The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

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SuperG

S
kilvenny said:
@SuperG
For me it was the way it was said. The choice of language suggested the emphasis of SC was now on FPS. I have no problem with that, but that isn't what the KS suggested - I thought it was a space flight game with an FPS element. Certainly my estimation was that SQ42 was a space flight mission based experience. ED because of the huge galaxy that has been simulated will always be a space flight game with an FPS element, also those are also not words that DB would ever utter, so the fact they were articulated like that for me is telling. I have previously reflected that I believe SC would eventually be known as the best FPS based space game and this rather re-enforces that reflection.
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I don't follow SC that intesive as some critics here, but Squadron 42 wasn't it a much higher stretch goal?
So and optional! As there are gamers totaly only interrestet in squadron42 alone. While if you not into lineairity or FPS you stick with the PU part and do not much then shopping planetside. And SP campain. Was probaly after most backed and isn't the part they would going for?
Well for me, sandbox is fine but a lineair campain no problem with. And FPS is so familiar. But I don't like driving and Racing in any way. Wich I dislike the CoD SP campain. As it isn't pure FPS.
It comes down to what you want to play and I can understand a lot of gamer's really liking the kind of balance Erin was suggesting. In fact I would suggest from a marketing/sales perspective it makes absolute sense.
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If there is also planetside driving I hope I can asign a crew member NPC as driver. Giving order where to go.

There is also for me some big thing I don't like about SC and that is the racing. But rambling about it make no sense. As I know some people do like that and I fine with that they also get what they like. As gamer you can choose what you want to do in this game. And in most sandbox game you have a deverse choice in gameplay types.

However it is posible that what you don't like is unavoidable. In a campain you need to go trough it.
In PU if this unwanted part gains exclusive rewards it hard to ignore. Or if gains huge profits even trader and non trader can't ignor it.
 
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Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
As I said many times before now I will just quote myself again:"We will have a paradox here the game that is suppose to be a space sim(BDSSE) will have a way better FPS part than an actual flying sim part".I am not sure if that was CR plan from the beginning but certainly it was not presented to the backers way back in 2012....
 

charognard

charognard
At begginning i m backer on SC, i have let 60-80$ in it, but, now, i have many doubts about my implication in this game... Yes it ll be beautifull, many good ideas, but it's too focused on a large audience, and i don't want play with kids and i m really feared about the game population type... I feel it ll be a cool space mmo, but not a good simulation at the end...
 

Adept

Adept
Jenner said:
Not excusing the delays, but I'm quite enjoying dogfighting after the last big controls patch. It finally feels fun with my x52, which is very welcome. If they keep this momentum up in making improvements to the experience it'll really be something special. Time will tell.
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My machine is a bit light for running AC, so I'm not bothering much with it at the moment (I'm ugrading soon to get the most out of Elite anyway). Can you summarise what it's like now, and what ship you are flying Jenner. Mine is a 325a, and I'm not going to burn any money on Voyager Direct.

How is the dogfighting in your opinion in comparison to fighting in Elite.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
Adept said:
My machine is a bit light for running AC, so I'm not bothering much with it at the moment (I'm ugrading soon to get the most out of Elite anyway). Can you summarise what it's like now, and what ship you are flying Jenner. Mine is a 325a, and I'm not going to burn any money on Voyager Direct.

How is the dogfighting in your opinion in comparison to fighting in Elite.
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I'm flying a Hornet.
Since they've bundled several changes to the flight model I'd be hard pressed to tell you which one(s) exactly has contributed the most to my increased enjoyment. I will say that it is much easier to land shots now with a joystick. In addition it seems like, either due to the control changes or maybe AI tweaks, keeping proper distance with your target is a lot easier. Before it seemed like there was too much distance between fighters and often there would be jousting & collisions. This has been improved in that it feels much more like what you'd expect from a more 'traditional' space combat game. Of course ships still turn very quickly, so there is a tendency to favor quick turns rather than the slower positioning that you get in an Elite Dangerous scuffle. Part of this may just be the performance of the Hornet (a dedicated figher). Just like you wouldn't want to draw too many broad generalizations about Elite from the combat performance of, say, the Eagle, I don't want to judge too much of Arena Commander based on the Hornet.

HUD has improved. Many people did not like the very large 3d missile lock and target lock animations. These have been shrunk and toned down a bit, but still maintain their 'coolness' factor.

The arena size has been bumped up. I still hit the outer wall sometimes, but it's not nearly as common as it was. They have yet to implement 64 bit (and really large maps) but this is still an improvement as well.

As far as there being no skill - I would say that there is plenty of skill involved, at least for myself. It feels like it's getting better. I have not played with the mouse or a gamepad, so I have no opinion on those (whether they are over powered, etc.)

In summary, Vanduul swarm is pretty darn visceral and 'cool' .... seemingly much faster paced than battles in Elite. Elite has more emphasis on speed control (turning) and for positioning. AC seems to favor more skill in landing your shots and keeping your target in front of you at all times. They're different experiences and both are enjoyable in their own right.

