Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Zenicetus]

i just believe that player should not be able to switch cmdr from solo to open and back. For the same reasons in World of Warcraft you can't just login a toon from a PVE server to a PVP server.

No, but you can self-flag for PvP on a World of Warcraft PvE server in a way that's similar to ED. You just don't have to log out of the game and back in, to do it. There are also Battlegrounds for consensual PvP on PvE servers, which is another form of "mode switching."

Freedom of choice is a selling point, and one reason WoW is so popular. Last time I checked, the servers on WoW where you can do this type of mode switching (PvE and RP) made up about 60% of the total servers available. Pure PvP servers were around 40%. It's a popular feature on WoW, and it's popular here in ED too. It also means ED can offer something different from the major competitors like Star Citizen and EvE Valkyrie, which will be 100% PvP (as far as I can tell).

 

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

No, but you can self-flag for PvP on a World of Warcraft PvE server in a way that's similar to ED. You just don't have to log out of the game and back in, to do it. There are also Battlegrounds for consensual PvP on PvE servers, which is another form of "mode switching."

Freedom of choice is a selling point, and one reason WoW is so popular. Last time I checked, the servers on WoW where you can do this type of mode switching (PvE and RP) made up about 60% of the total servers available. Pure PvP servers were around 40%. It's a popular feature on WoW, and it's popular here in ED too. It also means ED can offer something different from the major competitors like Star Citizen and EvE Valkyrie, which will be 100% PvP (as far as I can tell).

I agree with freedom of choice. I just don't agree that the "pvp server" should offer possibility to opt out of pvp. The choice between solo/open choice really should be made at commander creation, and each player should be able to create 1 commander for open and 1 commander for solo. In addition "solo" should not actually be pure solo, but offer the opportunity and freedom to have consensual pvp, pvp flagging.

 

[BlackReign]

Geez,

The game is fine just the way it is. Solo for those that don't want human interaction, Open for those that want human interaction.

How I choose to play the game is up to me, and likewise for you! There's no benefit in removing any of these modes, thereby removing player choice.
Plain and simple. Done.

 

[Zenicetus]

I agree with freedom of choice. I just don't agree that the "pvp server" should offer possibility to opt out of pvp. The choice between solo/open choice really should be made at commander creation, and each player should be able to create 1 commander for open and 1 commander for solo. In addition "solo" should not actually be pure solo, but offer the opportunity and freedom to have consensual pvp, pvp flagging.

I respect your opinion for how the game should have been designed, but it's not how the game was actually designed, and there is no sign that it will ever be changed. It's hard to imagine (for me, anyway) how changing the current design could even be done at all, without losing a large portion of the community who backed the game from the start, based on the current design.

It's fine to express an opinion, but saying the game "should" be something different at this stage, is tilting at windmills (IMO). I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

 

[Milky82]

I agree with freedom of choice. I just don't agree that the "pvp server" should offer possibility to opt out of pvp. The choice between solo/open choice really should be made at commander creation, and each player should be able to create 1 commander for open and 1 commander for solo. In addition "solo" should not actually be pure solo, but offer the opportunity and freedom to have consensual pvp, pvp flagging.

Some people haven't got time to buildup 2 commanders, so it makes sense to me to have one commader to fit all. This allows players to play as they wish, why is this such a problem for people is beyond me. No one is being cheated and its a level playing field for all.

 

[Uueerdo]

For the same reasons in World of Warcraft you can't just login a toon from a PVE server to a PVP server.

I never played WoW, so can you clarify something for me. I thought I read elsewhere that you can transfer toons been servers. Is this not the case?

 

[DaveB]

This is rather simple.

People DID their research. Some thought they were buying a MULTIPLAYER game you can PLAY WITH FRIENDS.

And all they got is a single player game, with multiplayer and co-op parts bugged / non functional / non existent.

Fills the definition of scam in my book.

Badger, Ive done my best, I've tried to listen to your viewpoint. You really hate this game, that's obvious from your entire posting history and I'm sorry you feel that way. But I'm done listening to you fail to consider peoples responses to you, fail to to do anything but beat on the same old dead horse (which was beaten into puree before you joined the forums, btw) *plonk*

 

[OBoile]

Ok.

