Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

Do they? http://puu.sh/iyzkR/f89f270353.jpg

See, no one knew what to call it - hence it getting every option going.
I've been calling ED "Flexi-player", some use "Selective Multiplayer", others just say it is "unique".

Steam just went with all the tags, which works just as well.

This is the game, as it is supposed to be. Confirmed over and over again, since Kickstarter - so for over two (2) years.

 

[SteveLaw]

Do they? http://puu.sh/iyzkR/f89f270353.jpg

Yes they do. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=3955

 

[DarkWalker]

so where does this game stop being an SP/co-op and become player driven IE an MMO? because thats what its listed as

I guess you missed the fact it's also listed as a single-player and co-op game.

So, no, it doesn't stop being a SP/Co-op game. Not unless Frontier wants to deal with accusations of false advertisement, and potentially a lot of refund claims.

no, some have raids, does this game?

also do any successfull MMOs have a solo mode?

You mean, instances that can be run by a single player? Like those in Lord of the Rings Online, DC Universe Online, Marvel Heroes, and the whole upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic expansion?

Besides, players being prevented from harming each other is the rule nowadays, not the exception. When that is the case, players can have an experience very much like a solo mode by simply ignoring everyone else, since no other player can do anything to harm or hinder them. Many MMOs even went one step beyond, and tuned loot and quest objectives in a way players are never in competition; GW2 is the poster child here, but even WoW has been toying with the idea.

Yes it is, and its a really good one, but solo/private isnt doing it any favors, and for what? to replicate the previous elite games? FD have done that already and those games are from older times. i would wager my anaconda that DB dreamed of filling the original elite world with players, and that this MMO has been his goal since day one but as long as solo play remains an option to those fearing a heft rebuy and grinding to a ship worthy of one the MMO will suffer, as iv said so many times the galaxy is big enough for everyone.

You could offer me infinite apples, it would still amount to nothing if what I want is an orange.

In other words, the galaxy, even with billions of stars, isn't big enough to offer both the experiences you want and those I desire without the separate modes.

and just to clarify my premise, i use PVP to describe open play because private group is basically 4 man co-op and that does not constitute an MMO. I do say open play is PVP no matter what your doing because even when its not direct your still running that risk, pretty much any role is potentially the prey of another, you dont need to be hunting someone but rest assured someone out there is hunting for you and that is a fact of open play even if they never find you or like me just fail at it

I'm not going to play this kind of PvP ED currently offers. Not interested in the least, I would rather watch paint dry. And if it intrudes my PvE gameplay, I would rather completely leave the game than take part.

Now, the upcoming CQC — instanced, arena gameplay, with even teams and no negative consequences for losing — is something I could potentially spend many days playing non-stop. This is the kind of PvP I dearly love, not the mess that open world PvP nearly always becomes.

Do they? http://puu.sh/iyzkR/f89f270353.jpg

What else can you call a game that is being sold as a Single-player game, a Co-op game, a Multi-player game, and a MMO, all at once?

Certainly not a traditional MMO

 

[DarkWalker]

Well yes, player interaction relies on other players. That's kinda obvious. But not everyone wants player interaction. But again you go on to describe the different player roles, none of which need player interaction.

Not all interaction is the same. For example, I love positive interaction, when players help each other, as well as fully consensual PvP; but if not everyone has explicitly consented to fight in a PvP situation, then I'm simply not playing.

Some start off that way but I think most end up having to add it at some level. Many separate it lot more than ED though. Again, Darkwalker would be your go-to guy on this one.

If a game starts as a pure PvP one, then it better stay as a pure PvP one; changing tracks radically after launch tends to be a catastrophically bad NGE-grade idea. It's why, while I would love to see a PvE-only EVE come into existence, I never tried to push that idea forward, as this large a change could kill the game before it had a chance to attract more players like me.