I'll do another dogfight video later today and post if up if anyone is interested in seeing.
 
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1500

1500
Jenner said:
I'm flying a Hornet.
Since they've bundled several changes to the flight model I'd be hard pressed to tell you which one(s) exactly has contributed the most to my increased enjoyment. I will say that it is much easier to land shots now with a joystick. In addition it seems like, either due to the control changes or maybe AI tweaks, keeping proper distance with your target is a lot easier. Before it seemed like there was too much distance between fighters and often there would be jousting & collisions. This has been improved in that it feels much more like what you'd expect from a more 'traditional' space combat game. Of course ships still turn very quickly, so there is a tendency to favor quick turns rather than the slower positioning that you get in an Elite Dangerous scuffle. Part of this may just be the performance of the Hornet (a dedicated figher). Just like you wouldn't want to draw too many broad generalizations about Elite from the combat performance of, say, the Eagle, I don't want to judge too much of Arena Commander based on the Hornet.

HUD has improved. Many people did not like the very large 3d missile lock and target lock animations. These have been shrunk and toned down a bit, but still maintain their 'coolness' factor.

The arena size has been bumped up. I still hit the outer wall sometimes, but it's not nearly as common as it was. They have yet to implement 64 bit (and really large maps) but this is still an improvement as well.

As far as there being no skill - I would say that there is plenty of skill involved, at least for myself. It feels like it's getting better. I have not played with the mouse or a gamepad, so I have no opinion on those (whether they are over powered, etc.)

In summary, Vanduul swarm is pretty darn visceral and 'cool' .... seemingly much faster paced than battles in Elite. Elite has more emphasis on speed control (turning) and for positioning. AC seems to favor more skill in landing your shots and keeping your target in front of you at all times. They're different experiences and both are enjoyable in their own right.

I'll do another dogfight video later today and post if up if anyone is interested in seeing.
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And this is why some people like say they like the FM in SC because they are basing it on Vanduul swarm. The problem is that Vanduul swarm is in no way indicative of what combat in SC will really be, unless CIG don't bother implementing good AI. The Vanduul are poorly coded and are made to give a fake experience to the players, its an artificial dogfighting in order to make the game feel like a real dogfighting game and more like the SW that CIG promised from the start. Vanduul do not in fact use the true capabilities of the FM, they do not strife, they constantly try and run away vs what a real player would do which is just turn and shoot.

People really need to watch or play the multiplayer to see what combat really is.

Edit: Finally installed the patch, and I hate the update, it takes control away from me and does not let me shoot what and were I want to shoot. Its a poor crutch of a type of auto aim. I want to shoot were I want to shoot, not where the game thinks I want to shoot. I really don't understand how people like having control and skill taken away from them.


Edit: Sadly CIG's P2W system is really hurting the development of the game at the moment. Mouse controls are buffed and set to arcade mode, letting the player point the guns and the ship flies it self. This gives the mouse player a major advantage over a flight stick user, and it is the reason for the crappy auto aim like system that was added as a crutch for flight sticks. Now the real problem is that many people will come in complaining about how bad and how hard it is to use the mouse. Sadly it is not for a while until you discover that they are stuck using fixed weapons, in other words they do not know or understand how the mouse control works for other ships. When you split your player base like this and not everyone can play the same thing, it really muddles any type of feedback because with out a common denominator everyone's experience will be different. This is not just a controls problem it is also a problem in ship balance, if you pay extra of course you are going to want to keep it buffed.
 
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Renideo

R
I get the feeling that it's increasingly common in the context of both games to occasionally use 'FPS' as shorthand for 'first person perspective', forgetting the shooter / genre part of the acronym. I could be wrong but I'm strongly inclined to think he meant that you should understand star citizen as you experiencing the first person perspective of an avatar at all times, and that avatar then using vehicles (mainly ships), which is an entirely accurate and reasonable description of what they always planned on doing, and are doing.

They had to (from their point of view) adopt 'an' engine and they wouldn't have taken CE because it's good for FPS games in isolation ignoring everything else they wanted to do, it would have been a weighted decision based on many factors. Whether that was the right decision or not, I doubt they actually made it lightly.

I think (and bearing in mind it is changing over time, and noone really knows what the final version will be at this point) it's best to judge the flight model on its own merits, rather than on vaguely worded interview extracts. I say this as someone who has not backed SC and likely never will (no grudge, lack the money and time and am much more interested in ED).
 
