The Star Citizen Thread v5

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I think the point is that the ship should not be finished. That work should not have been done yet. You can design and build a really fantastic ship, but If the mechanics of the game it will be in have not been done you will probably end up with a fantastic ship that doesn't work in the game so will end up having to re-do it anyway. All the time, effort and money you spent on that ship now waisted.

Hmm, yea, that I agree with.

Considering that they created concepts, gave them X cargo values, recalculated them TWICE even for unfinished models like the BMM.

- Create mechanics
- Create ship blueprints with the correct scale
- Assign cargo values that fits the blueprints
- Make ships and finalize mechanics

Not to mention that ships right now fluctuate in size until finished just to FIT the modules OR the intended role.
 
Well, there is always the comedy value.

Also, not sure about Frank, but i don't dislike SC. The developer though... well, i think the problems with the project are being caused by the lead of the company. The devs themselves i'm sure are largely hardworking individuals.

Much how I feel about it. CR and the stuff he says along with the "CIG can do no wrong" fans are the questionable bits of this project. The proprosed premise was good, just a shame that the wannabe rockstar let the adulation go to his head.
 
Much how I feel about it. CR and the stuff he says along with the "CIG can do no wrong" fans are the questionable bits of this project. The proprosed premise was good, just a shame that the wannabe rockstar let the adulation go to his head.

Well, at least Erin has had a steady stream of Lego games released so it's at least better HE holds the reins for that part.
 
So you don't play Elite anymore? I find that if I've had enough of a game I stop playing it and visiting its forums. Exactly what is it you find so fascinating about Elite that you are still here posting?[/QUOTE

Maybe the title of the thread has something to do with people who are interested in SC being here

I will look at the SC forums to see if there is a thread about Elite and see if any non SC people are in there.

To be fair I rarely log into SC, I'm waiting to see if 3.0 is any good. But even when I'm playing Elite I am in a discord chat that is SC based simply because I like the guys who are very funny. So maybe we are just all, different embrace the difference brother

Nope, the Elite Thread is locked behind a paywall. So the only way to post in it is because you payed CIG money.
 
Well, there is always the comedy value.

Also, not sure about Frank, but i don't dislike SC. The developer though... well, i think the problems with the project are being caused by the lead of the company. The devs themselves i'm sure are largely hardworking individuals.

Danny, auntie answered your for me, although I have to say that my interest lies more with Squadron 42 than with the PU. I'd love to play through a very story-led space opera campaign. It would be a different experience than the one I look for from Elite.

There are obviously a lot of talented people working on Star Citizen, and it's a real shame about all the controversies that have dogged this game's development.
 
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Danny, auntie answered your for me, although I have to say that my interest lies more with Squadron 42 than with the PU. I'd love to play through a very story-led space opera campaign. It would be a different experience than the one I look for from Elite.
My plan would be to play through SQ42 and then take a look at the MMO side of things. How long can you go crossing fingers and toes until you end up with some incurable ailment of the appendages?
 
OP has deleted their initial post now.

Answers are not surprising. Every dev in my company who has previously worked for a gaming company cited the same reasons for leaving. Crunch time and salary. They all went into game development thinking it would be wonderful, but the reality is, for many gaming companies, they are badly mismanaged and make horrible demands on employees in terms of work/life balance. I'm sure there are good game companies out there, but i doubt CIG is one. As others noted, its not a company where there is a reasonable amount of risk if you are looking to get stable employment. I can see juniors jumping at the chance, not so much seniors.

I read something on this (game programmers oppression) many years ago. And it was pretty dismal how some where treated.

As for the time line for SC being finished .... I've heard 2017, 2018, & 2019. So pick one and see if you win. I may invest in the game simply because they keep going up on their packages. $35 to $45 while I've been following it. If I loose, well I've lost much more on other schemes.

Chief
 

That's hilarious.

syndrome-incredibles-when-everyones-super-no-one-is.jpg
 
I agree with a lot of the above points.

Even if there were no other red flags with the project, selling pre-order concepts at huge price is, for me, kinda dodgy. CIG's blatant play to the completionist & emotional manipulation is scummy. This is my personal opinion, and although there is nothing illegal about this it means that they won't be getting any of my money any time soon.

I feel bad for people who have spent a large quantity of cash on the project, but as long as CIG are honouring refunds (as is their legal requirement in some markets) then there's not much else that can be held against them in any formal sense.

If (or when) the project folds that's when things get interesting with the lawyers - especially if questions get asked about when insiders knew that they wouldn't be able to deliver on promises and still asked for money.
 
I read something on this (game programmers oppression) many years ago. And it was pretty dismal how some where treated.

As for the time line for SC being finished .... I've heard 2017, 2018, & 2019. So pick one and see if you win. I may invest in the game simply because they keep going up on their packages. $35 to $45 while I've been following it. If I loose, well I've lost much more on other schemes.

Chief

Wait for a free fly weekend and see what you think would be my advice. I believe other suggested same thing when you asked about this some time ago. They do quite a few of these weekends.
 

That, at least, is just a normal game dev issue. It's an extremely important issue to solve, and in the current unfinished state of the "game" how effective CIG will be at achieving a harmony between all of these ships they want to include. And of course everyone picks a ship and demands that it be elevated above all the rest. That happens just as often in Elite. I'd love the python to have more teeth and turning-rate. I wish they'd make the AspX the farthest reaching ship in the game. I'd love the T9... well you get my point.

The real question lies in CIGs ability to avoid obsoleting someone's expensive cash-paid ship before it's even released. Some ships are on their 3rd or 4th rework I guess? If they hadn't been selling these ships, maybe they could have dropped a pointless design when. Better one was created.
 
Boo! Hiss!



They're called saplings. You obviously know nothing about forestry development. Even Minecraft got it right, sheesh.

