The Star Citizen Thread V10

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With the SC roadmap posted Friday we have:
  • With more than 33% of Q2 gone, version 3.6.0 is 20% completed
  • From the previous week, zero progress on the seven items listed in the "Core Tech" section
31MMIp1.jpg

Pretty much par for the course. Ships and pretty things get delivered, core tech and gameplay features get delayed.

Its almost as though they have a really talented team of artists and modellers but lacking in actual code monkeys.

Besides, the core tech is worthless, you can't sell the core tech for hundreds of dollars before the game is even ready, and backers have given CIG carte blanche to take as long as they want. So why rush? Get more ships pumped out, keep those sales going!

Im waiting for microtech. I believe its going to be a minature world with minature things on it, because Chris went to see the Lego movie and wanted that in his game.
 
Meh. Lots of us backed because we played some incarnation of Wing Commander.
We have known CR is a flake for a loooong time.
But there's never been anything like Wing Commander since the original.
Not even the sequels.

I always wondered what kind of game we'd get if CR could just run with it.

I'm probably in the minority, but I care more about Squadron 42 than SC.

Your looking at it. This is Chris Roberts without oversight. He is running with it that's the problem.
 
If someone is upset about some aspect of the game, and writes an emotional, possibly irrational, post to one of the forums, they can "expert to be mocked mercilessly"?

Only if the Star Citizen community is toxic, surely? The best way to deal with someone who has become upset is not to get emotional in return: it is to acknowledge the emotion ("I can see you're upset"), and then bring the conversation to a rational, factual, adult level.
The suggestion is more in reference to the in game chat and doesn't refer to detractors of SC but the few who utter the usual falacies permeated by the faithful as words of gospel. They don't last long in the chat and usually disconnect very quickly to find a server where the other faithful all sit and tell eachother fibs...but don't actually play whilst they're theorising.

Unlike the popular hangouts and forums where they can drivel on, get upvotes and feel all righteous...there's no upvoting in the game chat... the in game chat isn't a place for worship...it's a place where a lot of folks are frustrated that basic mechanics don't work and are usually seeking workarounds or help from others just to make do and play what's there.

The base mechanics in SC are very well thought out for the most part...if you're not running around like a 12 year old Fortnite player and miss it all. However, constant ship sales and tech demos dragging programmers and game designers away from completing those mechanics leave them unfinished, uncompleted to present functioning gameplay loops.

The trade system: Immersive and in keeping with design...unfinished and broken, ruined by poor network code resulting in many trade terminals broken or not working...change server and they magically work until network code starts to break down once again. A great way to lose in game credits due to malfunctions in ship storage, non functioning terminals and flight model bugs which include a random total loss of ship control which requires a restart of the game client.

Ship design: Excellent, immersive..too much time spent on this for obvious financial reasons, too little time spent on base mechanics surrounding them or gameplay loops that use the ships to their design potential.

Mining: Excellent mechanics, technically challenging..ruined by bugs and incomplete game loops (no refineries), ship functions incomplete.

FPS pew-pew: Garbage, clunky, ruined by poor network code and badly designed 3d character animations designed to look good rather than function correctly.

Flight pew-pew: Ruined by poor network code resulting in hitboxes on ships not registering hits, janky and unresponsive Ai behaviour.

Most of all...a complete lack of persistence of any kind...you daren't go to sleep in a ship containing cargo since the chances are you'll wake up at your previous port with no ship or cargo. In game credits and aquisitions are wiped every major patch making the whole experience a pointless and frustrating effort. The design decisions behind this are purely marketing and financial...if players can ever manage to earn enough to actually buy a ship in game, the cash cow stops.
 
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Not sure if sarcastic, but if anyone else is wondering...

<woosh>
I was paraphrasing the Forbes article. No obviously I didn't think the polite exchange between OA and SM was a couple of "internet trolls"; I just forgot it's the internet so obviously you have to spell it out.

“Star Citizen is a playable game,” Roberts insists. “It has more functionality and content than a lot of finished games.” He adds that 40,000 people played the game together online over a recent week and that criticism of Cloud Imperium’s development work is fueled by online trolls.

 
The suggestion is more in reference to the in game chat and doesn't refer to detractors of SC but the few who utter the usual falacies permeated by the faithful as words of gospel. They don't last long in the chat and usually disconnect very quickly to find a server where the other faithful all sit and tell achother fibs...but don't actually play whilst they're theorising.

Unlike the popular hangouts and forums where they can drivel on, get upvotes and feel all righteous...there's no upvoting in the game chat... the in game chat isn't a place for worship...it's a place where a lot of folks are frustrated that basic mechanics don't work and are usually seeking workarounds or help from others just to make do and play what's there.

The base mechanics in SC are very well thought out for the most part...if you're not running around like a 12 year old Fortnite player and miss it all. However, constant ship sales and tech demos dragging programmers and game designers away from completing those mechanics leave them unfinished, uncompleted to present functioning gameplay loops.

