Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

Been away a few days. Has there been an announcement re: the XBox galaxy? As far as I have read, they will also jave the three game modes and switching....

All players share the same galaxy on every platform and in every mode. Unless you mean the CQC which is separate, but from what I understand there is no galaxy there anyway.

They have misunderstood how the XB version works. If I'm reading that right (pausing at each comma) then they have assumed the XB has its own BGS, which of course we know it does not.
So it is a rehash of the idea "make a new Open only server for people to play on"

Again, if I'm understanding the post properly.

 

[Viajero]

I presume many potential proposals have already been considered, and I remember at some point Sandro Sammarco put up a discussion thread to discuss those in relation with Community Goals.

But I feel I have to add the proposal (that probably has already been discussed anyways) that I feel could work best within the current system in Powerplay:

Context: I do not know if there is a problem with opportunistic or outright switch to Solo in Powerplay. We do no t really have any meaningful figures to go by, and only FDEV knows them. But it is also true that sometimes perceptions can be much more powerful than reality, and can lead to widespread trust deficits. With that in mind I think there may be two potential problems to tackle:

Potential problems:

1- Recurrent opportunistic back and forth switch from Open to Solo/Private, and
2- Risk of a majority of players retreating into Solo/Private in general

As mentioned above I do not know if the above two are actual problems at the moment since all we have is anecdotal and individual evidence. But since perceptions can sometimes be more powerful than reality I see some merit in trying to preempt these potential problems with the right in game incentives. The proposals that I think could be most appropriate for each would be:

Preemptive solutions (at least my preferred ones):

1- Cooldown mode switch of 1 day. Once you start the game in a given mode (i.e. either Open or Solo/Private), you cant switch to the other until 24 hours have passed.
2- Additional effectiveness of Powerplay contributions made in Open with regards to triggers and goal progress (not with regards to rewards and ratings). This means that both Solo/Private and Open players will still benefit in the same way of Power rewards and merits related rating benefits with exactly the same level of activity requirements as of today. The difference will be that merits performed in Open will be multiplied by an arbitrary factor (i.e. 1.1, or 1.15 etc) only with regards to "progress bars" (not for rewards/ratings).

Apologies if these have been already discussed before!

 

[SteveLaw]

Potential problems:

1- Recurrent opportunistic back and forth switch from Open to Solo/Private, and
2- Risk of a majority of players retreating into Solo/Private in general

I would add a third to that.

3 - Solo/Group affects Open. (In all it's various forms.)

It's all been round the wash many times, but I don't think it's a bad idea to restate in a clean and complete way in an attempt to look at it more objectively as a whole. Worth mulling over. I'm sure I'll be back with some ideas/comments at some point.

 

[PhazonAran]

1- Cooldown mode switch of 1 day. Once you start the game in a given mode (i.e. either Open or Solo/Private), you cant switch to the other until 24 hours have passed.

Most of us could live with that, I think. Especially if switching between solo and groups stays without cooldown.

2- Additional effectiveness of Powerplay contributions made in Open with regards to triggers and goal progress (not rewards and ratings). This means that both Solo and Open players will still benefit in the same way of Power rewards and merits related rating benefits with exactly the same level of activity requirements as of today. The difference will be that merits performed in Open will be multiplied by an arbitrary factor (i.e. 1.05, or 1.1 etc) only with regards to "progress bars" (not for merits and rewards/ratings).

This implies that Open is *the* way to play the game, and DBOBE dismissed that during E3. Moreover, one could the "if they did that for Powerplay, they could do it with trading/mining/BHing etc" argument.

 

[Viajero]

I would add a third to that.

3 - Solo/Group affects Open. (In all it's various forms.)

It's all been round the wash many times, but I don't think it's a bad idea to restate in a clean and complete way in an attempt to look at it more objectively as a whole. Worth mulling over. I'm sure I'll be back with some ideas/comments at some point.

With regards to Powerplay that should not be a big issue, as Solo/Private players in both sides compensate each other.

 

[Viajero]

Most of us could live with that, I think. Especially if switching between solo and groups stays without cooldown.



This implies that Open is *the* way to play the game, and DBOBE dismissed that during E3. Moreover, one could the "if they did that for Powerplay, they could do it with trading/mining/BHing etc" argument.

Note that the proposal is Powerplay specific and does not touch rewards or economic benefits at all. The added effectiveness is only with regards to Powerplay progress bars, not rating rewards or any other economic benefit (i.e. mining, trading etc).

 

[PhazonAran]

Note that the proposal is Powerplay specific and does not touch rewards or economic benefits at all. The added effectiveness is only with regards to Powerplay progress bars, not rating rewards or any other economic benefit (i.e. mining, trading etc).

I understand, but how long before people come up with these ? The slippery slope argument, like some like to call it. Some people already ask for bigger rewards in Open in order to attract people.

