The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[swfanatic717]

We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

lol, I knew someone would point that out as soon as I reread it!

But yeah, CIG is probably the first to use an ongoing crowdfunding campaign as a means of sustaining their for-profit operations, making what they're doing such an anomaly.

 

[Stormprooter]

- eh, here we go again

ANYWAY

I got in a longer session with 2.0 last night. The free Gladius and Mustang are now gone

I upgraded my Aurora MR to the LN for the extra firepower because the MR was just getting beat up to heck in some of those pirate interactions. I gotta say, for what is there, I had a good amount of fun and am feeling really encouraged about the progress of the game.

I got my Christmas bonus, so I went ahead and purchased the Mustang Beta and am really liking flying that ship too.

I was getting tired of the low framerate and general glitchiness of the Universe so I dropped into Arena Commander with my new Mustang. Did some Vanduul Swarm and man can that little ship take a beating. Got all the way through the third elite wave before I finally had my engine blown out. The FM changes are clearly there but seem only to deal with the ship's inertia. Spent a good deal of time learning to work with the drift and am fairly pleased with how it turned out. The turn rate for these smaller ships doesn't really feel out of place and (I know I've said it before) feels so much like Freelancer. Though, I hitched a ride in a constellation and still feel those turn too well. Flying a ship that size should require skill at combating drift using thrusters while you wait to come about. I know its no Imperial Cutter, but I feel that ship shouldn't be able to just hop off the pad, twist around so quickly and go. It should be a ship that is not forgiving of last minute decisions.

Also, AC seems to be running much more smoothly than I remember. Though, that could just be placebo after wrestling with low frames in the Universe.

I'll have one more go at SC 2.0 while I download Horizons tonight. After that, I'll wait until 2.1 before getting back in.

Have to agree on AC and small ships - they seem to be more or less just "right" now - but that is my subjective opinion, I mean that they behave as I would expect, and the changes that have been made to the controls (I use HOTAS & Pedals), are a huge improvement over my last encounter with the game (1.1). I cannot speak for the medium/large ships.

 

[Backer42]

At $100M CR has a sizable war chest sitting somewhere in his conglomerate of organizations. Even if we assume he has as little as $50M left unused that's still a large enough pile for him to reinvest and profit off of if he wanted to. The finances are obscured, but it seems like it would be a dumb move to leave millions sitting in the bank, which begs the question of where any investment income is going.

In their refund denial reply they admit, that they already spent the money and "Alpha 2.0" is the result of that development. If they had $50m left, they could easily refund all original backers. But instead they are selling $2500 ships now to cover running costs and furniture.

 

[Neo-ST]

After the 100 million dollars in their pockets, here's the thank you of CIG and the CIG Christmas gift to their backers, directly from "Santa Lando":

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/305606/holiday-sale-details

True bargain. They never end to show appreciation for the support. Could exist any better gift for the backers patience and support? I doubt.

Let the "F5 War" begin!

Sadder than their post are only the replies of the zombies...
You'd expect people to at least rise an eyebrow when seeing those prices, but these zombies are welcoming it with impatience...lol
Go Chris, use them as much as you can.

 

[swfanatic717]

In their refund denial reply they admit, that they already spent the money and "Alpha 2.0" is the result of that development. If they had $50m left, they could easily refund all original backers. But instead they are selling $2500 ships now to cover running costs and furniture.

your payment was a deposit to be used for the “Game Cost” (as defined therein), and such deposit has since been “earned by CIG and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost...”

I took that part of the reply to mean that essentially they had already spent the money. But in that case, why are other people still able to get refunds?

I'm assuming in making the statements they are now, CIG actually has a plan to sustain their operations up to at least 2017 whether it yields fruit or not.

If they're milking whales now to cover running costs, I'd say that the company would be quite close to the verge of financial collapse by now with no means of sustaining development to 2017 on their own. My guess is that it's not that they have no money, it's just that it's mostly tied up somewhere right now, i.e. it's not that they don't have $50M left, it's that they don't have $50M cash left. The majority of their funds could be used to generate interest income to cover their running costs, while they gradually phase out small backers by replacing their money with those from whales they target.

Assuming they have 270 employees, slightly underpaid at an average of 66000 USD each per year, they'd only need a 3% return on their investments on a foundation of $50M to be able to make salary payments indefinitely.

Of course, this excludes taxes, server costs, utlities, running costs, other operating expenses and big-ticket items like A-list celebrity motion capture, so going the investment route won't be as easy as it looks here. I'd wager that even though their expenses will chip away at their war chest, it's conceivable that they'd still be able to get another year or two out of their money fairly easily, especially with them continuing to milk their whales as they do.

In any case, they'd inspire a lot more confidence in their project if their 2538 reports, updates, and web shows actually contained tangible information of value that lets people assess their performance as a business and come to their own conclusions about the financial health of the organization.

EDIT: Actually on rereading their response they pretty much say so about reinvesting their funds themselves:

the funds would be actively applied after receipt for this purpose, not idly maintained in a bank account

 

[bitstorm]

After the 100 million dollars in their pockets, here's the thank you of CIG and the CIG Christmas gift to their backers, directly from "Santa Lando":

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/305606/holiday-sale-details

True bargain. They never end to show appreciation for the support. Could exist any better gift for the backers patience and support? I doubt.

Let the "F5 War" begin!


Meanwhile:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...-once-again-showing-rsi-how-not-to-run-a-game

Right!

Interesting how they are letting such thread survive for hours in the "General Section" of CIG Forums... specially today.

Crikey.

"The Javelin will be sold in a total 200 allotment keeping in line with the relative population growth and ship distribution since it's last sale. It will cost $2500.

