The Star Citizen Thread v 4

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Thank you.

http://i.imgur.com/H2VFFJp.jpg


I'm done with SC.
4 years, $250 and a messy, buggy tech demo that plays like a Freelancer is not what I was originally promised or signed up for.
Let's see what they respond.

Good luck with it, hope you get your money back. If I put more than I did in to this I would try to refund this too.


Well, as Derek predicted, they denied my refund request with the exact same copy/pasted answer.
I wonder if they can do this, since I pledged in the era of the first TOS, when refunds were still available?

I will now move on with a bank chargeback and FTC complaint.

It's sad to see them treating early backers like this.

This was my original letter to them, I think the reasons for refund are reasonable and true.
 
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some useless rambling from me

I don't have as negative an attitute as some of the more prominent critics of SC in this thread. I try to keep both sides of the coin in mind - be appreciative and critical at the same time

Having said that as far as development progress goes -
I'd be barely satisfied with current development progress:
If I knew that all current bugs are due to lack of tweaking and/or minor guards, instead of design flaws.
If I knew their systems scale properly
If I knew SC42 is working out somewhat good right now.

It's not like CIG had it easy:
They've had to setup a new company; new staff; cope with a subpar engine for the job; plan according to variable funding;

But I can't be a fan if I see this supposedly monstrous project is being tackled module by module by teams in opposite side of the globe. And then they're supposed to magically glue it together and expect it to work as intended. It's software development - not home ed.
I understand well they've tried to cut the dependencies between teams as much as possible, but probably even they were surprised to find out how hard that is to do if you have a scope so broad.

I can't also agree with the overpromising, The Refactoring and semi-transparent release plan. What feature sets are in their internal milestones? We're given crumbs and highlights but nothing that could convey the bigger picture.
 
Delayed games are not always in serious trouble, but games in serious trouble are always delayed.
No Mans Sky have announced (before the date was due) that they are delaying the game, they've explained why (they want to polish it more). People have gone internet crazy about it but frankly I'm not concerned. It's happened once and they've communicated the delay, how long the delay will be for and why there's a delay. Two months is not a big deal.
Star Citizen has sailed past every date with no word from CIG, other than the chairman complaining that backers had the gall to expect him to keep his word. No communication about the delay, it's duration or why it was delayed. Just sulking by the man himself. The original release date was in 2014 that's two years ago, that's a big deal. The third version of the TOS has the latest delivery date for star citizen as midnight tonight a little over eight hours from where I am. Again no word from CIG that's a big deal. They just dropped out of E3 whilst saying they were far too busy, that's a big deal.
NMS is fine and thinking of quality, CIG is in full on panic mode (and if they're not they really should be).

I feel like maybe you're reading a lot into this, perhaps more than one should. "People have gone internet crazy about it but frankly I'm not concerned." could be applied to the discussion about SC, too. I think it's reasonable to expect that big games have dates that slip, it's nothing new in the industry. I also think it's fair to say that CIG are certainly providing more updates than a typical game studio does, to be sure.

I'm curious as to which specific missed dates you are talking about? If I recall correctly, the 2014 was an estimated delivery at the start of the campaign. It's reasonable that the estimated delivery date from the start of the campaign would slip. I know there was a graphic going around about dates in 2015, that would have put SQ42 out at the end of 2015 and commercial release in 2016, I think? I think that for such a big game, a delay of 6-12 months can be reasonable in some cases. I know Uncharted 4 and Mass Effect Andromeda both had release date slips of 6 months, and those are largely single-player games that are building off previous instalments. Blizzard is known for delays on its games. I think delays are rather to be expected on these type of games, don't you?

As far as pulling out of E3, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, it's mostly a marketing event right? Wouldn't the detractors just say that they're wasting time at E3 instead of making the game? I haven't really seen any evidence that CIG is in "full on panic mode" or cause for them to be.
 
Thx for the answer.....My opinion about FM didn't change at all from the very first day that CIG released DFM aKa AC until today and I honestly believe that FM are essentially the same now.Sure I admit there was some minor tweaks here and there for this half of decade and overall it does feel a bit more polished but that doesn't change the fact that still feels just wrong as they did from day 1.For me it was always that feeling like I been playing an actual FPS and that "someone"just glued an Cockpit picture all over my screen...It's just Twitchy,jerky fast-paced mess where ships lacks so much in their mass that's beyond of unreal....It's like that someone been forcing me to play an arcade game on the same way as I usually do when I play Simulation...and that's just feels so wrong.
I don't believe anything anymore that comes from the CIG mouth as they gamble all my thrust long time ago but I still want them to make this game even if it's going to be just mediocre or average and not the game what was originally pitched....At this moment I rather play SC from the 3rd person view(ARCADE STYLE-as it is) because at least like that I can enjoy the very nice GFX and the current ART which I still finding very amusing....

On mobile at work so I can't really type out a big response with counterpoints but I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your viewpoint when it comes to the flight mechanics.
 
Well, as Derek predicted, they denied my refund request with the exact same copy/pasted answer.
I wonder if they can do this, since I pledged in the era of the first TOS, when refunds were still available?

I will now move on with a bank chargeback and FTC complaint.

It's sad to see them treating early backers like this.

This was my original letter to them, I think the reasons for refund are reasonable and true.

You are being unreasonable Neo-ST, CIG have another 7 hours and 18 minutes to ship the feature complete game and have you receive it in good working order before the 3rd TOS expires.

I look forward to you writing of your regret at your hasty and ill-chosen words when you post a glowing review here shortly after midnight.
 
Well, as Derek predicted, they denied my refund request with the exact same copy/pasted answer.
I wonder if they can do this, since I pledged in the era of the first TOS, when refunds were still available?