The trade system: Immersive and in keeping with design...unfinished and broken, ruined by poor network code resulting in many trade terminals broken or not working...change server and they magically work until network code starts to break down once again. A great way to lose in game credits due to malfunctions in ship storage, non functioning terminals and flight model bugs which include a random total loss of ship control which requires a restart of the game client.

Ship design: Excellent, immersive..too much time spent on this for obvious financial reasons, too little time spent on base mechanics surrounding them or gameplay loops that use the ships to their design potential.

Mining: Excellent mechanics, technically challenging..ruined by bugs and incomplete game loops (no refineries), ship functions incomplete.

FPS pew-pew: Garbage, clunky, ruined by poor network code and badly designed 3d character animations designed to look good rather than function correctly.

Flight pew-pew: Ruined by poor network code resulting in hitboxes on ships not registering hits, janky and unresponsive Ai behaviour.

Most of all...a complete lack of persistence of any kind...you daren't go to sleep in a ship containing cargo since the chances are you'll wake up at your previous port with no ship or cargo. In game credits and aquisitions are wiped every major patch making the whole experience a pointless and frustrating effort.

Its almost like a tech demo that's broken at its core and can only really sell new art assets. If the very base mechanics are this broken now, I don't see them getting fixed ever. Scaling cry engine to the extremes is obviously something it wasnt ment to do. If they cant even have decent fps combat on a engine that was made to do just that, because theyve stretched and frankensteined it so much you cant even walk through a damn door without the game crashing out or bugging it doesn't bode well.

Unless CIG starts from scratch with a engine that can handle the scope and scale of what CR wants to do I dont see this coming together at all.

The fact people keep buying in is utterly amazing to me.
 
Honestly curious: What makes you think that they could make it with $600M if they have not been able to with $300M (i.e. 5 times the $65M required for the whole stretch goals list) and over 7-8 years?

As I had posted a long time back, it's not that they CAN'T do it with $300m, $600m or even $1,000,000m. Every single time they get piles and piles of money, instead of plowing it into code, making sure things don't clip, making sure graphics are stunning to the point where you'd require a liquid nitrogen-cooled PC to run it, they use the money to make more nuts and bolts on the doors, etc. CR wants to make a virtual reality space game where we can all live and enjoy digital food and use the digital bathroom and flush down digital... well, you get the idea. He doesn't seem to realize that IT'S DONE already. There's enough there to release. Want more? DLC. People have shown that they'll pay for stuff. Fine. Release the game and actually make money with it.

I mean really, look at the images posted by Mole HD on

THIS is what I'd love to see in ED but it's not HERE; it's THERE, in an unreleased game. They'd have a sale, if they'd only put it up for sale. I want it, but I'm not going to buy (or invest) in something that looks like it'll never get released. Always seems to come close, not quite hitting the threshold but then receding back into Alpha again.

The backers have turned into a cult because they value their investment; they want this too. They want this virtual reality and I can understand and appreciate their vicious defense of CIG because they have a piece of it and want more. Stop feeding it. One of two things will happen:

1. It'll get born and everyone will be happy.
2. It'll die because it was never coming out anyway.

Either outcome is acceptable to me; I haven't invested any money into SC. I'd also love to see it succeed. Throw it into the water. It'll either learn to swim or it'll sink. I believe it has enough viability to swim yesterday. CR needs to trust his baby will swim AND grow.

And I need to stop repeating myself.
 
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Its almost like a tech demo that's broken at its core and can only really sell new art assets. If the very base mechanics are this broken now, I don't see them getting fixed ever. Scaling cry engine to the extremes is obviously something it wasnt ment to do. If they cant even have decent fps combat on a engine that was made to do just that, because theyve stretched and frankensteined it so much you cant even walk through a damn door without the game crashing out or bugging it doesn't bode well.

Unless CIG starts from scratch with a engine that can handle the scope and scale of what CR wants to do I dont see this coming together at all.

The fact people keep buying in is utterly amazing to me.
The times when all this works can be a totally immersive experience, when the trade terminals work, getting into your ship and seeing the cargo, plotting a route...pirate interdictions (thanfully rarer than ED's setup) landing on a remote base, exploring planetary stuff...but all of it for the most part is broken and incomplete in order to continue the revenue stream.

SC needs a massive change of leadership and technical managers who aren't over ridden by accountants and Chris Roberts...in a nutshell, that's not happening any time soon as long as CR has the helm.
 
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if players can ever manage to earn enough to actually buy a ship in game, the cash cow stops.

This is the thing. I've had the feverent backers pointing to how it is now possible to buy ships in game.... and sure, if you are willing to sacrifice your life for a few weeks, only for it to get wiped anyway at the next reset.

