Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Riktar]

People who play solo dont want to risk death at all.

No arguing that the above statement is true for some solo players. But it does not apply to ALL solo traders.

As someone who primarily plays Mobius and occasionally plays open I will tell you that I my biggest problem is the "skipping/juddering/peek-a-boo/now you see me, now you don't" gameplay I experience when I get into an instance with more than 5 players. And as I understand it, if I am experiencing this game-killing lag, EVERYONE else in my instance is getting dragged down with me.

So for me, its the "danger" of trying to play without "killing" my experience and (possibly) others who are in the game with me.

Living out in a rural area has its benefits, but speedy, reliable internet is not one of them,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Cowboy Bats]

But in the same time i have to sit and watch how people leave the only mode that has actually player VS player interaction...

I'm honestly not trying to sound rude, but that's a personal problem. The game has multiple game modes, including an online single player. You cannot force people to play in your mode with you, no matter how much you may want to. Those players are just not going to cooperate and be your content. You are instead going to have to content yourself with playing with like-minded players. The pve players would quit before they'll be your content.

You keep repeating "multiplayer" over and over as though if you repeat it enough it will become true. Face facts: The game ships with solo, group, and open as options. There is no arguing that BY DESIGN THE GAME IS MEANT TO PLAYED IN MULTIPLE WAYS. FD gave you open to play multiplayer, but nowhere did anyone guarantee you that the game mode would populated to your satisfaction. That's contingent on the willingness of other players, and that is not going to change.

 

[Iain M Norman]

I think it's important to remember that when someone switches modes it's not necessarily a permanent decision they are making.

 

[DarkWalker]

But here is the only one small problem. You like solo or pure PvE and thats fine, you can do it solo or with friends. But PvP-oriented people need a decent player base. And this is why solo and private are a "problem" for us, specially because we cant even stop people from changing the universe because its connected to all 3 modes. So you tell me that i have no right to force anyone - yeah. But in the same time i have to sit and watch how people leave the only mode that has actually player VS player interaction...

Or, rather, watch how you and those that think like you drive those players away from your chosen mode. This phenomenon is an old one, studied since at least the 90s (though back then the games it affected were MUDs).

I would say that the moment, in the story of MMOs, where the expectations that PvPers will always have easier prey were dashed out was when UO first separated its game world into PvE Trammel and PvP Felucca. Which it did, BTW, because the game had a huge issue of PvP driving away most of the players; you might find Gordon Walter's posts on the subject interesting, he was the dev responsible for splintering UO's world in twain.

There are also other accounts of what happened, and why that model isn't coming back, such as the one penned by Lum the Mad (AKA Scott Jennings), a player whose "rants" earned such respect from developers that they would often be found discussing game development aspects on his forum, and later he was hired by one such dev when the company he worked for went under.

Since those old days, players became aware that they had options. That they didn't need to be entertainment for other, more bloodthirsty players. People not interested in the PvP aspect started to leave games where they could be attacked and move to the many games that strictly controlled PvP, applying a consent-only policy, which is to say most MMOs created ever since EverQuest.

So, don't expect to find sheep aplenty. You will only find playing as sheep those players that actually enjoy playing in that role; the ones that would rather not have bloodthirsty wolves after them will be playing somewhere you can't touch them, either from the start or once you give them your kind "incentive" to move on. And even if the game were to remove those safe havens they still wouldn't join you in your game; as UO's experience shows, they would likely leave the game in troves instead.

 

[Jockey79]

... But PvP-oriented people need a decent player base. .....

So do what Mobius did, make a group with set rules to play YOUR way and try to advertise it and get people to join - I'll even change my Sig to advertise your group for you.
Heck, as the leading poster in this thread..... people will see your group advert lots

 

[DarkWalker]

I think it's important to remember that when someone switches modes it's not necessarily a permanent decision they are making.

As long as the current model is kept. If, on the other hand, the different modes were segregated, with different saves per mode — as some people want — then the decision would likely be permanent, even if technically the player was free to start anew in another mode.