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Hermit

Hermit
RC-Plorer said:
No, I want SC to be a Sci-Fi World "sim", everything should feel/"flow" naturally and not bolted on. I don't a "Hey, some guys bordered your ship, please buy the 20$ FPS module to defend yourself with bolted-on FPS mechanics...
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You say you want it to be a "sci-fi world sim" but I find that this is the problem it has. Star Citizen was always promoted as a space sim, THE space sim that everyone had been waiting for, and drew in those who were tired of all the FPS games being produced, with the original idea being that your spaceship was your character. The FPS/third person aspect of it was meant to be very small part of it. That's when I backed it (in 2012), but now it's become an ugly chimera with far too much focus on the FPS part. All because later backers got carried away with the hype and poured too much money into it and made too many demands for what they wanted to see in the game. What players want to see in a game and what's best for it are two completely different things. Maybe that was one of the reasons why Eric Peterson left the project. He knew how it would end up.
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I've slept on what was quoted and the implications of it. I still don't like the route the game's taking, but I'll give it another few months to see what happens. If they're still trumpeting the FPS part of it and going through even more money-grabbing ship sales, as well as other pointless features, then I'm going to make the effort to demand my money back.
 

SuperG

S
Hermit said:
You say you want it to be a "sci-fi world sim" but I find that this is the problem it has. Star Citizen was always promoted as a space sim, THE space sim that everyone had been waiting for, and drew in those who were tired of all the FPS games being produced, with the original idea being that your spaceship was your character. The FPS/third person aspect of it was meant to be very small part of it. That's when I backed it (in 2012), but now it's become an ugly chimera with far too much focus on the FPS part. All because later backers got carried away with the hype and poured too much money into it and made too many demands for what they wanted to see in the game. What players want to see in a game and what's best for it are two completely different things. Maybe that was one of the reasons why Eric Peterson left the project. He knew how it would end up.
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I've slept on what was quoted and the implications of it. I still don't like the route the game's taking, but I'll give it another few months to see what happens. If they're still trumpeting the FPS part of it and going through even more money-grabbing ship sales, as well as other pointless features, then I'm going to make the effort to demand my money back.
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To me this make no sense, why.
First there was hangar module, is it a showroom game? In that state it is but its not the full game it a start.
Then there was AC is it CoD in space? Curently it is in this state, but it is not the full game.

Now we at the point that 2 modules are bit further in progress.
Squadron 42, is it masseffect FPS including in wingcomander game part.
This is not the game its a extra SP part. So could stick with the sandbox which is the PU module.

The FPS module. Needed for internal ship gameplay and planetside or space stations.
The planetside module.
This is a part of the game

Aperently what about the PU. This is the one that is the core piece of this game that make it at first a space game. The modules before are just a part of it.

That the problem judging a game so much in alfa fase. Why it is in alfa and will be not Beta because. Beta is feature complete. With out PU feature complete it will not be Beta.

It is the order of production as it are the building blocks for the Full game.

I backed this game curently in $1K but it to early to follow it on a dayly basis as progress in day isn't that much even in a month.
But when squadron 42 is closer to release.
When PU gets in Alfa test fase then it get interresting.

Also Devs are always very enthausiastic about there game. Like those moviestars producers etc about a movie.
with that in hindsight you take every thing they say with bag of salt.
You won't buy games or movie on dev or moviestar PR talk. But on reviews.

So what they say is more PR. It is by it nature very positive. And I am not into juristical analise everything they say like they are on trail about the game. As its obious if you communicate so extreem much, something or a lot may conflict or will be misintrepret. And see thing which are just false.

I got impression that it more a matter that the modules which are in decent state of progress, that they close get released in public alfa fase that they have in this period the most focus of the devs. So you get false impression or feel that it is where they aim for. Well it not.

While the PU is still in design fase. There is just still so much work to do to make this game a reality.

So I rather focus more on games near release like ED.
 

Shaderkul

Shaderkul
Renideo said:
I get the feeling that it's increasingly common in the context of both games to occasionally use 'FPS' as shorthand for 'first person perspective', forgetting the shooter / genre part of the acronym. I could be wrong but I'm strongly inclined to think he meant that you should understand star citizen as you experiencing the first person perspective of an avatar at all times, and that avatar then using vehicles (mainly ships), which is an entirely accurate and reasonable description of what they always planned on doing, and are doing.

They had to (from their point of view) adopt 'an' engine and they wouldn't have taken CE because it's good for FPS games in isolation ignoring everything else they wanted to do, it would have been a weighted decision based on many factors. Whether that was the right decision or not, I doubt they actually made it lightly.

I think (and bearing in mind it is changing over time, and noone really knows what the final version will be at this point) it's best to judge the flight model on its own merits, rather than on vaguely worded interview extracts. I say this as someone who has not backed SC and likely never will (no grudge, lack the money and time and am much more interested in ED).
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Thank you very much! The first reasonable analysis ive read in this thread. I think its rather disingenuous for some folks to extract some quote in an interview and present it out of context to serve their own agenda.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
Adept said:
Jenner, it looks like you aren't making use of the trailing "pips". It's those things you need to have over the target, not the main crosshair. (Apologies if this was obvious)
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Hmmm, quite so! lol. Well next time I'll pay more attention to the trailing pips! :p Never said I was an Ace! heh heh.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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