So my bait worked.

Now, you people say you want a fair fight right ? You want PvP to be fair ?

So, how is this fair, when somebody makes A TON OF MONEY, trading OFFLINE and then switches to ONLINE and blows my PKr's *** out of the sky with his vastly superior ship, he earned in the safety of offline mode ?

How is that fair ?

Or you could just, you know, try to answer the question.

Assuming you have an answer, not just some puerile attempt at being clever.

Edit: Reading this thread through I am starting to understand things.

Some people think fair means "the same for everyone" others seem to think fair means "what suits me most". I can assure people it is the former.

There was nothing stopping either of you from doing the exact same thing (building up in solo mode). So yes, this is the same for everyone and thus completely fair.

 

[SKudder]

I never played WoW, so can you clarify something for me. I thought I read elsewhere that you can transfer toons been servers. Is this not the case?

You can transfer toons between all servers in your region but this costs you real money (€ 20, as I remember).

 

[Rivka]

I never played WoW, so can you clarify something for me. I thought I read elsewhere that you can transfer toons been servers. Is this not the case?

You can transfer toons between all servers in your region but this costs you real money (€ 20, as I remember).

The exception to this is PvP servers. You cannot transfer from PvE to PvP. If you transfer from PvP to PvE, you can't go back. You can transfer freely from PvP to PvP.

 

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

I respect your opinion for how the game should have been designed, but it's not how the game was actually designed, and there is no sign that it will ever be changed. It's hard to imagine (for me, anyway) how changing the current design could even be done at all, without losing a large portion of the community who backed the game from the start, based on the current design.

It's fine to express an opinion, but saying the game "should" be something different at this stage, is tilting at windmills (IMO). I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

Should as in my opinion it should.

 

[OBoile]

One that can only be made once. Can't flip flop in and out of the running like you can flip flop in and out of solo. Once you go solo you are disqualified. Why do you think they made that distinction?

So again, I agree choice is good. Make it once and stick with it.
People can try to put words in my mouth all they want but I still say feel free to choose Open, Group, or Solo but it isn't FAIR to be allowed to move between the modes as it confers advantage. The rules of the Race to Elite seem to suggest the devs concur.

People can claim that if you stand on one leg, put your head to one side, squint down your nose and pat the top of the head that things can be said to be fair either way.

But we ALL know that isn't really so. ALL of us.

If everyone has the same advantage (they do) then it isn't unfair. If you choose to waive that advantage in order to participate in the race to elite, that is your choice.

Furthermore, the advantage is miniscule at best. Certainly not worth the attention it's getting (but I guess you can't think of a better excuse).

 

[SKudder]

The exception to this is PvP servers. You cannot transfer from PvE to PvP. If you transfer from PvP to PvE, you can't go back. You can transfer freely from PvP to PvP.

No, that is not correct. Blizzard changed this some years ago. And that was IMHO a good decision.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

There was nothing stopping either of you from doing the exact same thing (building up in solo mode). So yes, this is the same for everyone and thus completely fair.

You don't get the point. Traders vs PvPers (or bounty hunters).

- The trader has AN EASY MODE option available for him
- The PvPer has ZERO EASY MODE options available for him (if there was a PvP arena where we could farm credits by consensual PvP, that would be our equivalent of "easy mode")

The design clearly favors only one gameplay style.

Hold on there for a sec. I think you meant will Kill the game for you. It's not killing it for me! Please don't consider me in your argument here.

Statistics bro. I'm only including statistics. It will not kill the game for you. I'm happy for you. I really am.

The thing is, you will be in a MINORITY. :|

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I agree with freedom of choice. I just don't agree that the "pvp server" should offer possibility to opt out of pvp. The choice between solo/open choice really should be made at commander creation, and each player should be able to create 1 commander for open and 1 commander for solo. In addition "solo" should not actually be pure solo, but offer the opportunity and freedom to have consensual pvp, pvp flagging.

Actually, if you engage in PvP (i.e. get a bounty on your head) you cannot opt out of Open. Solo offers more than just not seeing anyone, it offers a low bandwidth lag free connection, so PvP flagging is nonsense as the Bandwidth needed would be the same as Open. A non-starter I'm afraid. When multi commander slots come you can choose to create a commander for each different mode. However the key word will always be 'Choice.'

