The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Stigbob]

The thing that still rubs me in a wrong way about SC pre-alpha is how you have to buy ships with real money in order for people to test them.
Dont come and tell me "they are buyable ingame! Wait for a free flight!" ect thats absolute nonsense, if FD had pulled that stunt in the ED beta the outcry would have been enourmous. "want to fly a anaconda? Sure here give us $100 and you can fly it! And give us feedback on things not working well"

I must take issue with that the Anaconda would be in the thousand dollar bracket.

It does seem very counterproductive. Look at the ED testing method "buy everything for a credit" even people who've just reset or have only the space-shirt on their back can test any of the ships upgrades and therefore game mechanics. You get more players testing and people get to fly the big boys and even get to decide if it's worth working towards being space-rich, everyones a winner.

The SC method of locking testing behind a paywall can only actively reduce available data. I suppose it depends if you prioritize creating artificial scarcity and money grubbing or gathering data to make developmental progress.

 

[Steve O B Have]

On the plus side, for every piece of information that they provide us to measure them against, we will. Of course they disclaimered timeframes 4 times at the start of the list... it all adds up for the patient.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

I'm probably going to be lambasted for saying so but they 'seem' to be making more progress than previous years, 5 years to get there though...

I hope so*. We have gone through periods when it looked as if they were beginning to make progress before (notably when they released 2.0) and it all fizzled out again. On the balance of probability that's what will happen again, but I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised. And I have a £20 bet riding on eventually getting something playable (S42, PU or some combination of both). It's pretty much the same amount I pledged for Infinity Battlescape, which has much lower ambitions, but a much higher likelihood of delivering.

*Not that you get lambasted. The other bit.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Lol, verify? Exactly how? That is actually where the lies, smokes and mirrors etc are.

We have absolutely no mean to verify their progress!

Anyone who believe in check boxes in such an arbitrary list given by cig are fools, how do you know they aren't just making it all up?

And let's consider that all of those features were supposed to have been developed since years ago, and by their own indirect admission, the list mean they weren't capable of delivering the result on these features after years of development time... But somehow with this arbitrary list that literally created out of thin air last week, they expect us to believe they could suddenly complete feature A in day X in such short time according to the imaginary list?

Just lulz.

I think it is more the idea that if week by week they state they have completed tasks A,B,C, etc then it will be unfortunate if the rolled up patch somehow fails to deliver those tasks?

 

[milligna]

I'm a developer by the way.

Clearly not of any VR application.

Just catching up now and that VR gibberish almost made me choke on my cheesecake. I don't understand cheesecake development either.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Clearly not of any VR application.

Just catching up now and that VR gibberish almost made me choke on my cheesecake. I don't understand cheesecake development either.

Guys in the town I grew up in would go out trying to impress laydees and claim to be film producers... owing to the large polythene factory in the town!

We can all still hope for VR implementation at some point... Although as a Tartan Army fan once told me, "it isn't the despair that'll kill you, it's the hope..."

 

[GaryII]

We can all still hope for VR implementation at some point... Although as a Tartan Army fan once told me, "it isn't the despair that'll kill you, it's the hope..."

Looking at their current v3.x schedule probably only some 202X year...
But since they have "space legs" and animations that are totally incompatible with current VR tech I doubt than VR support will be in their todo list anytime soon...

 

[BurnyBurns]

Lol, verify? Exactly how? That is actually where the lies, smokes and mirrors etc are.

We are able to verify their progress by treating the SC project as a black box (at a given point in time). Backer money goes in, promises of playable content and actual playable content comes out.

The whole "we've fixed blocker A,B and C" rubbish is just eyewash. They may have, they may have not, they may have styled some minor issue to be a blocker and indeed fixed it. We can't possibly know, because the thruth is in their internal code base to which we aren't privy. But that codebase isn't worth anything, so long as it's not released. Their output, both in terms of promises and actual content is and that is measureable. Anybody banging on about how unprecedented it all is, is trying to distract from the actual output not living up to their promises, neither in scope, content, quality or timely delivery.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Lol, verify? Exactly how? That is actually where the lies, smokes and mirrors etc are.

We have absolutely no mean to verify their progress!

Anyone who believe in check boxes in such an arbitrary list given by cig are fools, how do you know they aren't just making it all up?

And let's consider that all of those features were supposed to have been developed since years ago, and by their own indirect admission, the list mean they weren't capable of delivering the result on these features after years of development time... But somehow with this arbitrary list that literally created out of thin air last week, they expect us to believe they could suddenly complete feature A in day X in such short time according to the imaginary list?

Just lulz.

2.6.x schedules were relatively reliable when it came to the completion of a feature, even if said feature was a buggy piece of refuse that would be removed from the next build, such as experiments with networking in 2.6.0 which had to be redone in further patches. In the worst case scenario CIG would have to work on a excuse why a feature which is said to be finished according to the schedule is nowhere to be seen by backers or Evocati testers. A delayed release is stilll more likely than an outright lie.

 

[Fromhell]

We can all still hope for VR implementation at some point...

for the 5 people who use VR ? They don't have any reason to waste time on this right now. Before devices aren't widespread and prices go down to 200$-300$ while getting lighter and wireless, I applaud them for skipping this nonsensical feature for later. Besides SC isn't a cockpit sitting game like ED. Your character head in ED isn't even synced up with the position of your VR. Want that kind of cheap workaround in SC? Even worse in FPS situations? No thanks.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

[video]https://www.twitch.tv/videos/136820513?t=23m09s[/video]

Here's me trying to be fair to Star Citizen again, showing WTFOsaurus "playing" the already very awesome, fun and extra special 2.6.3 version of the PTU.

