Well, let me tell you about CQC Championships.
Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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Well, let me tell you about CQC Championships.
It takes a man to apologize. I appreciate it. The thread does get heated at times.
If you want to express yourself in a way that supports your position and you know will be read by the Devs, why not post (1 post only so put your position together) in the Vox Populi thread?
Back from the battlefront...
You know, I tried to oppose Zach's expansion efforts into Brani system tonight... so I flew there, got into a conflict zone and killed a few ships. After restocking my ammunition and other supplies I noticed a wing and some loners working for Mr. Hudson who put a fair amount of effort into interdicting hostile power vessels to keep them away from the military strikes... Especially the three commanders in their Pythons did an admirable job at suppressing enemy intrusion and supported other Hudson Folk as heavy cavalry... Wow, great game, you drove me off, you deserve it!
...when we now do the raw numbers, then we look at 5-6 commanders spending their time at keeping space superiority in their target system and NOT using this time in the military strikes to earn points for their faction. If this was a pure OPEN environment, they could get a positive net result out of it (If they drive away or shoot down 10 commanders, they are quite successful balance-wise)...
However, as nothing can prevent me from changing into SOLO mode and gathering points against AI eagles without ever having to fear real opposition, they are completely and utterly ineffective.
This really is the one point that gets me angry! These people have put effort, coordination and skill into an immersive and plausible style of playing that is an enrichment for the perception of the interstellar power struggle the game tries to depict... and the rules let them look like fools! Everybody can shoot down those AI muppets and be effective PP-wise, but concerted and coordinated efforts like shown by these commanders (probably shouldn't applaud too much, they are the enemy after all
) are more or less futile on a metagame level.
Haggis McMoose
Fed Fugitive
You know, I tried to oppose Zach's expansion efforts into Brani system tonight... so I flew there, got into a conflict zone and killed a few ships. After restocking my ammunition and other supplies I noticed a wing and some loners working for Mr. Hudson who put a fair amount of effort into interdicting hostile power vessels to keep them away from the military strikes... Especially the three commanders in their Pythons did an admirable job at suppressing enemy intrusion and supported other Hudson Folk as heavy cavalry... Wow, great game, you drove me off, you deserve it!
...when we now do the raw numbers, then we look at 5-6 commanders spending their time at keeping space superiority in their target system and NOT using this time in the military strikes to earn points for their faction. If this was a pure OPEN environment, they could get a positive net result out of it (If they drive away or shoot down 10 commanders, they are quite successful balance-wise)...
However, as nothing can prevent me from changing into SOLO mode and gathering points against AI eagles without ever having to fear real opposition, they are completely and utterly ineffective.
This really is the one point that gets me angry! These people have put effort, coordination and skill into an immersive and plausible style of playing that is an enrichment for the perception of the interstellar power struggle the game tries to depict... and the rules let them look like fools! Everybody can shoot down those AI muppets and be effective PP-wise, but concerted and coordinated efforts like shown by these commanders (probably shouldn't applaud too much, they are the enemy after all
) are more or less futile on a metagame level.Haggis McMoose
Fed Fugitive
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<snip>
Good to see you again; your cogent position is a breath of fresh air in this sulty, overheated room.
That's quite the opposite of what i'd say.
It's a completely different thing. Similar to how playing LoL is different from engaging in open world PvP in MMOs.
My own PvP preferences are a reflection of that. I abhor any kind of non-consensual PvP, to the point I don't even give a chance to any game that has both PvP and PvE but doesn't allow me to completely opt out of PvP; at the same time I love fully consensual PvP, and play pure PvP games a lot.
We agree!
Difference is that isnt all games for pvp .....and one of them is elite ...
Pretty much, but I mean damn, at least this is a step in the right direction.
Unfortunately that isn't exactly what Frontier delivered. I'm not sure what the <ahem> this mess is.
My grandfather loved to say, "Crap or get off the pot" ... Frontier needs to fully commit to one thing or another and stop dancing in the grey area between PvP and PVE.
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If we get a Power Play related CQC championship and/or an F-zero like racing element, all is forgiven.
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Hurray, I'm glad you enjoyed playing the way you wanted to play. That is what ED is for.
You mention "raw numbers". I for one would like to know what these numbers are and where you acquired them. You also quip "pure" ,emphasis on OPEN, environment, which would also include everyone who through matchmaker, network, etcetera, etcetera yada yada yada how many times do we have to repeat this... you couldn't see and were invisible/not in the same instance as you and those who you fought against were in.
ineffective to you, not to everyone else, not everyone who plays ED is an expert or a shoot em up McGillicutty bang boom dead I'm so awesome pilot. Apparently Shocking to some of you there *Gasp* There are people who struggle in Solo who to them Solo is not this mythical easy cake lets cheat place.
*headdesk* ok.. you know what... lets put this in a real life scenario...
Ze Germans aka ze enemy open players, have overrun France. They control it.
You as a let’s say Canadian Soldier, aka also open player, with other Canadian Soldiers participate in a raid on a place called Dieppe and ze Germans defend against you. You fight valiantly but are defeated and driven off. This is the type of battle you want; open face to face you both shoot at each other for control of an area.
But there are other battles going on at the same time.
Ze flak cannons and Luftwaffe, aka ze enemy NPCs, Solo players and Group players, are also in ze battle attacking the RAF aka NPCs, Solo players and Group players. There is nothing you can do about these battles, they are in ze air, but you are on ze ground. You do not even see them in this context and even if you could you cannot affect this battle in any form.