Which is why, deep inside, I'm not completely against segregating open from the other modes; I'm fairly sure it would further reduce the number of players in open, making those same people that argued for the segregation do an about-face and ask for the segregation to be lifted. And, while I do think it would be bad for the game as a whole, that segregation wouldn't quite affect me, as I don't enjoy that passes for PvP in ED anyway.

 

[Riktar]

So do what Mobius did, make a group with set rules to play YOUR way and try to advertise it and get people to join - I'll even change my Sig to advertise your group for you.
Heck, as the leading poster in this thread..... people will see your group advert lots

I will even volunteer penning the slogan:

Slaying the Environment
A Private Dedicated PkP Group
Group Name: Shoot Everything-ius​

My apologies to Mobius,,,,,,,,,,

 

[cryon1cang3l]

So do what Mobius did, make a group with set rules to play YOUR way and try to advertise it and get people to join - I'll even change my Sig to advertise your group for you.
Heck, as the leading poster in this thread..... people will see your group advert lots

Well there are already groups that found a different way than Möbius (sry for the german writing style^^).
I`m already in one of these groups and i`m pretty happy so far with the organisation and the playstyle.
I have even more options, considering that i can speak german and russian too (both native), that expands the possible group/clan/guild range.

But for me - i`m more of the background guy, not someone who likes to organise and rule the whole thing, i had this role in a pretty hardcore WoW guild and it was more work than my actual work where i earn money. So for me the only option is: keep doing my stuff and enjoy the game so far, wait for patches and hope that something will drive people into the multiplayer mode. Right now the game offers not enough to play in groups or in open (most of the time). More risk in open, same rewards. Less rewards in groups (except trading, but the reward is pretty low for a grind-heavy game). Most things done in a wing dont help with the credits, mission progress or community goals. Nothing wrong about it, but right now playing solo will increase your profit. Generally nothing wrong about it, but right now there is no real benefit of playing open for most people. Maybe this will change too, that will bring people back to open - more cash, higher risk - that would help.

 

[Dave1235]

Sure. Some people who dont invest time in games, will always fall behind, this is normal. But in a multiplayer game with pvp enabled by default most people not only fall behind, they are food for anyone who polished his skills and/or has way better gear etc.

But here is the only one small problem. You like solo or pure PvE and thats fine, you can do it solo or with friends. But PvP-oriented people need a decent player base. And this is why solo and private are a "problem" for us, specially because we cant even stop people from changing the universe because its connected to all 3 modes. So you tell me that i have no right to force anyone - yeah. But in the same time i have to sit and watch how people leave the only mode that has actually player VS player interaction...

Some people avoid open as they do not wish to meet some of the people they meet in the forums in their game.

So PVP has a problem? not really down to me to fix it, you work out how to stop people leaving.

I will give you a clue, its not by separating modes, that would just ensure I never played in open again.

 

[iain666]

Sure. Some people who dont invest time in games, will always fall behind, this is normal. But in a multiplayer game with pvp enabled by default most people not only fall behind, they are food for anyone who polished his skills and/or has way better gear etc.

Are you trying to say "waah, I can't find easy fights, I'm going to end up as food, I need people less practised than me to pick on, waah"? That's certainly what it sounds like.

 

[chagnampra]

I think it's important to remember that when someone switches modes it's not necessarily a permanent decision they are making.

Exactly. I find that each mode serves a specific purpose, giving me what I need from the game at any particular time.

For example, when I get home from work and I'm too tired to be bothered with any form of PvP, I do some trading in a private group (Möbius) and find it incredibly relaxing. I enjoy interacting with other commanders along the way, finding them mostly pleasant and helpful. (Having played a lot of Open through Beta and beyond, this came as quite a shock - people apologising for clipping your ship coming through the station's letterbox, instead of just routinely ramming into you. Wow... )

On other occasions, I'm up for more exciting player encounters. So, I load up my alternative reasonably-priced ship (the Cobra MK III is my favourite) and try to complete some missions in Open, also maybe doing a bit of rare trading and running the pirate gauntlet. (When Power Play is released, I look forward to playing in Open at the different risk RES types for miners, pirates and bounty hunters alike.) When I say player encounters, I don't necessarily mean PvP - I am neither very good at or very interested in PvP. For me, the point of playing in Open is to add that extra dimension of uncertainty to a game that can (in other game modes) become somewhat predictable.