I will now move on with a bank chargeback and FTC complaint.

It's sad to see them treating early backers like this.

This was my original letter to them, I think the reasons for refund are reasonable and true.

Keep us inform Neo,I assume that it's very important for the others that want's or think about to do the very same step as you did it....I personally will never ask for my money back but from other side I am just 60€ in it and I finding all of this "Circus"that surrounds actual game worth every penny...some "clowns" in it are just spectacular...srry... that's just me being me.....[hotas]
 
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I know that reading comprehension is not a very common skill in this thread, but... did you missed the last few hundred pages of people calling it a scam, how SC will fail, almost as if they wish that would happen?

Now a TOS deadline is a thing here. Info for you, that is another part of Smarts Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt campaign. No even outside of the Smartie circle even cares about that.

Wipe your mouth, you're foaming looks Dangerous!

Regarding what or what will not happen we just need to wait and see then we will know.
 
You are being unreasonable Neo-ST, CIG have another 7 hours and 18 minutes to ship the feature complete game and have you receive it in good working order before the 3rd TOS expires.

I look forward to you writing of your regret at your hasty and ill-chosen words when you post a glowing review here shortly after midnight.

Sorry, I'm not following you?
Bear in mind I haven't followed SC for months now, I'm probably missing some important info.
 
Sorry to hear commander.

Anyway - will they show us something special on E3, you know this CoD is around the corner and its pretty much FPS in space...

CR said he and the studio were not doing E3 this year.

I don't think that is a huge deal, E3 is big publishers' paradise, anyway.

HOWEVER, CIG needs to show something on or near E3 as many people will be looking for it and expecting there be something to show for Squadron 42.
 
Sorry, I'm not following you?
Bear in mind I haven't followed SC for months now, I'm probably missing some important info.

Sorry Neo my fault it was brit style sarcastic humour (which I know doesn't do well in written form).

Midnight tonight is 18 months past the the release date, and 18 months is the max amount they gave themselves to go over the planned delivery date before refunding everyone according to the TOS. I pretended to believe they would deliver before then for (failed) comic effect.

Seriously good luck with your refund.
 
I understand it was sarcasm, but what's the story with the deadline ?

There is a terms of service deadline tonight at midnight.

I believe one of Derek's blogs may cover it.

Personally I'm expecting the deadline to sail peacefully by with no action or acknowledgement from/by CIG - we'll see.
 
Sorry Neo my fault it was brit style sarcastic humour (which I know doesn't do well in written form).

Midnight tonight is 18 months past the the release date, and 18 months is the max amount they gave themselves to go over the planned delivery date before refunding everyone according to the TOS. I pretended to believe they would deliver before then for (failed) comic effect.

Seriously good luck with your refund.

There is a terms of service deadline tonight at midnight.

I believe one of Derek's blogs may cover it.

Personally I'm expecting the deadline to sail peacefully by with no action or acknowledgement from/by CIG - we'll see.

Oh God, this is gonna be fun.
Thanks for informing me.
Now I'll slowly retreat to rolling on the floor and laughing...hard.

LcSPp1L.jpg
 
some useless rambling from me

I don't have as negative an attitute as some of the more prominent critics of SC in this thread. I try to keep both sides of the coin in mind - be appreciative and critical at the same time

Having said that as far as development progress goes -
I'd be barely satisfied with current development progress:
If I knew that all current bugs are due to lack of tweaking and/or minor guards, instead of design flaws.
If I knew their systems scale properly
If I knew SC42 is working out somewhat good right now.

It's not like CIG had it easy:
They've had to setup a new company; new staff; cope with a subpar engine for the job; plan according to variable funding;

But I can't be a fan if I see this supposedly monstrous project is being tackled module by module by teams in opposite side of the globe. And then they're supposed to magically glue it together and expect it to work as intended. It's software development - not home ed.
I understand well they've tried to cut the dependencies between teams as much as possible, but probably even they were surprised to find out how hard that is to do if you have a scope so broad.


I can't also agree with the overpromising, The Refactoring and semi-transparent release plan. What feature sets are in their internal milestones? We're given crumbs and highlights but nothing that could convey the bigger picture.

LOL, sorry but that is not an excuse at all! I build factories faster than CIG can build a game, from the ground up.

We hire all the crew, we build the infrastructure, showers, toilets, roads barracks all from the ground up. We don't have anything to begin with, sometimes not even the complete funding for the project as the bean counters are still counting beans.

When the project is done, and all the handover is completed, we let the rest go, or transfer them to a new project. However its the same challenges CIG face. Get the people you nee,d and get the project started. They couldn't even do that in a normal professional way.

A few words comes to mind, when I think about it.[wacko]
 
LOL, sorry but that is not an excuse at all! I build factories faster than CIG can build a game, from the ground up.

We hire all the crew, we build the infrastructure, showers, toilets, roads barracks all from the ground up. We don't have anything to begin with, sometimes not even the complete funding for the project as the bean counters are still counting beans.

Please don't compare the scope of such a software project to building a factory, lavatory or a road. The analogy doesn't work.
If you don't believe me - try it our for yourself.

Yes they seem to be slower for one reason or another - I think so too. But hurdles they faced need to be acknowledged if we're going to criticize them
 
Please don't compare the scope of such a software project to building a factory, lavatory or a road. The analogy doesn't work.
If you don't believe me - try it our for yourself.

Yes they seem to be slower for one reason or another - I think so too. But hurdles they faced need to be acknowledged if we're going to criticize them

Yes I know the construction business are much much simpler than making a computer game.

Sorry for my utterly lack of knowledge in these matters. I'd go to my corner now.
 
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