not taking sides or arguing against a certain perspective, but since the main page of the main site was discussed, I thought I'd give my take on it.

edit: well that's not actually true is it? I am arguing against "it's all about PvP", but don't know if that was anyone's position.

 

[Faded Glory]

If they don't want to encounter PVP all they have to do is to move 5 jumps away from the high traffic areas. it's what I do when I want my quiet time and I don't ever have to switch modes. So I don't think the topic is about avoiding PVP, it's about avoiding the slightest possibility for PVP and those who request it don't realize they're killing the game.

To suggest that those who wish to play in a mode other than Open are killing the game (if that is what you are suggesting) is at least IMO rubbish. They are just playing the way they want to, as you are playing the game the way you want to.

If they are depriving you of content, well that's just how it is, no player is obliged to be another player's content.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If they don't want to encounter PVP all they have to do is to move 5 jumps away from the high traffic areas. it's what I do when I want my quiet time and I don't ever have to switch modes. So I don't think the topic is about avoiding PVP, it's about avoiding the slightest possibility for PVP and those who request it don't realize they're killing the game.

Killing the game for whom?

I expect that those who use modes other than Open are exercising their option to "play the game how you want to" (as Frontier have encouraged every player to do).

Why should players be restricted where they travel simply because of other players?

 

[Toxic_Waster]

As Robert Maynard points out, the environment can and does create unwanted interactions that can set you back and make the gameplay more (or less) interesting. So you can absolutely still have the game without unwanted player on player interactions, and these need not involve lasers or cannons, but could simply be an uninvited comms message.

On/Off PVP switch will never work. It will remove entirely piracy from the game and other content. The game will become duller and more shallow. It's not like ED has already plenty of content.

 

[Robert Maynard]

On/Off PVP switch will never work. It will remove entirely piracy from the game and other content. The game will become duller and more shallow. It's not like ED has already plenty of content.

To suggest that piracy would disappear if there were no player targets is rather telling - why is piracy only attractive if the target is a player?

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Killing the game for whom?

I expect that those who use modes other than Open are exercising their option to "play the game how you want to" (as Frontier have encouraged every player to do).

Why should players be restricted where they travel simply because of other players?

Killing the game for the vast PVP community.

Players are not restricted. We're all play the same game with the same start. It's silly to expect the similar level of combat experience from the players who mostly PVE. If one wants to move to dangerous areas he should be skilled and equipped for it. It's the same as complaining about inability to access anarchy system in the shieldless hauler.

 

[Phosphora]

If they don't want to encounter PVP all they have to do is to move 5 jumps away from the high traffic areas. it's what I do when I want my quiet time and I don't ever have to switch modes. So I don't think the topic is about avoiding PVP, it's about avoiding the slightest possibility for PVP and those who request it don't realize they're killing the game.

I play in solo, because I want to be able to go where I like, when I like, and not have other players try to make me part of their content.

This isn't a game where some players can lay claim to certain areas. That's why I play it.

I personally loathe PvP. I find it dull and boring. Frontier allow players to avoid PvP entirely, and this lets them attract more players (maybe those on the introverted side). I have no problem with people who enjoy PvP, but it shouldn't be compulsory. Differing modes let the game appeal to people with differing personalities.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

To suggest that piracy would disappear if there were no player targets is rather telling - why is piracy only attractive if the target is a player?

PVP and PVE piracy are two completely different things. I dare to say that per my estimation PVE piracy is 10% from the entire piracy scope.

 

[Mouse]

I would only support the inclusion of an official open PvE mode if FD brought in a 'time in open' bonus (only available in regular open) to encourage people into open play. Without that an open PvE mode would just hurt open numbers even more.

I find it interesting that you say it would "hurt" open..please explain how it would hurt open and why open would need bonuses