The Star Citizen Thread v5

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The majority of the minority always wins!!! [noob]

Knowles2 said "the majority here" aka commentators on this thread.

As I think I posted along the same lines that "if you can't show it, you don't know it". Until there's actual gameplay all that there is is speculation. This is what skeptics are saying: "please prove us wrong!" I'm a skeptic, and would happily eat the largest portion of humble pie you can serve if SC turns out to be a game-changer. Unfortunately, on current publicly available evidence, I am not holding my breath.

Roll on Gamescon.
 
Unlike Derek I think the guy's plan was conning people right from the beginning. Order a nifty CryEngine trailer, collect as much money as possible, develop some crappy BBB-grade game as a side-project while diverting money to shell companies and get right back into Hollywood.

The reason, why it didn't work as originally intended: He completely underestimated the effort (financial and management-wise) it takes to make a 2010s AAA game. Which is displayed by his talk about 1 crowdfunding dollar equalling 4 publisher dollars. He got away with WC in the 90s, because then you could still do a decent A-grade game ("AAA" didn't exist yet) with just two people. He has no clue about contemporary game development and that is the reason why his original plan failed. I'm convinced he never intended to spend most of the money on actual game development. He tried to get away by selling a low-budget game with high polygon count as "AAA" and failed. Not only because he doesn't know what actually makes a game AAA, but he even failed on building a proper low-budget game. So the result is now Star Citizen Alpha 2.4.

I don't know, I think Hanlon's razor applies. But I do agree that he may have thought making the game wouldn't be so hard, so when the huge amounts of money came in he thought "oh great, better quality of life for us!" and began spending it irresponsibly without realizing thrift was the order of the day.

Another reason I don't think he conned from the start is the huge amount of Imaginarium/mocap he's been doing. If he wanted to curl out a crappy B-game and use the rest of the funds to springboard back into Hollywood he wouldn't be so hung-up on getting Gary Oldman et al for SQ42, unless that itself is the notional springboard... but I doubt it. Even he would surely see that directing an ingame movie wouldn't nearly get the kind of Hollywood exposure that an actual film would get for the same (?) money.
 
HE did not stop in that 19 million dollars letter. He made sure to end the doubts in the 20 million dollars letter:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

"There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. "
"we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state."
"so you should look at the stretch goals as a window into the future of functionality and content additions we plan for the live game."

Well... curiously, his sense of logic, very convenient for that time, shown a twist later:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14839-Letter-From-The-Chairman

"Will it take longer to deliver all this? Of course! When the scope changes, the amount of time it will take to deliver all the features naturally increases. This is something we are acutely aware of. How do we balance the mutually conflicting wants of the community; to have this hugely ambitious game, but not wait forever for it?
Our answer is to embrace open development and share features and functionality that will go into the final game before everything is completed."
- on July 2015.

And, well... since I brought that letter, let's review another interesting quotes of one year ago:

"Then we’re rolling out aspects of the Persistent Universe: first there will be just planet side environments to explore, but not long after you’ll be able to transition to space and fly to another destination, and then after that to another system." - Chris Roberts - ONE YEAR ago! 100+ million dollars project (5 times what he had, more than 16 times the money that he said to people that would be enough to realize all the dreams )!
-> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/351977 "Six million was what it would take us to build the game we were imagining with all the bells and whistles we wanted included."

"Is ‘feature creep’ a worry? Sure… it’s always a worry, and we are well aware of it. However, building the game to the stretch goals embraced and endorsed by the community is not feature creep! "

"Arena Commander, which is still evolving, is a better looking and playing game than a lot of finished games out there. "

"You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers." - oh yeah... they are sooo terrified.

"Perhaps we stressed the point a little too strongly as suddenly gaming websites were running with the headline, “Star Citizen FPS delayed indefinitely!” which was unfortunate as this phrase is usually a euphemism for a project being put on indefinite hold or canceled. Don’t worry, it’s not! We’re hard at work on the FPS – as you can see from our update on Fridayand you will have it in your hands sooner rather than later.

"The original crowd funding goal was to raise enough money to deliver regular community updates, access to the multiplayer dogfighting alpha and a single player campaign called Squadron 42. You can see the first goal, which was achieved on 25th of October 2012 here. " - ha! trying to deceive people here...

This one is very special. He posted a link of a page that did not exist in the time of the original crowd funding campaign. And, in the original crowfunding goal it was never described that the objective was just Squadron 42, a dogfighting alpha and community updates. In fact, Squadron 42 had only 2 mentions (phrases) in a big missive that described the project and still can be read today in the KS page. It was no different in their own RSI page of that time. And Roberts was very clear about how that was not about "Squadron 42" when saying things like this one in their advertising:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description


"The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta."


