The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

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Making a puzzle game in CE is very easy, in fact people have made all sorts of things like sidescrollers etc.
Making a simple space shooter game like AC (and before you call me a hater, of course AC has some very nifty damage effects and the whole thruster articulation, but right now it's really just a space shooter where all you do is blow up wave after wave of AI ships, or play team deathmatch) is relatively easy, because you're still just working within the confines of the engine - i.e. your "game space" is limited to the maximum permitted by the engine.

Adding double precision touches everything. I've already told you, it's not just the game engine itself, but you also have to touch the editor and the toolchain. The editor alone is very fiddly to modify. Alternatively you could keep the editor single precision but then you'd need to have CE support both single and double precision.

And ah yes, I recognize this mindset. "If we just throw enough money and resources at this situation we've got ourselves into, we're sure to overcome it." - I've watched a 200+ million-euro project go down the toilet. No amount of money and people helped them overcome the very basic erroneous decisions made at the start, because they were dead set on those. And they had more money and people at their disposal than SC and ED have combined.



It's great that you still believe in their ability to deliver on their promises. But you see, while I totally support you there, I don't share that optimism. I'm gonna go out and say it:

I would totally support SC dropping CryEngine today, and I firmly believe that while it'd be a setback initially, it'd be worth it down the line.

Also, it is coming together? Like, super late, with buggy multiplayer that doesn't even HAVE any of the complex stuff like, say, docking at a space station? I mean heck, Elite may have problems with their netcode too, but they're like a kitchen team working on a slightly botched dessert in a big menu with all kinds of starters and main dishes already done and smelling awesome, while Star Citizen just finished a mug of milk in the microwave.



I'm gonna say this one last time and then never again because you apparently ignore what I wrote before:

Why would they test the single-precision collision detection? It's already built into CryEngine and works. They gain no useful information about double precision collision detection. They have to rework everything from netcode, collision, physics, etc. including all the ship performance values.

Also, there's enough literature on that subject. It's not like SC is the first game ever to plan to do this, even though they'll no doubt be happy to claim they're the first space game ever to pull it off.



What proper space physics? That things have inertia and retain their momentum unless force is exerted? Wow that's super detailed, I'm amazed. Apart from the thruster articulation (which is pointless but looks cool) and the damage effects (which for me are the absolute highlight of AC and where they wipe the floor with ED right now), there is nothing detailed or amazing.



That's an assertion you can't prove, just like I could not prove mine. I can only point to past projects that took on more they could chew, as well as point out the complexity of the task, having access to the engine code.



Self-validating statement is self-validating. The fact of the matter is, CryEngine is one choice among many, with it's own benefits and drawbacks. Saying it's the "best" is an apples vs. oranges thing.



Well I'm not so sure CR knows what he wants. He wants everything plus the kitchen sink, but there seems to be no coherent plan to go about it. And no, believing doesn't make it so.

But even if CR had a clear, precise and detailed idea of what he wants this game to be, that doesn't mean anything with regards to engine choice, the ability of his team, or how this project turns out to be. The rain doesn't go away just because you really want it to.



I'm looking at the source tree right now and quite honestly there's not a lot of stuff I'd reuse. CryEngine is a value proposition only if you take it for what it is, and use it to best effect. As soon as you meddle with the inner workings, there's a real danger that you generate more work than if you built your own.

If you disagree with that last statement, fine, I probably can't convince you. I already poked you about certain interna of CryEngine in an earlier post, which you then conveniently ignored before repeating your same statements again. So I'm not going through this again.

Also, CryTek has their own set of problems. I doubt they can contribute a huge amount of people for long stretches of time right now.

Well said my friend I almost agree 100% with all above except the one thing and that is the dmg model.Is it good? yes it is, is it something new and spectacular no it's not.Is it better than ED?I can not claim that as I am not ED backer yet but even if is it better that is not a big impact as FM on a game play.As you can see I consider myself as a Realist and even if I am not ED backer i am not blind and don't have any problem to accept the fact that ED is by mile better in almost all of the aspects that should make a BDSSE...
 