Yeah but unlike in minecraft these saplings thirst for money. I always dreamd of money growing on trees...not trees growing because of it. They should have tried water from the start. :p
 

jcrg99

Banned
I agree with a lot of the above points.

Even if there were no other red flags with the project, selling pre-order concepts at huge price is, for me, kinda dodgy. CIG's blatant play to the completionist & emotional manipulation is scummy. This is my personal opinion, and although there is nothing illegal about this it means that they won't be getting any of my money any time soon.

I feel bad for people who have spent a large quantity of cash on the project, but as long as CIG are honouring refunds (as is their legal requirement in some markets) then there's not much else that can be held against them in any formal sense.

If (or when) the project folds that's when things get interesting with the lawyers - especially if questions get asked about when insiders knew that they wouldn't be able to deliver on promises and still asked for money.

There is a lot of illegal things going on with this crowdfunding campaign from the start. The only reason that RSI continues is because nobody brought them to a court of law so far. In the moment that such thing happens, all the illegal stuff that they already did, and many think that "it's normal", will be just clarified to the general public that were actually illegal.
 
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There is a lot of illegal things going on with this crowdfunding campaign from the start. The only reason that RSI continues is because nobody brought them to a court of law so far. In the moment that such thing happens, all the illegal stuff that they already did, and many think that "it's normal", will be just clarified to the general public that were actually illegal.

I m not even sure they could be brought before court on criminal charges. Too early for that. As late as they are its still "in development" and as far as progress goes, thats subjective, depending on who you listen to. People can apply for refunds which CiG grants thats about the maximum they can do. In order for a court trial to become possible Star Citizen needs to be released and fail on all accounts or collapse and stop development. And it looks like this scenario is some time away depending on how much more money is thrown into the flames. Even then, the only thing that a trial could possible achieve is to proof its been a since 2014 and (hopefully) releasing more information to the public. There wont be any money to get back at that point so you ll have a lot of heartbroken people who are tuff out of luck as far as compensation goes and all the people pointing fingers laughing "I told you so".

Well if theres going to be a book about all this I d probably buy it :)
 

jcrg99

Banned
I m not even sure they could be brought before court on criminal charges.
I am not talking about criminal charges. But, that could be uncovered during a lawsuit (maybe). But probably an usual consumer case would do a lot of harm to them, regardless supposed "criminal" activities.

As late as they are its still "in development" and as far as progress goes, thats subjective, depending on who you listen to.
That is a theory very simple to destroy. It's easy to prove that RSI makes more money by false advertising and not delivering or under-delivering. All that you need is to argue this.


People can apply for refunds which CiG grants thats about the maximum they can do.
Actually, people are been persistent to get their refunds. It's not like RSI give the refunds at the first moment. They pretend that they don't need to. A lawsuit could be put in place considering that the company has this standard that does not affect only you, as a consumer "asking for a refund" but many other consumers... meaning... the risk of a continuous consumer scam (which actually is what has been happening).

In order for a court trial to become possible Star Citizen needs to be released and fail on all accounts or collapse and stop development.
And it looks like this scenario is some time away depending on how much more money is thrown into the flames. Even then, the only thing that a trial could possible achieve is to proof its been a since 2014 and (hopefully) releasing more information to the public. There wont be any money to get back at that point so you ll have a lot of heartbroken people who are tuff out of luck as far as compensation goes and all the people pointing fingers laughing "I told you so".
This is the same sort of ignorance that has been wide-spread just as was spread that RSI/CIG shouldn't need to give to people refunds, or the notion that they did not promise to share their books.
Its a false and wrong notion and I am impressed to see that people really believe on this, because, seriously... with a little of logic and basic argument you destroy this notion very very easily.
The argument that I already brought previusly, already kills this idea that they need to "stop" and only then, a court trial would become possible. Once again, it's very easy to demosntrate that by NOT releasing the product and keeping a "show", they made and make more money of what could be expected if launching a playable/working/originally promised game (specially because they repeatedly demonstrated not been capable of releasing anything "working").
At the moment that they claim "but.. but... we are good because we share information, we are not letting people without communication", the half-brain trainee lawyer simply say: "Ok, but do you know, your honor, that all this information is not shared "for free" and actually, besides the constant propaganda presented - and here's the proof that it was just propaganda - for example, fake demos tied to strong ship sales that never realized, promises of 'soon' releases never coming out or just years later - these shows are actually PAID by backers to exist by what they call subscriptions, here is the confirmation of themselves, saying all that time that such shows of what they call "sharing information", but its more like bogus info to keep people busy and watching what the news things they are selling, are only possible due these subscriptions"... see?

In fact, even if they deliver the game (already a certainty that will be missing many many features, as we know today, because THEY already have been saying this), a court trial not just IS possible but have ALL chances to lead them to pay strong penalties (yes, because, basically, they went too far and have no SERIOUS defense... judges are not idiots like gamers and don't care with 'vision'.

tl;dr The point is... the scam going here is EXACTLY this one of "pretending" that is advancing focused to deliver the promised product, but in fact, doing everything possible to delay that point.... and this EXTREMELY EASY to prove today!

To be fair you just need to say: "Ok judge... here's this project. They got money from people and it has a estimated delivery date. Now, the project has NO estimated delivery date"... end of story. The rest is just putting more "scamming" elements to the cake to make the judge ask for more things, like they been required to share the books, etc. Actually, some people could also go to a court, NOT asking for refunds, for example, but requiring them to share the books, as promised, and because there are a lot of evidences that lead people to believe, with reason, that something strange is going on. There are enough evidences out there that would make a judge to require them to share. Some of us know how this industry works, and shady companies like RSI behave and act... and basically, in the end of the day, that would be the end of this project.
 
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