Now, the point is... the guy has been proven again and again as a liar. And if it was not proven for some here before, its proven now. And these are just a few examples of his standard practice. Now I let the reader decide if its really valid to support someone that, besides showing his incompetence as a leader, CEO, manager/game designer in all his decisions, tying the project to a certain doom, has been constantly lying and trying to deceive people about the reality and progress of the project, so as breaking promises for the sake of money, and giving any value to whatever they show or say in a next letter, event, show, while in parallel a new expensive JPEG sale is offered.

This is also good to know that what CR considers when he make claims of BDSSE or what is good or not. As you was able to see, he considers Arena Commander better than complete games out there. In fact he allowed a member of CIG share a funny animation in one of their shows, stating that AC is already the BDSSE, claiming to be superior even to Wing Commander. And he tried to claim that already delivered many of his promises and "Smashed" many stretch goals already.

And now you are REALLY informed about Star Citizen. Pledging for this is extremely not advised.

Certainly at this point. This has turned into Digital Anvil 2.0. History doesn't repeat itself, but man it is sure rhyming at the moment. I don't think CR is capable of delegating, which is necessary to be a good manager. You've got to delegate, delegate, delegate until it hurts and then delegate some more. He seems to be incapable of doing that. It seems as though development seemed to grind to a halt last year as he was off to England to do all the MoCap/movie production stuff as though he had to sign off on everything and couldn't do both at the same time.

Thing is this happened before. Instead of working on Freelancer he instead made the Wing Commander movie using resources from Digital Anvil to do the 3D CGI work for the film. I know there has been accusations that he even spent money allocated for the production of Freelancer on making the movie. Not sure how true that is, but there were some interesting remarks made from his business partner who left the company circa 1998 who said something along the lines of "The company has lost sight of what it was supposed to be doing".

From the leaks we've gotten from people who has been fired or left the company seems consistent on he has to micromanage the 9th detail. It's interesting that when shown in 1999, Freelancer's graphics were pushing the edge of start of the art. By the time the game was actually released in 2003 the graphics were considered mediocre at best. But honestly, people will forgive a few less polygons if gameplay is solid. Look at the rise of these "retro" games the past few years. Of all the things, art assets can be improved down the line.
 
Can we have separate "Star Citizen Drama" and "Star Citizen News" threads?

If it's even possible to untangle them anymore. :/

The only news currently coming out of CIG is the drama im afraid. The TOS updates, the plagiarism of stock footage etc..
those things are news worthy.
If you tak about the progress news. Then we would be discussing about clothes shopping ... There just isnt a lot to discuss from that point of view.
2.5 should bring pirate station. But even that doesnt seem to generate a lot of discussion. Mostly because its just 1 station in 1 system. Secondly dev team is focusing bringing shops there which in my opinion is highly unnecessary
What about Star Marine. It should be coming for gamescom? well COD:IW just blew the floor with its trailer and 0g combat, so why exactly are they focusing bringing star marine back? Didnt Chris already say that we already had star marine.
just fyi star marine is wasted resources now.

They should instead showcase sq42 which is coming this year, last year and year before it as well.
 
I don't know, I think Hanlon's razor applies. But I do agree that he may have thought making the game wouldn't be so hard, so when the huge amounts of money came in he thought "oh great, better quality of life for us!" and began spending it irresponsibly without realizing thrift was the order of the day.

This. He fell into a trap I've seen countless startups fall into over the years. They get several million dollars in VC money and suddenly they go from driving a beat up Mazda to a shiny new BMW, throwing lavish parties, and 18 months later the product is still losing money and they've burned through the cash. The start up's I've started or worked for that have been successful managed their expenses. We had a $30 coffee maker not a $20,000 coffee maker. We set up in cheaper office space off the beaten path. We weren't selling retail and we didn't need people to see signage for our business. So we could go off a side street where the cost was 30% what it was for "prime office space".

2 years ago I was talking with someone who works for Activision out in LA what the scuttlebutt was around the water cooler when it came to SC & CIG. The first thing out of his mouth was the fact that their old offices were in some of the most expensive real estate in LA. Now some claim that he got a discount at the time because was buddy-buddy with the property owner or something like that, but when you have a company like CIG you don't necessarily need Class-A office space. As he said, they could go 5 miles down the road and get twice the square footage at 2/3rds the cost. Granted I understand that 5 miles in LA could be a 2 hour commute sometimes. However it was interesting to see that they moved earlier this year. Official it was because they had outgrown their previous location, which talking to people who have been there is absolutely true, but my understanding is that the rent is also cheaper where they moved.
 
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jcrg99

Banned
The only news currently coming out of CIG is the drama im afraid. The TOS updates, the plagiarism of stock footage etc..
those things are news worthy.
If you tak about the progress news. Then we would be discussing about clothes shopping ...

so... Let's talk about them...