Maybe they can do it, but the fact is the flight system is problematic right now... 8 months late.

I expected bugs, that's normal for an alpha... but imo the flight model should have been priority number 1. Playing AC is completely different from the combat in every commercial they make. It really feels like a FPS. If you like that fine, but I don't.

Should I expect the flight model to change a lot in the coming patches?

This is the deal just go and look some of the videos from december when the CR&CO was playing DFM in their office you will realize that FM is basically the same as it is now 8 month latter,yes they fix some bugs here and there yes they add PBR and some better Gfx but the core of the FM is un-changed.What should you expect in the coming patches?Hmm to be honest I will tell you this: do not expect any miracles in FM at least not in this year.Instead of that expect maybe some bigger maps than now,less bugs,improvement in game stability,better controls system and SLI&Crossfire support(maybe),sounds improvement and in game chat:).
 

psyron

Banned
...
And ah yes, I recognize this mindset. "If we just throw enough money and resources at this situation we've got ourselves into, we're sure to overcome it." - I've watched a 200+ million-euro project go down the toilet. No amount of money and people helped them overcome the very basic erroneous decisions made at the start, because they were dead set on those. And they had more money and people at their disposal than SC and ED have combined.
...

I agree - and that's what i fear most.
It's great that people are asking for space games and are willing to put a lot of money in it. But the possible disappointment of players once SC will flop could hurt the whole space sim genre including ED.
 
But the possible disappointment of players once SC will flop could hurt the whole space sim genre including ED.

SC cannot possibly flop. It's the best game ever. It has millions of fans who will support the game by huge cash injections. It has real physics. It's the most accurate and realistic fish tank simulator in the entire universe. There are dedicated teams who do nothing but make youtube videos all day long. They have lots of $$$$ to make it right.

How can it possibly fail, apart from being no fun? :D
 
SC cannot possibly flop. It's the best game ever. It has millions of fans who will support the game by huge cash injections. It has real physics. It's the most accurate and realistic fish tank simulator in the entire universe. There are dedicated teams who do nothing but make youtube videos all day long. They have lots of $$$$ to make it right.

How can it possibly fail, apart from being no fun? :D

Don't forget the upcoming space-plant! I'm excited for that!
 
If double precision is needed it should be done first. Otherwise you end up debugging in single precision and having to do it again when you introduce double.

Now what they could be doing is committing AC to a single precision version of the engine and then for SC proper do the double precision,that would make sense.

However the commitment to do double precision on an unfamiliar engine and tool set would to me be a huge project risk and a task that should have been started as soon as the KS finished. I am half expecting a decision to be taken to leave it single precision and live within its limitations.

I watched the other day a sneak peak at the FPS side and it almost suggests to me that the FPS element will gradually supercede the flight aspect so eventually SC is seen as the greatest FPS space game of all time with a limited flight aspect.
 
Today I found out which ships cockpit this finally is.

June-Report-Foundry-42.jpg

Apparently it is from the Gladius light fighter.

http://imgur.com/a/xwpG2#0

The old feeling is so awesome. Rusty dirty and old.
 
Now after this picture from above I start to doubt that Mr. Novak could work for CIG or he Sink very significant amount of $$$ into the SC, I mean just look at that picture, whatever they post in there looks Awesome for him.Or maybe he is just trolling in here,I mean seriously getting impressed from a cocpit picture that looks like a WWII plane with nav&electronics inside that look identical as the one from the mercedes benz-cars from the '90....indeed impressive..
 
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I love the little turbo pressure gauge.

How exactly is a turbo going to work on a gimbaled thruster? What exhaust is being returned to drive the turbine? Where is the turbine?

It's meant to be 100% physically realistic after all.
 
Now after this picture from above I start to doubt that Mr. Novak could work for CIG or he Sink very significant amount of $$$ into the SC, I mean just look at that picture, whatever they post in there looks Awesome for him.Or maybe he is just trolling in here,I mean getting impressed from a cocpit picture that looks like a WWII plane with nav&electronics inside that look identical as the one from the mercedes benz-cars from the '90....indeed impressive..