And lets not forget La Résistance française aka other open players not visible to you. At the same time the raid is going on they are attempting to undermine the German's control of France. You can't see them at all, and there is a good chance that ze open players you are fighting against cannot either. They may, or may not be seen by other German open players but only if they are in the same instance. They may be stopped, they may be caught by German NPCs or they may blow up the ze railroad bridge.
Warfare, whether real or in game, does not hinge upon only the actions of your immediate surroundings, nor are your actions or anyone else’s futile; they all have an effect.
Does this help explain it?
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https://support.elitedangerous.com/kb/faq.php?id=147
basically, I'm sold. Hell yes.
basically, I'm sold. Hell yes.
- Customise and pilot your own personalised fighter alongside your wingmen in the ultimate 34th Century gladiatorial contest.
- Honed for competitive play, bringing a balanced combat space for players to test their skills against others on Xbox Live.
- CQC will be a balanced, competitive experience, and we hope the eSports community will embrace it.
- Integration into the wider Elite: Dangerous galaxy and narrative provides a stepping stone into the game’s experience.
- Fly the Sidewinder, Eagle and (new to players) F63 Condor Federal Fighter.
- Earn XP to increase your CQC rank. Unlock new modules, weapons and abilities.
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not bad is something that will have pvp ppl occupied
It isn't anything bad, instigator, I am pretty content with this.
Of course, we could all have our time occupied with a dictionary here and there. Learning is Knowledge, Knowledge is Power, Power is Play.This is my most-encountered problem with Open. Players/Pirates brush this away in every single argument they make for piracy, but it is for the majority of players. "Pirates" who are really PKers would seem to be the natural enemies of the "real" Pirates in the game. They are giving many people reason to not play Open, thereby cutting down on your "action."
Another example: There are huge swaths of "pirates" camping out in the Leesti-Lave cluster and shooting anything that comes into the system, regardless of Power affiliation. This cluster is one of a few well-known rares trading circuits and is one that many, many new players used to get themselves out of a Sidewinder, into a Hauler & thereby earn credits for some of the combat ships.
The same problem is evidenced in the "blockading" (shooting every ship that enters the cluster (ex:Eravate) of systems where many noobs spawn for the first time. There's no "PP reason" for this; indeed, it's been going on long before PP/1.3 was released. There's no piracy to this; it is strictly PKing. There's no defense for that except to slip into Solo.
To argue otherwise is to be either completely naive about the metagame or dissembling. You know exactly what I mean. Please address this image problem you have if you really want a dialogue. Otherwise, it's just more rationalization.
An understatement if ever I saw one, more like a newly fitted aircon unit
I guess we disagree again.
Ps what did happen to "ideas man", its like he disappeared?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php?page=4&pp=50&order=asc&sort=username<r=I
I expected to find him between "IDDY" & "IDEO" on the list ?, did he have to go into the "witness protection program"
(or maybe I can't remember how to spell his name correctly?)Hello Mr. Mouse, I was thinking of going to bed, but you raise some fair points there
You're right, I really was having a good time seeing their live performance. Concerning the "raw numbers": Let's play it tight: They were on their hunt for no less than 2 hours before I gave up for good, I can confirm a wing of 3 and 2 single commanders. (might have been 3, but I really don't know for sure... being hunted and such). IF I assume the pilots they dissuade from operating in the system (can confirm half a dozen, might have been more... hunted, not looking, so in your favour...) can gain points by killing at the same ratio as the defenders, they will break even in their efforts as soon as they drive away 5 or more commanders for at least their own operating time (well, not everybody got out alive, so I think that's a fair assumption).
If participation in OPEN was the only way of fighting Hudson's expansion into Brangi, you could indeed say they probably were operating efficiently... Given there were 3 Pythons among them the set equality of kill ratio is a bit bold, but hey, that's bold in your favour!
If, however, the commanders driven away returned to Brangi in SOLO mode, the 5 confirmed defenders stand with 0 points against (kill ratio*SOLO time*SOLO commanders).
Had they gone into the fray of the NPC shooting range themselves, they would have countered that with (kill ratio*operating time*defending commanders).
What stirs me up is that you can render those efforts ineffective by eliminating any defending wings from the system. I really am on your side concerning the scale of conflict and multitude of battlefields, but here you can go invisible on ONE SINGLE battlefield.
Ultimately I will be on the losing side in this discussion, for as long as we play in an instanced environment one always can end up in an operative setting not representative of the current local power deployment, but there at least you have to take a risk and hope that the fog of war will spit you out into a survivable corner of the action.
You gave some interesting examples concerning asymmetric means of warfare. Were these means implemented on a game level (sensor jammers, means to influence NPC battlefield numbers and equipment, ...) I would gladly adopt those as a further enrichment of the game. But switching to SOLO and fighting in the same system you had to leave due to a great defense deployment is a tactical means on the metagame level... there is no background involved here, it (for me, I can only write about my impressions) takes the meaning of the whole effort away...
Oh, and apologies! I did not want to brag about great combat skills and "only noobs can't fry an Anaconda in a Sidewinder!" I, too, had and still have a good deal of learning in front of me and would never call myself a top combattant. Sorry if some previous statement sounded arrogant!
Haggis McMoose,
discussing for defenders
It isn't anything bad, instigator, I am pretty content with this.
You keep calling him an instigator...
[video=youtube;G2y8Sx4B2Sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]
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