We know from CIG's financials now that subscriptions are not part of the funding tracker, and if the funding trackers is to be believed, its largely ship sales. Ships sales bringing them in a thousand or two dollars per freaking hour (let that sink in for a moment, backers are buying new ships and stuff all the time, every hour, without fail, for a game that isn't even released yet and technically speaking, if the game ever releases, you never actually need to give CIG an additional penny - that leads to either some skepticism, worry for the state of humanity, or wondering if you are somehow missing something. The skepticism path leads me to think there are some hardcore backers who are constantly giving CIG money. But there again, i can almost believe that among the million or so backers, there are a few thousand who regularly spend their pennies on new ships.

Either way, its mindboggling, and the day CIG makes earning ships easy, and persistent, is the day their cash cow slows down. Not stop of course, there are always those who will pay to "win", and plenty of them. CR didn't discover this, its been known in the mobile app market for a long time.

I am waiting to see if CIG ever does decide to "release" the game, whether they will stop ship sales like they said they would. However, at this point, i think that even if they get the game into a releasable state, they might be better off not going gold and instead keeping it perpetual "beta", which would allow them to keep selling ships without going back on their promise to stop selling on release.
 
This is the thing. I've had the feverent backers pointing to how it is now possible to buy ships in game.... and sure, if you are willing to sacrifice your life for a few weeks, only for it to get wiped anyway at the next reset.

We know from CIG's financials now that subscriptions are not part of the funding tracker, and if the funding trackers is to be believed, its largely ship sales. Ships sales bringing them in a thousand or two dollars per freaking hour (let that sink in for a moment, backers are buying new ships and stuff all the time, every hour, without fail, for a game that isn't even released yet and technically speaking, if the game ever releases, you never actually need to give CIG an additional penny - that leads to either some skepticism, worry for the state of humanity, or wondering if you are somehow missing something. The skepticism path leads me to think there are some hardcore backers who are constantly giving CIG money. But there again, i can almost believe that among the million or so backers, there are a few thousand who regularly spend their pennies on new ships.

Either way, its mindboggling, and the day CIG makes earning ships easy, and persistent, is the day their cash cow slows down. Not stop of course, there are always those who will pay to "win", and plenty of them. CR didn't discover this, its been known in the mobile app market for a long time.

I am waiting to see if CIG ever does decide to "release" the game, whether they will stop ship sales like they said they would. However, at this point, i think that even if they get the game into a releasable state, they might be better off not going gold and instead keeping it perpetual "beta", which would allow them to keep selling ships without going back on their promise to stop selling on release.
Most backers don't buy 'new' ships per se...they have a base ship and add a few $ to CCU or melt the current ship into store credit or upgrade to something more exotic. I'm persistently melting ships so adding a few bucks to SC's coffers at a time instead of a lump of cash...it all soon mounts up, the $30-$50 here and there, the odd subscription fee if the ship of the month is worth having, so you end up like me after a while with a fair bit spent in to the project.

There's also the grey market via Ebay or reddit (some others) where you can buy the ships Ci¬G remove from the listings naively in order to create artificial rarity...you can just pop onto Ebay (money back guarantees as opposed to reddit), buy the artificially limited edition ship (or an LTI upgrade from a current ship to the one you'd like)... with the magical LTI... for substantially less than you could from the RSi pledge store...keep it a while and then CCU it for something else when you get bored with it or flog it for cash on Ebay.

I have a couple of grey market LTI upgrade CCU's and one grey market limited edition ship with LTI, so either way works for me ;)
 
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That's true enough my dear Mole - but their network architecture and implementation works for nobody. Spend even five minutes logging it and fill your lulzbucket!

Amusingly - there are a lot of calls to an ad server that never get answered.
5 minutes logging in? That's insanely optimistic even on an SSD :D
 

Fire up wireshark and have a look :D

5 minutes logging in? That's insanely optimistic even on an SSD :D

Actually I've found load times to have gotten much better recently - but there is still a whole heap of asset thrashing from the .pak that I don't think they will ever be able to smooth over unless the local client has enough RAM to actually cache the whole silly thing and host the actual client.
 
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Most backers don't buy 'new' ships per se...they have a base ship and add a few $ to CCU or melt the current ship into store credit or upgrade to something more exotic. I'm persistently melting ships so adding a few bucks to SC's coffers at a time instead of a lump of cash...it all soon mounts up, the $30-$50 here and there, the odd subscription fee if the ship of the month is worth having, so you end up like me after a while with a fair bit spent in to the project.

There's also the grey market via Ebay or reddit (some others) where you can buy the ships Ci¬G remove from the listings naively in order to create artificial rarity...you can just pop onto Ebay (money back guarantees as opposed to reddit), buy the artificially limited edition ship (or an LTI upgrade from a current ship to the one you'd like)... with the magical LTI... for substantially less than you could from the RSi pledge store...keep it a while and then CCU it for something else when you get bored with it or flog it for cash on Ebay.

I have a couple of grey market LTI upgrade CCU's and one grey market limited edition ship with LTI, so either way works for me ;)

Can you imagine the outcry if CIG ever clamped down on the grey market, perhaps even going so far as to remove all grey market purchases.

The wailing would be something.

However, they wouldn't do that... yet. Not until they are secure in funding at least.
 
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