So I must work for CIG to enjoy a nice cockpit picture? It looks awesome to me and I wanted to share it for others. What is wrong with that? Can't we share SC pictures in a SC thread? And express that we like it? So much conspiracy and prejudice...
 
The old feeling is so awesome. Rusty dirty and old.

Personally I don't like it.
I mean, it's ok but it doesn't belong to a world so far away in the future.
Plus, the so obvious and shameless copying of real world airplanes is becoming annoying.

P.S.
You could have put a spoiler tag...
 
So I must work for CIG to enjoy a nice cockpit picture? It looks awesome to me and I wanted to share it for others. What is wrong with that? Can't we share SC pictures in a SC thread? And express that we like it? So much conspiracy and prejudice...

Pardon me mr.Nowak,I am sure that you don't work for CIG...but I am almost certain that you sink significant amount of $$$ into the SC.But never mind just go ahead and share any kind of nonsense from SC here with us pls.
 
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Personally I don't like it.
I mean, it's ok but it doesn't belong to a world so far away in the future.
Plus, the so obvious and shameless copying of real world airplanes is becoming annoying.

P.S.
You could have put a spoiler tag...

Oh the reason why the Gladius feels old is that it is the oldest military fighter in the UEE. The other cockpits like the 300i or Aurora are modern. But for example the Hornet is in the lore a ship at the end of it's life cycle and in process of being phased out that's why even that feels a little old.
 
That gladius would look pretty good if they had stuck with the basic shape and not put winglets all over it, it seems to be flaw (to me at least) in a lot of their designs.

I kinda like the battered retro cockpit though....

How is it Retro? Retro is applied to styles from the recent past. This is 900 years in the future that is over 900 year old styling retro?

It is a horrible looking cockpit. Personally I play space games so that I can have the feeling of being in the future flying a space ship, not sitting in a 1970 airplane rust bucket.
 
I like the cockpit design, it does look old and dated, and like something they would make today, not in the future. However it doesn't show what it is like in flight and I am sure that would modernize it some. Still over all as a 300i and a Constellation backer in SC I am not thrilled with the progress so far. It is way late, they promised the backers first shot at everything, then at some show let non backers play the in development DFM, while the backers promised first shot at everything had to wait. It wouldn't have been bad if the wait was a few days or a week, but it was over a few months.

So promises made and broken. when a thread was made on it, the defenders of all things SC rushed out to defend it. Which is fine, but no amount of defending it can change the fact they said one thing and did another, and not even an apology to admit they shouldn't have done that. Sure it may mean more sales, and that is another issue, the sales of ships. In the beginning it was needed to raise money for the game, now it is to just make money. So they make a variety of ship modifications and just for more $$$$ you can have them.

Talk about the store? Want weapons? Why find them or earn in game credits? Buy them for real cash. Want in game credits, they limit the amount you can buy per month but start buying now and by release you will have a fortune, unless they capped the total amount you can buy. I hope they implement that, but I doubt it.

I hope the game comes together and is as good as we all hope for SC. I am an alpha backer of ED and so far it has exceeded my expectations. Oh there are bugs to be sure, the space station vanished on me as I was about to dock. I just hovered till it reappeared and almost crashed into a wall as I was still moving but slowly. The net code is a lot better dropping out of super cruise, the delay is still to long, but now it doesn't hang and need a reboot. Usual is about 10 seconds, but at times 30. Still they add some graphic of dropping out that looks good and people won't mind it, in fact may like it taking longer.

In the end SC is promising so much and adding to it all the time, when they need to actually get things working already promised and not add even more. Also they need to stop catering to the over realistic people, a towel, fish tank, bath rooms, etc.... all cosmetic that can wait till the important parts of the game are done, but they do them first. That is wrong priorities when the game is so far behind schedule. I don't care if it doesn't take long to implement, all of them together adds up quickly. Make the game, then fine tune it and add the little perks last.

Calebe
 
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