It's great. Really really great just how much that dude is "enjoying" Star Citizen.

The way things are going, Star Citizen's future updates, based on this solid foundation, will be the greatest game ever made. It's a no-brainer really....









Who am I kidding?! This was hilariously predictable CIG in action!

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

for the 5 people who use VR ? They don't have any reason to waste time on this right now. Before devices aren't widespread and down to 200$-300$, I applaud them for skipping this nonsensical feature for later. Besides SC isn't a cockpit sitting game like ED. Your character head in ED isn't even synced up with the position of your VR. Want that kind of cheap workaround in SC? No thanks.

Sorry?

You do realize that to have VR in your game, you absolutely NEED to have worked it into your code from the very beginning. You absolutely NEED to have your character animations synced up with the VR motion to make it an experience that doesn't induce instant nausea.

Plus, you do realize that CIG were actively *boasting* about having VR in their game and that it would be integrated fully into Star Citizen, even though they were showing very little actual evidence for having done so.... It's only been in the last year or so, when their head guy running VR implementation left CIG, that they have started saying "VR is still an important part of SC, but it isn't a priority right now."

So yet again, why is someone coming here trying to compare one game that is not only fully released, working largely as intended, (with some bugs admittedly) and btw has one of the best implemented examples of integrating VR technology into a video game in the market currently...

...with a game that not only isn't even out of tech demo status and is looking like it won't be for many years yet, but also hasn't even come close to integrating the feature you are making a big fuss about?

 

[Ian Skippy]

for the 5 people who use VR ? They don't have any reason to waste time on this right now. Before devices aren't widespread and prices go down to 200$-300$ while getting lighter and wireless, I applaud them for skipping this nonsensical feature for later. Besides SC isn't a cockpit sitting game like ED. Your character head in ED isn't even synced up with the position of your VR. Want that kind of cheap workaround in SC? Even worse in FPS situations? No thanks.

You applaud them breaking funding goal promises? Oh, the new line of VR headsets are aimed at $300 and will release q3 this year, with higher resolutions. No need to play down VR, its a massive development and SC is justvlagging behind. They will not have meanibgful VR because they didnt plan well and cant crowbar it back in.

 

[Zetta]

for the 5 people who use VR ? They don't have any reason to waste time on this right now. Before devices aren't widespread and prices go down to 200$-300$ while getting lighter and wireless, I applaud them for skipping this nonsensical feature for later. Besides SC isn't a cockpit sitting game like ED. Your character head in ED isn't even synced up with the position of your VR. Want that kind of cheap workaround in SC? Even worse in FPS situations? No thanks.

In all fairness it is worse than that, look at the track IR implementation and the way your head moves inside the helmet so that it obstructs your view....

I think the argument here is that shoehorning VR into a game at a later date is not the best of ways to implement it, a good VR game is one that is designed with it in mind. The pitch was always that they were going to support all of these wonderful pieces of tech, with hindsight the game was pitched as everything to all men and slowly but surely they are walking back on those things.

 

[Tippis]

Supporting VR means fewer fidelimations.
Fewer fidelimations means less reason to spend time in a mocap studo.
Less time in a mocap studio makes Homer something something.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

for the 5 people who use VR ?

I think you badly underestimate how many people have VR.

 

[LeSabre]

In all fairness it is worse than that, look at the track IR implementation and the way your head moves inside the helmet so that it obstructs your view....

I think the argument here is that shoehorning VR into a game at a later date is not the best of ways to implement it, a good VR game is one that is designed with it in mind. The pitch was always that they were going to support all of these wonderful pieces of tech, with hindsight the game was pitched as everything to all men and slowly but surely they are walking back on those things.

The character model and associated frame/skeleton of the chars (I say plural but they still have very limited char models) in SC will need a complete rebuild to enable VR to work correctly due to the helmet and head and view camera being seperate entities independant of each other and dependant on canned animations, this will be a major blocker as it will mean none of the mo-cap movements the char makes (even just stationary stance sway) will be remotely compatable with VR. And then there's the "immersion" animations that will disjoint what the player is forced to see compared to where they move their head to look at, it's all a bit sea sickness giving at the moment even without VR or TrackIR.

They've not shown any interest in actually building in future support for VR and if anything, the way it works at the moment suggest they have no intention at all of supporting it. Unless of course CR really wants an excuse to bin a lot of mo-cap data and most of the player animation cycles.

(You need a bonus Brett, nice clean up )

 

[Tippis]

They've not shown any interest in actually building in future support for VR and if anything, the way it works at the moment suggest they have no intention at all of supporting it. Unless of course CR really wants an excuse to bin a lot of mo-cap data and most of the player animation cycles.

Oh snap. I have to revise the previous line of logic.

Supporting VR means fewer fidelimations.
Fewer fidelimations means more reason to spend time in a mocap studo to make sure every movement exists with or without fidelimations enabled.
More time in a mocap studio makes Homer something something.

This definitely explains why VR is a priority, just not yet.

 

[ianw]

If they were to add VR later would that mean redoing mocap?

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Interesting news:

CIG has added a new RenderTarget refractor to Star Citizen 3.0, which will see the game saving a massive 50% in video memory usage. DSOGaming reports that Star Citizen 3.0 includes "Area Lights with proper shadowing, new Light Controller for runtime light switches, highly optimized vertex and position format for all geometry, as well as Dynamic Physics Grid to support sparse space areas vs. dense areas like space stations".

Read more: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57167/star-citizen-3-50-vram-usage-reduction-much-more/index.html
http://www.game-debate.com/news/22744/star-citizens-3-0-update-halves-vram-usage-paves-way-for-persistent-universe