Oh, and the point of having a cheaper ride is purely one of finances and time - I don't have the time or inclination to constantly be trying to recover my lost insurance costs every time I die. Anyway, the Cobra is a FAST ship and I can possibly get as much satisfaction from outrunning a pirate / potential murderer as I can from destroying them!

Finally, when I am on the go and play ED using my tethered phone's internet connection, I play Solo mode to reduce the risk of lag. In addition, if I want to compete a task quickly, due to not having much time to play the game, I may choose Solo as well - a good example would be farming for combat bonds or bounties at a RES site during a CG. (I think it's clear that most players who end up at the top of such CG leaderboards are likely either solo or private group players.)

TL: DR. My point is: most of the time, I like to play the different modes in ED to fit in with the way I personally like to spend my recreation time - which generally is divided into time spent either winding down (Private Group), getting wound up, or excited (Open) or just using my time wisely to fulfill a personally designated in-game task, such as a CG, or due to bandwidth issues (Solo).

This may be mode-switching, but is there anything wrong with it?

 

[Fire70]

Wrong.

"Refuted" items include (but not limited to);

1) This *IS* a PvP game
2) This *IS* a pure multiplayer game
3) Open Mode is the *CORRECT* way to play the game
4) The game *IS BROKEN*
5) *COWARDS* hide in Solo Mode
6) Mode switching *IS AN EXPLOIT*

These are all things, stated as facts, that have been refuted / debunked / disproven for the tosh they are, they are also the basis for a lot of the arguments against Modes in the thread.
My wall of text shoots down all of those in one go.

Look back at your own points - you'll see how they fit into that list and how we can so quickly and easily answer you (lots of practice for me )

Really you refuted all of these because you seem to have a differing opinion?? Well congratulations you have won the internet..

I suppose because of your brilliance in pervasive arguments you have also proven:

1. All open players are griefers and cheats.
2. One bad experience in open means you must never go there again.
3. All open players hate solo players.
4. PVE is by far the best way to experience the game.
5 All PVP interaction is bad.
6. Using hysteria and half truths is a good why to get more people into our PVE group..

Well done sir I bow down to you..

Perhaps for you. For those less skilled in piloting, a Competent NPC Clipper may pose a significant threat.

I am far from a "skilled" pilot but once I jumped out of a side winder NPC's were no longer a threat. Even trading 99% you get interdicted by a Sidewinder or maybe a Viper at worse and if not then you just boost away.

Otherwise you can choose where to go.

How arrogant are you !?

Twice now you've been told, not everyone is an uber l33t madz skillzzz pilot.

Some of us have families, hobbies and other things to do. For those people, NPCs can be quite the challenge, especially when in an unarmed (or lightly armed) trade ship.
Just because you can sit honing your combat skills, I've got better things to be doing. And to be quite frank, I play to relax and be sociable with people I know in real life.

I've told you again and again - the sales pitch for the game is "Play your way" not play how you say.

Pot meet kettle..

Only difference you have been showing the same arrogance in huge quantity of posts in this thread..

Oh it seems you have again proven you are the only player with families RL etc and PVP fan boys spend hours honing their skills to grief poor traders just going about their business..

Man I don't see why these guys are even trying to put across a opposing view cause you got them covered..

 

[fademist]

Really you refuted all of these because you seem to have a differing opinion?? Well congratulations you have won the internet..

I suppose because of your brilliance in pervasive arguments you have also proven:

1. All open players are griefers and cheats.
2. One bad experience in open means you must never go there again.
3. All open players hate solo players.
4. PVE is by far the best way to experience the game.
5 All PVP interaction is bad.
6. Using hysteria and half truths is a good why to get more people into our PVE group..

