The Star Citizen Thread v5

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So you are saying that Starengine didn't diverge from Cryengine.
No. Good god, man, no.

StarEngine diverged from CryEngine at 3.7
LY and CE diverged from one another at 3.8
So, because 3.7 is less that 3.8, StarEngine's changes are as compatible with CryEngine as they are with Lumberyard.

If they'd diverged at 3.7, and StarEngine was based on 3.8, then StarEngine would be based on code that wasn't the same, and there'd be problems.

If you stay with CE, or you switch to LY, taking later updates takes work because of StarEngine's differences. Which is why my quote from yesteryear about not just doing big merges.
 
Amazon Game Studios is developing a MMO using the Lumberyard engine. It's called "New World".
Just sayin'...



Dude chill out, i just directed you to a post in which Ben explains it in an easy to understand way.
Ohh I am chill no worries....I also directed you here:https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/318617/should-cig-move-to-lumberyard-game-engine/p1 and ask you what changed your mind after a year but you dodge that bullet and play on "stooge"card instead....
 
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Amazon Game Studios is developing a MMO using the Lumberyard engine. It's called "New World".
Just sayin'....
I try to avoid feeling like I'm playing the man and not the ball... New World is, by the looks of the advert on the Amazon page:

"About the Product
New World is a massively multiplayer, open-ended sandbox game that allows you to carve your own destiny with other players in a living, hostile, cursed land.
How you play, what you do, and whom you work with or against is up to you.
Live on your own amidst the supernatural terrors or join with others to build thriving civilizations.
In this evolving world that transforms with the changing of the seasons, weather, and time of day, the only limit is your own ambition.
When you register, you will become a New World Insider and receive news updates. The release date and pricing for New World have not been set.

Actually, with the bolded emphasis mine, I am beginning to see why a supporter of SC would think New World is an interesting product. The whole "We haven't got any gameplay specifics nailed down yet and we are pre-alpha, but trust us it will be great" is resonant.
 
I'm an amateur here, so take everything with a pinch of salt.

CE is not one large drill like the one they used for the channel tunnel. It is a tradesman's bag full of tools like a hammer, a hand drill, a micrometer, a chisel, several screwdrivers and spanners, etc

So if CE 3.7 had all these tools and CiG changed the micrometer and the chisel but left the rest... And LY took the 3.7 toolbag and have left it more or less alone but added some Whitworth sockets and a pair of snipe nosed pliers...

The upshot is that most of the toolbag is still the same, with a couple of additions from both sides that they need to check for interoperability?

I think it is getting fractious in here because everyone (I'll admit it was my thought), has been getting hung up on the old "50% modified" quote from Brian C?

Something largely based on CE 3.7 being flipped to work with something else largely based on CE 3.7 is nowhere near the pain of going from CE 3.7 to Unreal 4?

Just trying to calm the waters a little, although I do reserve the right to be wrong! :)
Pretty much this. LY is a changed CE, and from a functional point of view there are 3 types of changes:
Functions added
Functions taken away
Functions doing something different

Functions added isn't a problem: they maybe something you can use later (Like non-pants networking) but they not going to break something just by existing.
Functions taken away might be a problem, but it's generally not something you do unless you are really sure you don't need it: Maybe CE supports Pentium II processors and LY doesn't, that sort of thing. What I'd expect is they would go through and optimise when they're getting closer to release (whenever that is).
Functions doing something different would be a problem, but as I've said before they would have to be morons to do that because it gives LY a steeper learning curve for existing CE developers, which defeats the point of the exercise. And Amazon don't appear to be morons.

So, it's not really a problem.

What we probably do have is some duplication, with SC using CIGs pants netcode when there's much better code sitting unused in LY, but that doesn't hold up switching to LY: It just means they've wasted time and money (nothing new there then) but will have an easier job in the future.

SC has a lulzbucket full of problems, but LY isn't one of them.
 
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So Ben, you are telling me that the whole 50% CE changes to make "star engine" was ? So now Star engine is just a simple mod that can be copy pasted on any version of cry engine, whether it has modifications of its own or not ?
If this is the case, did it really took 2 years for CIG to be able to make just a simple engine mod ?

all the money spent on just a mod ?
Any codebase can be expressed as a set of differences from another one. It's what gets put in patches, it's what gets stored in version control systems.
All of CIGs changes relative to CE 3.7 can be wrapped up like that, even though there's a lot of them.
You can apply those changes to anything else that has identical code to CE 3.7.
Since LY did not make any changes until 3.8, you can apply the changes to pre-3.8 Lumberyard. Note that I don't know what Amazon will actually do with the version numbers, but there'll be a point in their versioning system that lines up with CE 3.8.
 
No. Good god, man, no.

StarEngine diverged from CryEngine at 3.7
LY and CE diverged from one another at 3.8
So, because 3.7 is less that 3.8, StarEngine's changes are as compatible with CryEngine as they are with Lumberyard. But, you just said doing this would be a ton of trouble and a ton of work ?

If they'd diverged at 3.7, and StarEngine was based on 3.8, then StarEngine would be based on code that wasn't the same, and there'd be problems.
LY 3.8> Starengine 3.7, as you said different codes means a lot of problems. But somehow this doesn't apply to LY because ?

If you stay with CE, or you switch to LY, taking later updates takes work because of StarEngine's differences. LY is an update by deffinition since it is an upgrade from CE 3.7Which is why my quote from yesteryear about not just doing big merges. this last sentence makes no sence in my eyes, someone care to translate ?
I'm even more confused. :(

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Any codebase can be expressed as a set of differences from another one. It's what gets put in patches, it's what gets stored in version control systems.
All of CIGs changes relative to CE 3.7 can be wrapped up like that, even though there's a lot of them.
You can apply those changes to anything else that has identical code to CE 3.7.
Since LY did not make any changes until 3.8, you can apply the changes to pre-3.8 Lumberyardexcept there is NO pre 3.8 for Lumberyard, as per their site LY is a fork of CE 3.8.1 and nothing before that. Note that I don't know what Amazon will actually do with the version numbers, but there'll be a point in their versioning system that lines up with CE 3.8.