 

[Rivka]

No, that is not correct. Blizzard changed this some years ago. And that was IMHO a good decision.

Consider me corrected, then! I've only got secondhand experience with WoW, the Significant Other used to play.

 

[snowleopard]

Either forcing everyone in the open or restricting switching between groups is impractical. As it has been explained already countless times there are multiple ways to play in Open and yet never be matched with anyone ( throttling down your bandwidth, blocking/filtering p2p ports, connecting through proxy in different region etc) so forcing everyone to choose will simply mean people will choose open but setup their networks to simulate solo. Someone mentioned that even though this is currently not against TOS/EULA FDEV could make it so. Fair enough, they could, but apart from PR uproar this will inevitably cause, they will have no way of policing it (there are some fancy ways but they are prohibitively expensive and illegal in EU for example). Notice how lead designer in another thread says they cannot do much about combat logging - this is for exactly the same reason. P2P is what it is.
Asking FDEV to change the network architecture post-release... Well its like asking to change walls in the already built house from stone to wood.

On the conceptual level - I am no psychologist but if you separate open from groups/solo wouldn't group like Möbius become the new open and olthey'den would be empty? You cannot force people to play how they don't want - and if you do they will try to find workarounds/loopholes etc

 

[Uueerdo]

- The PvPer has ZERO EASY MODE options available for him

I thought that was hunting traders in open.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

(if there was a PvP arena where we could farm credits by consensual PvP, that would be our equivalent of "easy mode")
|

Conflict Zones?

If not enough People there you can farm some NPCs while waiting, it should work as that easy mode of yours pretty good.

But you will never change the Fact that somone who dosn't seek PvP/PvE will alaways have it easier to get what he wants, simply because he doesn't need the Help of other People to get what he want. You also can't change that fighting NPCs in most cases is easier then fighthing Human Players, so kinda have to accept that you choose a more difficult route when you only want to do PvP.

You choose to go down a more difficult route and you choose to limit yourself in what tools the Game gives you you want to use. And thats great, you should do that when you want, but don't go and demand that every player should get the same Limits if they want or not. Thats silly.

 

[chagnampra]

I love the choice of Open, Group and Solo. I plan to dip into each one whenever I feel like it. I love player choice, after all - who wouldn't?

I first played in open mode more or less up to obtaining enough money to fully own and outfit an Asp. However, I'm now more inclined to use solo mode for pure trading, now I own a Type 7. Since this is a huge investment for me (and purely a trading vessel), I can fully understand the desire to play in solo mode to simply grind for credits, (to allow for the ownership, upgrading and - crucially - RUNNING of higher end vessels.) Ideally, I would like to obtain enough cash to afford a fully kitted out Python, which I've heard is a great multi-purpose ship.

I suppose, the key thing for me is time. I don't have great amounts of time to play this game; so, what time I do have, I'd like to spend mostly moving forward towards my 'credit goal', rather than recovering from needlessly being destroyed by another player. I guess I could do this in open as I am engaging in trading 'off the beaten track' - I still might consider this. (I would tend to avoid the core systems, of course (Lave, etc)...too many player interdictors).

[Incidentally, I know grinding is, by definition, a repetitive task, but I still find it quite relaxing and satisfying ... up to a point, of course! ]

However, I also enjoy dipping my toe in the water of open play with my cobra. It's kitted out nicely but cheap enough to replace several times over. (I am fully aware that my PvP skills are somewhat limited) I mostly bounty hunt or practice general combat in this ship, to add a little variety to proceedings.

My personal goal is to own a higher end multi-purpose ship (the Python), after which I will mostly play in open, or group, mode. For me, my reason for playing this game is to enjoy the simulation and experience, while trying to avoid frustration for as long as possible! I don't seek PvP play, but if it finds me, I would like to reach the stage when I accept victory and defeat in the same way - in that, it's all part of the game, and that the loss of cash isn't such a significant waste of time. Not quite there, yet.

Anyway, choice is good. I realise FD are still balancing the game, as there are obviously aspects which still need work; but the core experience is good enough for everyone to find something which suits them.