Find hes posts that he ACTUALLY claim that points 1st

 

[Faded Glory]

Really you refuted all of these because you seem to have a differing opinion?? Well congratulations you have won the internet..

I suppose because of your brilliance in pervasive arguments you have also proven:

1. All open players are griefers and cheats.
2. One bad experience in open means you must never go there again.
3. All open players hate solo players.
4. PVE is by far the best way to experience the game.
5 All PVP interaction is bad.
6. Using hysteria and half truths is a good why to get more people into our PVE group..

Well done sir I bow down to you..



I am far from a "skilled" pilot but once I jumped out of a side winder NPC's were no longer a threat. Even trading 99% you get interdicted by a Sidewinder or maybe a Viper at worse and if not then you just boost away.

Otherwise you can choose where to go.



Pot meet kettle..

Only difference you have been showing the same arrogance in huge quantity of posts in this thread..

Oh it seems you have again proven you are the only player with families RL etc and PVP fan boys spend hours honing their skills to grief poor traders just going about their business..

Man I don't see why these guys are even trying to put across a opposing view cause you got them covered..

To be fair, the points you quote from Jockey79 are all accusations that at one time or another are / have been leveled in this thread against players who choose Group or Solo play over Open, and are pretty derogatory and insulting, especially considering we are talking about a game here. Your points, 1 through 5, I don't think I have seen that often, if at all. As for trying to get more people into PvE groups, generally that 'offer' is made when someone does come to the forum having had a bad experience, and I don't think anyone really feels they need more people in said groups.

Regarding piloting skills, for sure it is a pretty small chance that you will get destroyed by an NPC. I doubt Frontier want to antagonize their player base by killing them off every time they leave a space station, but I have certainly met NPC's that have been challenging, so they are out there. At some point you'll get interdicted by an angry Deadly Anaconda.

 

[Jockey79]

Well there are already groups that found a different way than Möbius (sry for the german writing style^^).
I`m already in one of these groups and i`m pretty happy so far with the organisation and the playstyle.
I have even more options, considering that i can speak german and russian too (both native), that expands the possible group/clan/guild range.

But for me - i`m more of the background guy, not someone who likes to organise and rule the whole thing, i had this role in a pretty hardcore WoW guild and it was more work than my actual work where i earn money. So for me the only option is: keep doing my stuff and enjoy the game so far, wait for patches and hope that something will drive people into the multiplayer mode. Right now the game offers not enough to play in groups or in open (most of the time). More risk in open, same rewards. Less rewards in groups (except trading, but the reward is pretty low for a grind-heavy game). Most things done in a wing dont help with the credits, mission progress or community goals. Nothing wrong about it, but right now playing solo will increase your profit. Generally nothing wrong about it, but right now there is no real benefit of playing open for most people. Maybe this will change too, that will bring people back to open - more cash, higher risk - that would help.

Oh right, so like everyone else I've suggested the idea of a PvP group - you have an excuse not to.
So you want everything - but don't want to put any effort in to get it. FD must solve all your problems for you.

And also, you want to go on about how people you cannot "interact" with has an impact on your game, guess what - I don't speak Russian or German, in fact I only speak/ read / write in English. I cannot talk to someone if they don't speak English, so should they be locked out of the general game - let's lock them into language specific servers maybe? After all, why should someone I cannot interact with properly be able to have an impact on MY game
(Yes, I'm taking the mick - but this is how people sound moaning about the modes that have been around longer than they have)

Really you refuted all of these because you seem to have a differing opinion?? Well congratulations you have won the internet..

I suppose because of your brilliance in pervasive arguments you have also proven:

1. All open players are griefers and cheats. - Well, I've not found any in Solo - If I do, I will report back with my findings.
2. One bad experience in open means you must never go there again. - I caught my in my zip once, also something I'd sooner not do twice.
3. All open players hate solo players. - Feels like it in this thread and other posts around here if you just go by the forums.
4. PVE is by far the best way to experience the game. - Well, it was intended that way and things are better when used properly.
5 All PVP interaction is bad. - ​If it involves people not interested, yes. But you struggle with that concept so it seems.
6. Using hysteria and half truths is a good why to get more people into our PVE group.. - If you think I've told any lies or half truths, show me, prove it. Like I do when PvPers say Open is 100% safe, I prove them wrong.