I'm starting to believe that you don't know Lumberyard Ben.
 
No. Good god, man, no.

StarEngine diverged from CryEngine at 3.7
LY and CE diverged from one another at 3.8
So, because 3.7 is less that 3.8, StarEngine's changes are as compatible with CryEngine as they are with Lumberyard.

If they'd diverged at 3.7, and StarEngine was based on 3.8, then StarEngine would be based on code that wasn't the same, and there'd be problems.

If you stay with CE, or you switch to LY, taking later updates takes work because of StarEngine's differences. Which is why my quote from yesteryear about not just doing big merges.
So CIG just went "ctrl C" from Cryengine 3.7 and then "ctrl V" into Lumberyard 3.7 (legacy support in Lumberyard 3.8) bringing over all the Starengine features. If CIG want any of the Lumberyard 3.8 features that will be extra work.

Am I understanding that right?
 
I'm even more confused. :(

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I'm starting to believe that you don't know Lumberyard Ben.
Basically, 3.7 + (Monkeys pounding on keyboards) = old StarEngine
3.7 + (3.8 stuff from Crytek) + (stuff from Amazon) = Lumberyard, so
3.7 + (3.8 stuff from Crytek) + (stuff from Amazon) + (Monkeys pounding on keyboards) = new StarEngine.
the (3.8 stuff from Crytek) and the (stuff from Amazon) might not be used, but I doubt they break anything.
 
I'm even more confused. :(
Ok, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't know about version histories. Here's a thing that might help. Lumberyard isn't just a thing that got made at 3.8, it's a full history of every edit that's been made going back to... some point. Not sure how far, but well back. So no, it's not "an upgrade", it's a complete history which looks progressively more different from CryEngine after 3.8.

Ok, I made a picture...
 
Ok, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't know about version histories. Here's a thing that might help. Lumberyard isn't just a thing that got made at 3.8, it's a full history of every edit that's been made going back to... some point. Not sure how far, but well back. So no, it's not "an upgrade", it's a complete history which looks progressively more different from CryEngine after 3.8.

Ok, I made a picture...
http://i.imgur.com/w5oEBaX.png
That's some quality rendering right there. :D
 
So CIG just went "ctrl C" from Cryengine 3.7 and then "ctrl V" into Lumberyard 3.7 (legacy support in Lumberyard 3.8) bringing over all the Starengine features. If CIG want any of the Lumberyard 3.8 features that will be extra work.

Am I understanding that right?
Basically yes, except you can just go "diff CryEngine 3.7 and Lumberyard 3.7" and paste that into StarEngine.
Taking actual features requires work, I don't know if that's included in the 2 days it took. Depends what features really.

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That's some quality rendering right there. :D
Guess who got a graphics tablet for Xmas.
Guess who's not learned to use it.
 
Basically, 3.7 + (Monkeys pounding on keyboards) = old StarEngine
3.7 + (3.8 stuff from Crytek) + (stuff from Amazon) = Lumberyard, so
3.7 + (3.8 stuff from Crytek) + (stuff from Amazon) + (Monkeys pounding on keyboards) = new StarEngine.
the (3.8 stuff from Crytek) and the (stuff from Amazon) might not be used, but I doubt they break anything.
Thx for that !

But Amazon states that LY = CE 3.8.1 + amazon stuff
Ben said in RSI forum that going form starengine 3.7 to CE 3.8 was nono, but now says that it is ok.

Is a basic compatibility stuff, 3.8 might not be compatible with 3.7, anything working with 3.7 might not work in 3.8, just as a software that works on windows vista might not work on windows 7, even if Win V and Win 7 share the same core. But somehow, modifications that where made for the version 3.7 of CE can be easily ported to 3.8 ? Then why all the fuss from Ben a year ago, saying that it was not so simple ?

Anyone having a source stating that LY is made from CE 3.7 ?
 
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Thanks Ben for the drawing :D

SC dev is far from being a perfectly managed one but the scope being so big I m not surprised at all. The most important thing will be the end result. I m a backer, as an Elite player by the way, and I am not in such a hurry that I would be capable or being part of a cult, pro or anti.... I m really impressed by the hate from both sides sometimes, but there is something that I am sure of, DS is making a great free advertisement from all this and that keep me far away from what he says or think... Plus the fact that he s promising the end of the project every month and nothing of that sort happens... Even on vacation he seems obsessed by the project :/ Get a life maybe ? :/

I read this thread every day and I post rarely but I wanted to say all that. Let the devs do their job, and let s judge at the end.

namaste
 
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Thx for that !

But Amazon states that LY = CE 3.8.1 + amazon stuff
Ben said in RSI forum that going form starengine 3.7 to CE 3.8 was nono, but now says that it is ok.

Is a basic compatibility stuff, 3.8 might not be compatible with 3.7, anything working with 3.7 might not work in 3.8, just as a software that works on windows vista might not work on windows 7, even if Win V and Win 7 share the same core. But somehow, modifications that where made for the version 3.7 of CE can be easily ported to 3.8 ? Then why all the fuss from Ben a year ago, saying that it was not so simple ?

Anyone having a source stating that LY is made from CE 3.7 ?
No, it's 3.8. (but 3.8 is made from 3.7, so in that sense it is). That's why I said 3.7 + (3.8 stuff from Crytek) + (stuff from Amazon) = Lumberyard
 
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