Cool, cheers. So a lot of this is a mountain out of a mole hill.
The Star Citizen Thread v5
- Thread starter Brett C
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Cool, cheers. So a lot of this is a mountain out of a mole hill.
Since when are forum posts legally binding for backers?
Or is this an official acknowledgement that Rolan works at CIG/RSI/Foundry/whatever and is authorized to make legal statements on behalf of them?
Not really - the TOS changes are quite substantial - it basically boils down to "We might make a game sometime, and there's nothing you can do if we don't."
That is not what I signed up for - and I am not accepting the new TOS. I wish CIG all the best in making their game - but this is where we part ways and I get my money back. They have completely failed to deliver, and I am absolutely not letting them change terms on me any further than our original agreement let them.
Read the TOS instead of accusing me of anything...
The refunds part... yeah, other changes I don't know to what extent affects the previous backers, possibly the related to bans it may(almost surely) affect us.
The 18 month part has been eliminated to new backers so they possibly won't be able to ask for a refund.
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everything they say is littered with this - i think CR strongly believes that creating new names for things impresses people, and it appears to some it really does
it's not light scattering - it's advanced modelling of all light transport properties through a variety of atmospheric mediums etc
Rolan, I have checked the new terms of service and you are correct. My pledges are still covered under the TOS that they were made under. Hopefully in a day or two when this becomes common knowledge we can go back to talking about what's in 2.4 with a heavy sprinkling of freelancer controls, and years it has taken to get this broken tech demo released /s
Edit: downloading 2.4 now.
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It's in the tos extract he posted. They are bad tos for new people but not existing backers. And if existing backers are still covered by the old tos they should be able to get a refund as the delivery date has passed(I guess)
Exactly. If they in the end get the refund or not is up to CIG but according to the TOS they should.
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Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
I backed SC to a basic amount, and I've never bothered trying to get a refund, but these latest TOS will make me request one. Even if I'm not affected by them as I "pledged" previously, the new terms are enough to give me serious concern for the future delivery of anything.
Imho, this is CIG laying the ground work for non-delivery. If it survives past Q2 2017, I'll be quite frankly amazed.
Imho, this is CIG laying the ground work for non-delivery. If it survives past Q2 2017, I'll be quite frankly amazed.
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I think you mean "they get your money first, everything else comes after that. Maybe"
Once you've downloaded 2.4 and logged in - you'll be presented with the new TOS screen. It's up to you wether you click Accept or not - but if you do, you are bound under the new TOS. I'd read it very carefully, again and again.
Hundreds? try tens of thousands dude.... $15k for the full package
I'm not that worried about the TOS. No amount of TOS can circumvent law. The rules may be different but the concept is still the same as investing. I'm giving something of value to someone else with the hope that I will see a return on my investment. The only protection s I can reasonably have is against fraud. This is true at a basic level if you are trading stock, pledging, or gambling. Unless everyone at CIG is just smoke and mirrors (which I doubt because there are reports from other backers that they do indeed have all these studios and employees working) all backers are taking some risk with their money. It is the duty of anyone who invest their money to research what they are investing in. I didn't back during the kickstarter because I'm cautious and lost track of it. I started following it again in August of 2013. Even then I waited several months before pledging. I have never believed the hype and to this day have much lower expectations. Must come from being older and more cynical. If they can deliver on most of my low bar expectations it will be a game I think will be fun. If it is proven to be a scam, no amount of TOS will save anyone connected from class action lawsuits and the reputation that will go with it.
Rolan it does not effect you untill you sign the new one....If CIG asking for me&you to sign the new TOS agreement when I download 2.4 it means that they are changing the rules for us to...Otherwise it will be as you claim it is then we should be able to refuse the new TOS and still download&play the 2.4...right?But I doubt that is the case....Your obligated to the old TOS only until the moment when you ACCEPT the agreement of the new TOS....
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Slopey
Volunteer Moderator
Oh I'm not concerned with the legalities and how enforcable or otherwise it is - it's the sentiment I object to. The very wording of that TOS travesty makes me want to get as far away from CIG/RSI as I possibly can is all.
Even considering running their software on own my computer with the administrator privileges it asks for is a stretch now.
First, they demonstrated thoroughly, that they don't know what they're doing, so damaging something else by accident might be in the cards (wouldn't be the first EA game in my case, as I already had one, which broke my FFB controller).
Second under these hostile terms I could also imagine the client turning into ransomware soon, especially when money runs out. Early backers: Uninstall and request a refund. Now it's the time.
I will dare to said that from now on every"citizen"that accept this TOS will "live" under total virtual-dictatorship....We are witnessing here to a new-born era of the Gaming-Fascism!!!CR is the AH of the gaming world!!!the simmilarities between this 2 are just staggering....
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Nope. One was responsible for starting a World War and genocide; the other conned a load of gullible sci fi gamers with his monorail. No point in letting this descend into a Godwin's Law farce :/
Not exactly, for what I can read in the TOS this is simple, a direct quote from the TOS, so... it has to apply.
While you had pledge before this all those pledges are affected by the older TOS(Talking about the refund policy). So even you accepting will not change that, but ofc others parts of the TOS will affect us. They are changing the rules of other parts of this agreement like the "Rules of conduct", but at least not this part for us. That's what the TOS says and that is what should apply here(refunds).
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