Well done sir I bow down to you..



I am far from a "skilled" pilot but once I jumped out of a side winder NPC's were no longer a threat. Even trading 99% you get interdicted by a Sidewinder or maybe a Viper at worse and if not then you just boost away.

Otherwise you can choose where to go. - Again, not everyone is a combat pilot and not everyone wants to be. That is YOUR choice, not mine.



Pot meet kettle.. Oh I'm under no delusions, as I have evidence of my claims and can prove my claims (as I have done, constantly) - my ego has become inflated here. I believe it was PvPers who invented "tea bagging"

Only difference you have been showing the same arrogance in huge quantity of posts in this thread..

Oh it seems you have again proven you are the only player with families RL etc and PVP fan boys spend hours honing their skills to grief poor traders just going about their business.., I play other games as well, but perhaps if I quit all my other games, got a divorce, put the kids up for adoption and sold the dogs - I could also be a omgwtfuberl33troxxer PvPer who wants everyone forced into one mode. I could even ask FD to make sure I had the only ship with engines and shields to really show my skills off

Man I don't see why these guys are even trying to put across a opposing view cause you got them covered.. - Well, sometimes I do need sleep you know.

Now are you going to actually bring something, like proof of YOUR claims? or any new points? or even some suggestions that are actually fair to all modes, not just YOUR prefered mode?
Would you like to take up the mantle of PVP Group leader and start the PvP group everyone who wants PvP shies away from?

I'm sure doing something constructive would be more rewarding than just swiping at me

 

[atak2]

Really you refuted all of these because you seem to have a differing opinion?? Well congratulations you have won the internet..

I suppose because of your brilliance in pervasive arguments you have also proven:

1. All open players are griefers and cheats.
2. One bad experience in open means you must never go there again.
3. All open players hate solo players.
4. PVE is by far the best way to experience the game.
5 All PVP interaction is bad.
6. Using hysteria and half truths is a good why to get more people into our PVE group..

Well done sir I bow down to you..



I am far from a "skilled" pilot but once I jumped out of a side winder NPC's were no longer a threat. Even trading 99% you get interdicted by a Sidewinder or maybe a Viper at worse and if not then you just boost away.

Otherwise you can choose where to go.



Pot meet kettle..

Only difference you have been showing the same arrogance in huge quantity of posts in this thread..

Oh it seems you have again proven you are the only player with families RL etc and PVP fan boys spend hours honing their skills to grief poor traders just going about their business..

Man I don't see why these guys are even trying to put across a opposing view cause you got them covered..

I'm on my mobile at the moment but once I'm on my PC I will definitely be +1 repping you for this post and other good posts I have seen you make tonight.

 

[Jockey79]

I'm on my mobile at the moment but once I'm on my PC I will definitely be +1 repping you for this post and other good posts I have seen you make tonight.

Thank you, I had to +1 you for use of the mobile - I'm glad I'm not the only one

The chat about me taking the top spot for the number of thread posts - I was on my way to collect my daughter from school, using my phone (walking, not driving - phones while driving is not cool).
It's quite fun walking along the street going "You CANNOT be THAT stupid!" or "oh no you didn't" and folks looking at you like a crazy person, lol.
My wife says I need help

 

[Fire70]

Now are you going to actually bring something, like proof of YOUR claims? or any new points? or even some suggestions that are actually fair to all modes, not just YOUR prefered mode?
Would you like to take up the mantle of PVP Group leader and start the PvP group everyone who wants PvP shies away from?

I'm sure doing something constructive would be more rewarding than just swiping at me

LOL you really think you have proven anything at all??? You have an opinion and you choose to believe it nothing more. You have proven nothing. Same with me..