Capture.jpg
 
The only news currently coming out of CIG is the drama im afraid. The TOS updates, the plagiarism of stock footage etc..
those things are news worthy.
If you tak about the progress news. Then we would be discussing about clothes shopping ... There just isnt a lot to discuss from that point of view.
2.5 should bring pirate station. But even that doesnt seem to generate a lot of discussion. Mostly because its just 1 station in 1 system. Secondly dev team is focusing bringing shops there which in my opinion is highly unnecessary
What about Star Marine. It should be coming for gamescom? well COD:IW just blew the floor with its trailer and 0g combat, so why exactly are they focusing bringing star marine back? Didnt Chris already say that we already had star marine.
just fyi star marine is wasted resources now.

They should instead showcase sq42 which is coming this year, last year and year before it as well.

Technically what they did wasn't plagiarism, it is straight up Copyright Infringement.
 
Courtesy of G0rf on the SA thread:

Chris Roberts and Sean Tracy are slated to speak later this week, and backers once again have visions of Star Marine dancing in their heads.

On that note:

Curious rumors surfaced on The Captain's Table about the mysterious disappearance of Star Marine...
quote:

"I know exactly why FPS got destroyed, I've talked to people within CIG. What happened was, I think it was PAX East. They were actually moving the computers over there, all of the FPS animations totally poo poo the bed on them. All of the FPS animations, they were supposed to have a live booth of Star Marine. The animations all poo poo the bed, the characters were all T-Posed. The only animations that worked were zero-G, so the only thing they could do was Sataball, because you can fake a zero-g animation. So the only thing they could show and have people play was Sataball. And when all of that happened they took the chance to rethink a lot of things that they were supposed to do...

...I didn't ask for specifics on who's fault it was, I didn't want to know because I didn't want to be tempted to tell. But I know it was a mix of things, it wasn't just IllFonic, it wasn't just some animator in Santa Monica. It was a whole range of things that went wrong at the same time."

---

Two takes on Zero-Gravity Gameplay:

Z5anoZWXIUqFa.gif
SR5O1Jh614wmY.gif


---

I am excited for this week's Star Marine update.


So, what do you make of that guys and girls?

Because after listening to that, I have to say that whole "the FPS animations all borked because of some computer move" excuse that the guy apparently heard from CIG staff he talked to, sounded as weak as all get out.

Hmm, similar to the "oh we weren't actually going to E3 really guys. We cancelled 'weeks' ago because we are so mega-super-duper busy and stuff" guff that was trotted out a week before E3 this year...
 
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Now some claim that he got a discount at the time because was buddy-buddy with the property owner or something like that, but when you have a company like CIG you don't necessarily need Class-A office space.

As an aside, some also claim that somehow all the expensive restoration furniture they have was brought in by an enthusiastic employee who owned it all already
 
Thing is this happened before. Instead of working on Freelancer he instead made the Wing Commander movie using resources from Digital Anvil to do the 3D CGI work for the film. I know there has been accusations that he even spent money allocated for the production of Freelancer on making the movie. Not sure how true that is, but there were some interesting remarks made from his business partner who left the company circa 1998 who said something along the lines of "The company has lost sight of what it was supposed to be doing".
Right on the money. I think he believed he could pull off something like that with Star Citizen/Squadron 42 again. But unlike Wing Commander (1999) and Freelancer, which both got released, the 2012-2014 con derailed somewhere. I also think the initial plan was to fleece VC investors, because the Kickstarter originally was just for demonstrating interest, not get fully funded by backers.
 
As an aside, some also claim that somehow all the expensive restoration furniture they have was brought in by an enthusiastic employee who owned it all already

The other story is that they took over the lease for a company that went through chapter 11 and they had just left the furniture in the office in Austin and it was there. I looked at that RH desk WMH used to use. I'd love to have it in my home office, but then I saw the $3400 (IIRC) price tag and went: "Nope". Maybe if I see a set at an estate sale or something someday...
 
Right on the money. I think he believed he could pull off something like that with Star Citizen/Squadron 42 again. But unlike Wing Commander (1999) and Freelancer, which both got released, the 2012-2014 con derailed somewhere. I also think the initial plan was to fleece VC investors, because the Kickstarter originally was just for demonstrating interest, not get fully funded by backers.

Only thing that doesn't make sense if it was a long con to begin with would be why hire 300+ people? If your goal was to make off with as much money as possible they would have stuck with a team of 30 - 50. Much lower overhead. I'm oddly enough with Derek in so far as I don't think it started out as a con. I still don't think it's strictly a con, but could very well be bordering on it if they are continuing to take in funds knowing full and well they don't intend to deliver at this point.

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Player fails to use english that makes any sense. Timeout issued to the imajinority. :D

4525c85049a63530c9647895678fa977.jpg
 
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