The ones that change, when it comes to the PvP–PvE axis, tend to be those where the devs intended, and advertised, the game as one where PvP and PvE coexist, but ended being dominated by the PvP aspect to the point PvE players start leaving in droves. The most famous example is Ultima Online; the original idea, much like in ED, was to have a game world that mimicked real world societies, where PvP was rare and meaningful. Unfortunately, PvP got completely out of control and nothing the devs did managed to bring it to reasonable levels, so they decided to split the game world into PvP and PvE halves.

Even then, it leads to drama. With UO, for example, while the change was ultimately good for the game — I've seen more than one dev pointing to how it saved the game, and UO is still available to this day — it drove away a large number of PvPers.

Of note, I don't consider adding a separate, completely optional mode as changing what the game is about. Diablo 3 didn't change its PvE nature when the Arena was added, TF2 didn't change its PvP nature when optional co-op PvE was added, and so on.

---

Massive? 400 Billion Stars enough for you?
Multiplayer? Mobius has over 9000 members playing in the same Galaxy at various times
Online: Need an Internet connection to sign into the game.

The defence rests...

Indeed, the Mobius group alone would qualify this game as a MMO

---

They banned it? Crikey! We got up to worse stuff than that - but school was brutal back then.

Very off-topic, but I single-handedly got it banned from my own school a few decades ago, in a far more literal way than I would ever like. 38 stitches across my right forearm, after I plunged fist-first through a glass door while playing it, made quite an impression.

 

[Cody]

I single-handedly got it banned from my own school a few decades ago, in a far more literal way than I would ever like. 38 stitches across my right forearm, after I plunged fist-first through a glass door while playing it, made quite an impression.

Impressive indeed! Ah those were the days - I recall one particular game that involved lobbing penknives at each other. Mind you, I reckon the worst blood and gore I ever saw at school was on the cricket pitch when our wicket keeper, standing-up to the spinner, took a bat full in the face.

 

[micky1984]

the simple solution is not to implement PP in solo but only in open

 

[Roland2]

They asked for comments on the matter of Community Goals across the different play modes three months ago. No feedback has been made by Frontier on this issue. Why did they ask? That was opened after these statements that "nothing is planned to changed" or "nothing will change in the foreseeable future" (statements that are not as definitive or set in stone as some people seem to read them as, like most dev statements). And these statements have been made since.

Since raising a question over that issue they originally planned to include a very similar ladder in PP (that was even more competitive than CG). They only removed that after negative feedback (not about modes, but about the desire to play cooperatively rather than competitively, amongst the Powers). Why include it if they were actually paying any heed to the issue they raised as a concern? It was like the negativity was a surprise when we've been having this debate for two years+.

If they were to be more involved in these debates we would at least be more confident that they are actually paying attention to them. Some complaints are actually reasonable, even if they do get mixed in with some ridiculous ones, and are raised again, and again. They deserve some direct feedback surely? Even if it says the same thing. But saying "we have no plans to change it" in direct response to a regular request for change has a lot more weight than a generic detached statement.

They are in a position to offer an insight into their design decisions, we are all only guessing.

Community management/engagement/feedback.

I don't disagree, but we were never given a time line. From the page 1 quotes:

Sandro:
"There won't be any changes in the immediate future (our time is fairly booked up right now)"
"Like I said though, we'll need to chew over this some more when we get the time. Nothing is going to happen right away."
"But this is clearly an interesting debate, on both sides of the fence, so we will revisit it at a later date."

Your definition of "a later date" may not match Sandro's.

I also recall one of the devs saying thay make make background changes to resolve any issues which they never tell us about. I can't find the quote, so I may be remembering wrong.

 

[fademist]

I don't disagree, but we were never given a time line. From the page 1 quotes:

Sandro:
"There won't be any changes in the immediate future (our time is fairly booked up right now)"
"Like I said though, we'll need to chew over this some more when we get the time. Nothing is going to happen right away."
"But this is clearly an interesting debate, on both sides of the fence, so we will revisit it at a later date."

