Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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atak2
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If I bought the router I wanted - I couldn't afford to have any friends, or a place to live
I have to give you rep. I don't want to but I'm compelled to.
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But where's your facts and statistics? Only Fd can know for sure!
Ask Jockey. King and guardian of FD facts.... Oh wait....
But the thing is, Solo/Group folks keep beating back the same specious arguments and misconceptions.
Go through the thread and posters and you soon see, my wall of text had to go up every 15 - 20 pages (default layout, thread 1 ended on page 667) - plus others quoted it on top of me posting it.
So it is not just, status quo advocates posting a lot - you have to think about how many times they've had to post the same stuff over and over, for each new open advocate.
Also, you can see, that the "problem" of modes, is only perceived by a few - otherwise there would be more open advocates in that list.
So the game cannot be as "broken" as some of the Open people suggest
Me too. I'm tempted to PM him and update him that we have threadnought 2 underway.
Particularly on the forum. Even more so on this thread. In fact I believe Jockey posted up a handy table on the top 20 or 30 posters or so. Have a check how many are solo/group posters
In fact I would love to post Jockey's table again. If anyone has issues with their status I can correct it:
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I have already made an error Nedaalex is open.
Asp Explorer is not Solo/Group - he is <Router Fiddling>
Another assumption based on bad research, please do correct it!
I played in open from PB to mid gamma, well over half the time I have played in total, I had more time last year than more recently so I would guess overall ~ 70% open, 25% solo, 5% group, I should stop reading the forums, its making me antisocial, even groups take a hit because of it.
atak2
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Its simple why. You et al. keep drowning the thread. Nobody posts on the thread except a few brave souls because they know there is a overwhelming group waiting for them with snarky replies if they dare post.
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So you are currently Solo/Group since Gamma. Your stance remains.
The thing is a lot of the time it was a thread getting merged so everything was out of context or a random player would jump in and say "solo should be scrapped" (you know what I mean) and then disappear never to be seen in the thread again.
Most of the people wanting changes don't bother with the forum as they feel they can't speak about pvp without it being pulled off track and dumped here and then get labelled as wanting to change the modes. I sympathize though as when I started an open thread I had to fend off just as many open people calling for solo to be removed as I did pve players trying to derail the thread to this
The main problems do come from the cgs and that doesn't fall under your list any more since Sandro spoke about it.
Backhanded remark.... really?
I've consistently and continuously posted the intent and design of the game - as stated by FD, using their quotes, their videos and their blogs/diaries, but somehow using actual information from the company making the game qualifies me for derogatory remarks?
This is why Open advocates cannot win this "debate". I can bring actual, stated facts by Frontier and by David Braben OBE - you guys have............. ?????????????
atak2
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Old posts and a lot of his tone has changed since those days. You are living in the past.
Also please look at Sandro's posts on the front page of this thread. He is considering a lot of things that do not coincide with your "facts".
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atak2
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Should not have boasted!
Thanks for mislabelling me, I will refrain from doing the same to you.
Now what was that research thingy I quote now and again, let me think.
Oh yes, "some people didn't research the game before they bought it, that's a problem with the buyer not the game", or your version of research...... "I posted my best guess without any research, feel free to correct me if you see this post", wow I think you might be right if only 10% of the people you added your labels to read the post the facts will support you.
PS, feel free to correct the entry next to my name at your earliest convenience, tyvm, unless OFC you somehow remember the last year of my life better than I do (If you do I need to ask you something quite personal, about a party I was at last November but I will do it via PM
(that CMDR Redwine ), tell me my DOB and I will confide in you, otherwise correct it please!).Sandro, is just 1 person - and last time I checked, he was not in charge of FD - he was an employee of FD.
A lot of my "wall" comes from David Braben OBE... (videos and blogs) who, last time I checked, out "ranks" Sandro and quite a few others (everyone who posts).... so until DB-OBE tells me my "wall" is outdated, or gives new info that actually does update my "wall" - All the information is still valid and up to date.
This game is trying to give all players, of all backgrounds and all skill levels something in common - it is a noble goal for FD to try, and I admire them for it.
That being said, my personal opinion is - that is the worst idea known to mankind. A game, should be "defined" - it should be made for a target audience and focus on those people, not a "jack of all trades, master of none".
While I do think this can work for a few people, we've already exceeded "a few", then this thread and others like it spawn, because of a few folks wanting a "generalised" game to actually pick a direction and go with it.
atak2
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Thanks for mislabelling me, I will refrain from doing the same to you.
Now what was that research thingy I quote now and again, let me think.
Oh yes, "some people didn't research the game before they bought it, that's a problem with the buyer not the game", or your version of research...... "I posted my best guess without any research, feel free to correct me if you see this post", wow I think you might be right if only 10% of the people you added your labels to read the post the facts will support you.
PS, feel free to correct the entry next to my name at your earliest convenience, tyvm, unless OFC you somehow remember the last year of my life better than I do (If you do I need to ask you something quite personal, about a party I was at last November but I will do it via PM
Good try but they are my views on what type of player posted in the last thread. In my view your stance in the last thread heavily outweighs whatever you did in Open. If the mods take issue, of course they can remove it or ask me to alter it.