The Idris-P will be sold in a total 120 allotment keeping in line with the relative population growth and ship distribution since it's last sale. It will cost $1250."

To celebrate you giving us $100 million give us more money, $2500 for a ship.

That's actually really <expletive> disgusting.

 

[xyphic]

Crikey.

"The Javelin will be sold in a total 200 allotment keeping in line with the relative population growth and ship distribution since it's last sale. It will cost $2500.

The Idris-P will be sold in a total 120 allotment keeping in line with the relative population growth and ship distribution since it's last sale. It will cost $1250."

To celebrate you giving us $100 million give us more money, $2500 for a ship.

That's actually really <expletive> disgusting.

How to make $650k without even trying. Psychologists will write papers on Star Citizen's funding campaign one day.

 

[swfanatic717]

I like how at this point it's a forgone conclusion that they're going to get the money. Nobody even considers the possibility that they might not sell all those outrageously priced virtual spaceships because we all know they have that many whales on the hook.

 

[jinto777]

Meanwhile:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...-once-again-showing-rsi-how-not-to-run-a-game

Right!

Interesting how they are letting such thread survive for hours in the "General Section" of CIG Forums... specially today.

Haha, this guy nailed it!
I knew this was familiar =)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6093402/#Comment_6093402

 

[cptzipzap]

Going on 100.3M already. All the drama, all the Star Citizen supposed to crash and burn by now... And it keeps going, beating its own records recently!

The 2.0 Update and the continuous success of the funding makes some people soooooooo angry. When i saw the update released, around the media reports the almost "damage control" of several people that are the biggest defenders of the Scam and Vaporware Claims, specially the one that had "internal sources" that 2.0 would need a miracle to make it before 2016. It's hilarious.

yeah theyre like nostradamus and have those simple mind type followers. I never understood sects and how those followers tick. But I think I dont really care anymore. Maybe they make a big mass suicide one day? who really knows the way of sects?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Haha, this guy nailed it!
I knew this was familiar =)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6093402/#Comment_6093402

Good Lord... Amazing what happens when two people look down either end of the same telescope.

 

[cptzipzap]

Gotta steal all the boxes, more on Covalex random cargo missions, boxes for everyone!

Starts on this...
http://i.imgur.com/jam7ln3.jpg?1


Ends on this...
http://i.imgur.com/ZSGWxrE.jpg?1


I'm going to miss this once they get proper cargo implemented, as it won't be this sandboxy, currently it's just playing with physics.

wow. i didnt know this was possible?!

this is really next gen behaviour only cryengine could do. I knew since crysis 1 that there will be cool stuff. sadly crysis 2 and 3 jappened. but this is the revival!!!

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Going on 100.3M already. All the drama, all the Star Citizen supposed to crash and burn by now... And it keeps going, beating its own records recently!

The 2.0 Update and the continuous success of the funding makes some people soooooooo angry. When i saw the update released, around the media reports the almost "damage control" of several people that are the biggest defenders of the Scam and Vaporware Claims, specially the one that had "internal sources" that 2.0 would need a miracle to make it before 2016. It's hilarious.

Didn't they get 2.0 out 20 days before 2016? Well, I suppose that means it was out in 2015, for annual reporting purposes

 

[amigacooke]

I think I invested $25 back in 2012, but I lost interest when ED was announced.

 

[Voivod]

wow. i didnt know this was possible?!

this is really next gen behaviour only cryengine could do. I knew since crysis 1 that there will be cool stuff. sadly crysis 2 and 3 jappened. but this is the revival!!!

Someone please tell me if this is sarcasm or not

 

[Cotic]

Someone please tell me if this is sarcasm or not

I don't know how to break it to you but this is definitely not sarcasm.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I don't know how to break it to you but this is definitely not sarcasm.

I thought it was, then I thought it wasn't, and now you're saying it is......

*bangs head on desk*

Which way is up?

 

[bitstorm]

I backed in Jul 2013.

Anyone have a link to the old TOS?

Not sure if this got posted, at work can't go through all the thread but here's the ToS from 21st September 2013.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130813122132/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos

RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.

And at that time, according to the Kickstarter, the delivery date was November 2014 : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

Thankfully Kickstarter doesn't allow you to go back and make alterations, and then use that to pretend you signed under different ToS (because you probably aren't aware they've changed it and think they can get away with that). Which to be honest is pretty dodgy to say the least.

But even their ToS aside, if they promised Nov 2014 and don't deliver by then I think you're perfectly entitled to a refund, since y'know that was what they promised in exchange for taking your cash.

Taking cash under a promise, not delivering on that promise and then subsequently deciding you're not having your money back just ain't right.

If CIG goes bankrupt, and I think there are enough warning signs to think this may actually happen, then you're just not gonna get your money back.

 

[lysan]

I think I invested $25 back in 2012, but I lost interest when ED was announced.

They are also pushing the graphics now, so that is really great. On the SC play ground It still early days so need to see more how its going during next year.

 

[MaxLexandre]

wow. i didnt know this was possible?!

this is really next gen behaviour only cryengine could do. I knew since crysis 1 that there will be cool stuff. sadly crysis 2 and 3 jappened. but this is the revival!!!

Not only cryengine can do eheh
Now tell me a game where you can play with physics like this to get random objects in space inside your spaceship? Cause why not? It's random, it's space.

Didn't they get 2.0 out 20 days before 2016? Well, I suppose that means it was out in 2015, for annual reporting purposes

No, no, it's just hilarious for who claimed they had internal sources on CIG that stated they would need a miracle to release 2.0 this year. Not only that, 2.1 is also said before Christmas, on the next few days then, i don't know about that but today's livestream will likely say more.