 

[Mohrgan]

The idea that Open deserves more reward/value for their efforts because of greater risk has largely been debunked. You will find as many comments here on how there is no action in Open, as you do on how there is more danger. The amount of risk you face in open is determined by where you choose to operate. You can't justify a increased reward/value to an entire mode, when that potential risk is so limited.

 

[SteveLaw]

With regards to Powerplay that should not be a big issue, as Solo/Private players in both sides compensate each other.

Oh I complete agree, but it is still one of the more common complaints. Not just Powerplay, but increasingly about PP lately.

It's usually specifically aimed at "we can't stop Solo players Undermining". (Again, I know it doesn't work like that, but that's the criticism.)

 

[Viajero]

The idea that Open deserves more reward/value for their efforts because of greater risk has largely been debunked. You will find as many comments here on how there is no action in Open, as you do on how there is more danger. The amount of risk you face in open is determined by where you choose to operate. You can't justify a increased reward/value to an entire mode, when that potential risk is so limited.

A couple things to consider there:

- The proposal does not offers more rewards/value to Open. I hope it is clear in it that the actual rewards, credits, benefits of rating etc will remain strictly the same for players in all modes. It is only the effectiveness of the "progress bars" that would be decoupled.
- Also, I agree with you on the principle that comparative risk between solo and open is only in the eye of the beholder. But please notice the proposal is meant to address preemptively perceptions that may lead to a break of trust with the system by a sector of the community, irrespective of if these perceptions are correct or not. Only FDEV has the actual figures to back up any decision on the matter. The question is which is the larger and more influential group with regards to influencing potential new and prospective buyers/players? The one that claims that opportunistic Solo/Private is ruining Powerplay or the one of actual Solo players playing Powerplay that would feel upset by this proposal?

 

[Mohrgan]

A couple things to consider there:

- The proposal does not offers more rewards/value to Open. I hope it is clear in it that the actual rewards, credits, benefits of rating etc will remain strictly the same for players in all modes. It is only the effectiveness of the "progress bars" that would be decoupled.
- Also, I agree with you on the principle that comparative risk between solo and open is only in the eye of the beholder. But please notice the proposal is meant to address preemptively perceptions that may lead to a break of trust with the system by a sector of the community, irrespective of if these perceptions are correct or not. Only FDEV has the actual figures to back up any decision on the matter. The question is which is the larger and more influential group with regards to influencing potential new and prospective buyers/players? The one that claims that Solo/Private is ruining Powerplay or the one of actual Solo players playing Powerplay?

I get you. My use of the word value was meant to describe the extra influence a player in open would have, if their input had greater weight (value) than the same action completed in group.

 

[Viajero]

I get you. My use of the word value was meant to describe the extra influence a player in open would have, if their input had greater weight (value) than the same action completed in group.

I know, hence the second bullet in my answer.

 

[Mouse]

2- Additional effectiveness of Powerplay contributions made in Open with regards to triggers and goal progress (not with regards to rewards and ratings). This means that both Solo/Private and Open players will still benefit in the same way of Power rewards and merits related rating benefits with exactly the same level of activity requirements as of today. The difference will be that merits performed in Open will be multiplied by an arbitrary factor (i.e. 1.1, or 1.15 etc) only with regards to "progress bars" (not for rewards/ratings).

Apologies if these have been already discussed before!

My question is why? People in open cannot always see each other there are many factors, It has been stated by open people many times that the risk of open vs solo/private is negligible except for a few key systems. So because of those key systems everyone in open gets an advantage over Solo/group? There is also the question of people feeling it is not enticing people into open but forcing, mainly because to be effective you need to be there. The gripe mainly right now is that people in open are supposedly countered by people in solo/group (without proof but that is the complaint). So now Open will be able to overwhelm progress wise anything the solo/group people do thereby giving credence to the false belief that solo and private are working against open and the only way open can compete is to make them more effective.

 

[Viajero]

My question is why? People in open cannot always see each other there are many factors, It has been stated by open people many times that the risk of open vs solo/private is negligible except for a few key systems. So because of those key systems everyone in open gets an advantage over Solo/group? There is also the question of people feeling it is not enticing people into open but forcing, mainly because to be effective you need to be there. The gripe mainly right now is that people in open are supposedly countered by people in solo/group (without proof but that is the complaint). So now Open will be able to overwhelm progress wise anything the solo/group people do thereby giving credence to the false belief that solo and private are working against open and the only way open can compete is to make them more effective.

I know, and I d agree with you in general. Remember the proposal is very specific and limited to Powerplay. Still, let me quote myself for the main reason:

- Also, I agree with you on the principle that comparative risk between solo and open is only in the eye of the beholder. But please notice the proposal is meant to address preemptively perceptions that may lead to a break of trust with the system by a sector of the community, irrespective of if these perceptions are correct or not. Only FDEV has the actual figures to back up any decision on the matter. In the absence of published data the question then is which is the larger and more influential group with regards to influencing potential new and prospective buyers/players? The one that claims that Solo/Private is ruining Powerplay or the one of actual Solo players playing Powerplay that would feel upset by this proposal?