Your definition of "a later date" may not match Sandro's.

I also recall one of the devs saying thay make make background changes to resolve any issues which they never tell us about. I can't find the quote, so I may be remembering wrong.

later date is later date unless u know that day and hide it from us

 

[fademist]

the simple solution is not to implement PP in solo but only in open

Dont derail the thread to solo vs open ......

 

[atak2]

My last post promised that I would not get involved in this thread again. I was getting too personal and I will try and stick with that.

Having said that I made a brainstorming thread mainly based around how Power play works across all modes:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=159693

Now we have all had disagreements but I would love your perspectives ( e.g. Stevelaw seems intelligent) on how to make Power play more immersive and fun countering and attacking people whatever mode they choose.

Please read the the entire thread before you add anything.

 

[SteveLaw]

Impressive indeed! Ah those were the days - I recall one particular game that involved lobbing penknives at each other. Mind you, I reckon the worst blood and gore I ever saw at school was on the cricket pitch when our wicket keeper, standing-up to the spinner, took a bat full in the face.

I still have a lump on my forehead over 30 years later after I took a cricket bat to the head - I was queued up to bat a little too close to the batter during an ad-hoc lunchtime game. I still remember the looks of horror at my injury as I was escorted through the playground. (I also have a scar on my chin from primary school. Hmm.)

 

[Killnetic]

[Poll] Powerplay open versus private interactions.

Because there is an option to not risk anything in powerplay, it pigeon holes players into a purely trade volume and money massing system, AI only grind etc. It is prohibitive to players who would like to impact trade deliveries, piracy etc in a unique way. As a pilot of a new, partially kitted out python with low money reserves, I am compelled to solo play if I need to affect my power in a risky scenario due to the rebuy cost. Additionally, the systems with the most contention are oft devoid of open play opposition.

It is a poor decision to allow solo and private play to impact open players.
Nonetheless, I am curious to see what the forum goers think in a statistical manner and hopefully it could be used as a petition of sorts to CLEARLY state what we (forum posters) want out of the game. In a democracy, votes are used to represent a large body's opinion and are not completely useless. If everybody wanted to have a campfire chat about every nuance on why they vote the way they do, it would be a complete waste of time. I feel like the open vs private megathread IS a waste of time, which is why this thread exists.

Answer the poll here: http://strawpoll.me/4713456

 

[Valethar]

Merge incoming?

 

[Killnetic]

Not without a [Poll]. I would be hard pressed to believe that FDEV wants actual numbers on the open vs private issue. It looks like they would rather lump as many ideas into a megathread to have them disappear forever. If it does get merged and we still don't have a poll, that would be maximum lame. I'm not interested in the specific implementation or fixes, simply the majority overarching opinion on the issue. A, B or C.

 

[Dbrn47]

Polls are meaningless here and were put down for a reason. There's already a discussion on the Solo vs Group vs Open topic.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

That's not FD. Mods aren't employees. Mods are community volunteers.

 

[quickr]

I say, separate the solo and open mode. Let the single player boys and girls have their own little universe where all is good and dandy. And open universe which can only be affected by players who play open mode.

I think power play was supposed to bring more PvP action, but it had opposite effect. Everyone grinding in solo, affecting us open players, and we can't do anything about it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As this has already descended into the Solo vs Open vs Group debate, merging.

It is a poor decision to allow solo and private play to impact open players.

You must have missed DBOBE's interview with Arstechnica at E3 last week where the discussion included the modes:

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

and

There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.

 

[Lestenio]

the simple solution is not to implement PP in solo but only in open

Why? Why isn't the £35 I paid for the game enough to access all the games content. Are you planning to provide me with a partial refund for this and other content you intend to deny me access too?

 

[nedeaalex]

Why? Why isn't the £35 I paid for the game enough to access all the games content. Are you planning to provide me with a partial refund for this and other content you intend to deny me access too?

Why is your Solo mode easier to farm in ?