As far as bringing something to the table, well calling you out is the reason why I respond to you is in this whole open v group discussion you seem to offer nothing constructive other than pompous drivel..

Now if you want to actually provide some "constructive" posting for once I will too. FYI "constructive posting" isn't repeating the same opinion over and over again in a condescending manner.

AS to you wanting me to be the "champion of PVP" well I have no real interest in PVP per see but will play open. If it happens well it happens but I mainly trade (yuk, boring) or hunt in RES sites. I will also play solo depending on my mood.

My only difference to you is instead of running off to a PVE group the first time something bad had happened to you "actually have you ever been griefed? Or do you rely on others "eye witness" accounts to prove you "fact" I will just move to another area.

I also think the "bad men" play in open is a crock of given the size of the galaxy and get a bit sick of guys like you trying their hardest to get players across to their PVE group..

Really all you are interested in is increasing your PVE group, me I would prefer a improved community as a whole, that is what will make this game a successful game..

 

[W0OCQCK]

LOL you really think you have proven anything at all??? You have an opinion and you choose to believe it nothing more. You have proven nothing. Same with me..

As far as bringing something to the table, well calling you out is the reason why I respond to you is in this whole open v group discussion you seem to offer nothing constructive other than pompous drivel..

Now if you want to actually provide some "constructive" posting for once I will too. FYI "constructive posting" isn't repeating the same opinion over and over again in a condescending manner.

AS to you wanting me to be the "champion of PVP" well I have no real interest in PVP per see but will play open. If it happens well it happens but I mainly trade (yuk, boring) or hunt in RES sites. I will also play solo depending on my mood.

My only difference to you is instead of running off to a PVE group the first time something bad had happened to you "actually have you ever been griefed? Or do you rely on others "eye witness" accounts to prove you "fact" I will just move to another area.

I also think the "bad men" play in open is a crock of given the size of the galaxy and get a bit sick of guys like you trying their hardest to get players across to their PVE group..

Really all you are interested in is increasing your PVE group, me I would prefer a improved community as a whole, that is what will make this game a successful game..

Well it seems like you have it all figured out! Just so you know, I haven't experienced anyone permoting and recruiting people into Mobius. Honest here mate, they come by the hundreds, mostly all on there own. If we actually had a way to get the word out to all the players of it's existence I think the actual players joining it would be much much greater.

As for my community, (IE Mobius) it's just great, I really like it a lot, and in all honesty I really don't want to be part of any community where people like you are attending. Additionally I estimate EVE over the last 13 years have actually driven 15 or 20 million players, who love space games away from there game. I kinda think because of the different modes, many will end up here. Just wait and see.

I don't mean to be disrespectful here to you buddy. But your talking utter and complete nonsense. This already is a very successful game! It has no where to go but up. The fact is FD making this game the way it is, really goes a long way for our community's trust in FD. There actually watching out for each and every player here. Not just people like you. This is something CCP never did.

If EvE actually had a PVE server, I'd still be playing it! Hell I honest believe there would be at least a half million other PVE orentated players still be playing it! Can you imagine how much more money would be flowing into the CCP coffers. Like I've said the CCP CEO is a complete and utter moron.

You have proved something to me though, "really". You have proved to me that I want absolutely nothing to do with gamers like yourself.

 

[MacKerris]

Wow, I almost find it hard to believe that this thread is still going and with such vehemence.

I find most of the augments here nonsensical to the point of amusement and I have been tempted to post over and over. Now I have finally succumbed....


He's my take on what F.D. has done.

Many multiplayer games before have had issues with PvP vs PvE. The solution most have come up with is to just completely seperate them. Now this causes some issues of its own, the biggest being that ability to change from one to the other if you change your mind. F.D. also wanted ONE universe where everyone could effect what was happening. So, they chose to take a different tact. One universe, BUT you can play in open, in a group, or solo, all your choice. That drew me to this game as I sometimes want one, and other times another.

All the arguing about how the game should be played when you have already been offered all ways to play is just....well you figure it out.