 

[Roybe]

I understand, but how long before people come up with these ? The slippery slope argument, like some like to call it. Some people already ask for bigger rewards in Open in order to attract people.

The slippery slope is a logical fallacy in debate. Just because something changes it does not stand up to reason that the change would cause a major shift within the larger scope of things.

 

[Roybe]

Honestly, Viajero, I was with you with this debate on Open vs. needing some small modifications to balance the desire of a player to min/max in private with remaining in Open.

As Sara continues to fix the AI, this difference will only be recognized by the players on the extreme right hand side of the curve...NPC interaction will slow down the accrual of benefits so that the choice is ubiquitous to the vast majority of the playerbase.

I never liked the idea of % differences between the modes...but my problem finding radar is much better than my problem solving computer...and couldn't see a way around the issue. Now, as can be seen, the issue is being resolved.

 

[Mouse]

I know, and I d agree with you in general. Remember the proposal is very specific and limited to Powerplay. Still, let me quote myself for the main reason:

Sorry, I guess I muddled the waters some, but I was talking about Open but I was referring to Powerplay over the advantage such a change would give to open and make some feel like they would be forced to play to be effective in Powerplay. I know it is not much of an advantage but it is enough. If Solo and private cancel each other out (as I've been told repeatedly) in Powerplay than why does Open need an incentive to PP?

 

[Herik]

I presume many potential proposals have already been considered, and I remember at some point Sandro Sammarco put up a discussion thread to discuss those in relation with Community Goals.

But I feel I have to add the proposal (that probably has already been discussed anyways) that I feel could work best within the current system in Powerplay:

Context: I do not know if there is a problem with opportunistic or outright switch to Solo in Powerplay. We do no t really have any meaningful figures to go by, and only FDEV knows them. But it is also true that sometimes perceptions can be much more powerful than reality, and can lead to widespread trust deficits. With that in mind I think there may be two potential problems to tackle:

Potential problems:

1- Recurrent opportunistic back and forth switch from Open to Solo/Private, and
2- Risk of a majority of players retreating into Solo/Private in general

As mentioned above I do not know if the above two are actual problems at the moment since all we have is anecdotal and individual evidence. But since perceptions can sometimes be more powerful than reality I see some merit in trying to preempt these potential problems with the right in game incentives. The proposals that I think could be most appropriate for each would be:

Preemptive solutions (at least my preferred ones):

1- Cooldown mode switch of 1 day. Once you start the game in a given mode (i.e. either Open or Solo/Private), you cant switch to the other until 24 hours have passed.
2- Additional effectiveness of Powerplay contributions made in Open with regards to triggers and goal progress (not with regards to rewards and ratings). This means that both Solo/Private and Open players will still benefit in the same way of Power rewards and merits related rating benefits with exactly the same level of activity requirements as of today. The difference will be that merits performed in Open will be multiplied by an arbitrary factor (i.e. 1.1, or 1.15 etc) only with regards to "progress bars" (not for rewards/ratings).

Apologies if these have been already discussed before!

So Solo play in PP could not contribute to or hinder any kind of Powerplay; effectively giving no reason for those Solo players to (play) in 'the background simulation'.

Seems unfair to me...

 

[CreepyD]

Heh this discussion goes in circles.

Powerplay is a multiplayer addition to the game, hence the suggestion (similar to one I made earlier) that maybe you need to be in Open to properly affect what is purely a multiplayer aspect of the game.

It's not going to change though, I'm not sure why this thread persists really

 

[Jockey79]

Preemptive solutions (at least my preferred ones):

1- Cooldown mode switch of 1 day. Once you start the game in a given mode (i.e. either Open or Solo/Private), you cant switch to the other until 24 hours have passed.

Short answer: No.

Long answer;

I've been known to switch two to three times a night, depending on what group of friends is online. I have friends from all over the world I play with and depending when they come online and what their plans are, I need to jump to whatever mode or group they are in.

By placing any form of lockout (which goes against the KS information in post 3) you'd be making sure I cannot play with different friends as they come and go throughout the night.

This does not include when I jump in to Solo to move my ship or quickly run and change ships ready for whatever I'm doing with the next group who comes online. I get messages in Steam, on Teamspeak (I even get text messages on my mobile from some gamers I play with) asking or arranging what the plan is for when folks get online.

I have friends who only play in their own private groups (lucky me, those two play at different times), I have friends who only play in Open and I have friends who jump from group to group like myself (including making use of the Mobius Group).

I make full use of "Play your way" with a hint of "there is no right way" (both FD quotes listed in post three of this thread)

- - - Updated - - -

Heh this discussion goes in circles.

Powerplay is a multiplayer addition to the game, hence the suggestion (similar to one I made earlier) that maybe you need to be in Open to properly affect what is purely a multiplayer aspect of the game.

???

Where does it say PP is a "multiplayer addon".
Please, link me where you've seen FD say PP is for multiplayer......

Edit:

Here you go, from post three in this thread. A quote from DBOBE and the AMA thread;


"We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too."