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Until the dev team tell me in no uncertain terms in May 2015 they are not considering the Open Vs Solo Vs Group question I will keep posting.
This is the crux of the issue tbh and one of the reasons why there is call for separation of modes. Take missiles and mines for example, they were designed with traders in mind to pack a punch like in the older games. In open they were heavily abused and all missile related weapons and their counter measures have been pretty much rendered ineffective for everyone unless you're only coming up against shieldless npcs.
Next look at the current interdiction and masslock mechanics, they work fine for solo play to escape npcs but in open it renders any combat ship unkillable and is a death sentence for traders. Since there's no cooldown on interdiction pirates can't risk chatting to traders and haggling and instead have to shoot first and ask questions later.
As you know I'm not trying to split the modes I'm just giving some examples as to why the current mode situation has affected both communities negatively because of FD trying to make a game that caters to everyone instead of focusing on one or each mode separately.
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If you want to judge people by forum posts, then you may want to read the first 30 pages (default layout) of the last thread - where Open advocates accused everyone not playing in Open of;
1) being "cowards"
2) being "scared"
3) being "chicken"
4) "exploiting" the game by using the modes
5) "cheating" in game, by using the modes
And my personal favorite, the poster who alluded to the sentiment;
"I didn't serve in the armed forces, for you to hide in Solo Mode"
Do you REALLY want to get into "type of player" arguments?
I can make Open advocates look really bad by putting those quotes here.... I'm trying not to do that, as I know you are not all like that - but if you want to go there...
atak2
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They were not my claims except switching game modes possibly... I regard mode switching fine apart from when you do it to compete in a CG, Powerplay feature or for monetary gain and combat logging during combat.
I would not personally take action against these players but I would state my worries on a forum - ergo you see my problems stated in this thread.
People can judge me however they deem. I am not immune from labeling. If you have one for me Jockey. Please disclose it.
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I really want more people in open because I think of how much fun a lot of players could have just from seeing other people. This isn't aimed at the die hard solo players you're happy where you are.
When I got ED it was because I played frontier back in the day and thought of how cool it would be if all the other ships were people. Having a taste of that is great.
I fully accept the problems with crime and that it needs a hell of a lot of work to make it safe for your average player. All I'm saying is don't give up on open just yet but right now it's probably not for the fainthearted.
That being said there's only about 20 systems that are pirated (well known traderoutes), about 4 stations that have ram griefers and community goals that are the dangerous places. There's always an unerlying element of danger in open but it's not the hell hole it's made out to be.
Also I've only been to the Lave area once. I find a lot of common sense is needed in any open game world. Even as a pirate it's dangerous so I do the sensible thing and stay away
As always I'm perfectly happy with mode switching, I personally think they should add a pve open and the only thing that should be changed is something to do with the cgs.
Again we agree on nearly everything, I have never said I won't ever play in open again, I just won't play there right now as I regularly see people on this forum that I would not want to spend a moment of my game time with. Open could be a really fun place when crime & punishment works properly.
The only problem with "about 20 systems that are pirated" for me is they picked the old worlds, the lave cluster, the place I first started back in 84/85, if they picked somewhere near sagi I would be fine, but I guess there are not many rares there.
I think the crime system is pivotal to the game, there is a lot to add, I have never pirated (well a few AI in Beta) but it makes sense that there should be pirate rep & bad places that normal traders wont dare go, places that pay pirates over the market price because no one else will deliver there, something to make me look at the map rather than just type in the destination and hit jump without a care if every stop is highly policed or a total hell hole.
See, again - this one is hard for me.
I recently seen a picture, based in humour, where it showed the same situation twice.
There was a person, stuck in a hole in the ground - the hole was deeper than they could climb out of.
In frame 1, there was another person reaching down to try and help them - but could not quite reach them.... there was a ladder on the ground next to them.
(moral = some people look like they are trying to help - but they are not)
In frame 2, the same as above apart from, the ladder was in the hole with the "stuck" person.
(moral = not everyone who asks for help, actually needs it)
To me, Open players (on the forums) are going on and on about "disadvantages" in open - yet is the second part of that story. You have everything you need to solve your own problems, yet you are asking for help.
A lot of FD's failing is human nature based imo and not a dig at FD. By putting rares in the old systems they turned it in to a hell hole, I don't blame the players really. IMO all the rares should be in proper anarchy systems which would actually make them rare and put a bit of logic in to the game (they're rare coz no one will risk going to get them).
By the "20 systems" I wasn't actually talking about the Lave cluster as that goes without saying
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atak2
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Honestly, I think the same way. I really want Crime punishment to really mean that high security is say 99% safe from pirates/psychos. I want medium and low security places to get less secure. Anarchy is well... anarchy.
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Your parables do not cover me Jockey. This is another case of your bias.
If I bought the router I wanted - I couldn't afford to have any friends, or a place to live
Citation please
, its not that I do not believe you, I just want to see your wishlist - Status